Charms and repetition of content

90 Tauren Hunter
13155
19/12/2012 16:51Posted by Draztal
charm are mandatory if you want to be up to par, if you're lucky you get 3 extra items per week


They aren't mandatory though. You can raid just fine without them. Yes, you won't gear as fast (assuming you get items from them relatively often), but it's not going to impact your character in a negative way, other than *perhaps* missing an upgrade (since you don't even have the guarantee you'll get one through the charms).


The only shiny thing i normally get from the extra roll is gold.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
11285
20/12/2012 13:44Posted by Crimínal
So what are you saying now? what kind of !!@@!! is this? killing world boss getting gold over and over again is not fun at all.. After very sha kill i see ppl in chat saysing they get an item which they dont even need. and i look at my char..i could have use'd that item.


Im saying the loot is random...?! and this "!@#$" is actually really getting old, just because you see someone else with lootziez doesnt mean you should get it to... ITS RANDOMMM

Loot is personally so I also dont get why you compare yourself with someone else who got loot

Also you saying that you killed it over and over is quite a laugh, you only killed it 3 times, ive heared people who killed it like 10 times and no loot,, cry for them first pls..
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90 Pandaren Hunter
11285
20/12/2012 14:01Posted by Crimínal
nobody is crying


You are actually by saying you should get loot because you killed Sha 3 times... >.<

20/12/2012 14:11Posted by Muktahl
And if they added a way to select for what tree you would be able to receive loot before queuing without having to spec that tree I would call it damn near perfect.


They should implement this indeed, I also really like what they did with the Personal Loot thingy, its just that if I'm on my Pala would love to have a feature to gear for OS indeed since MS is obv better geared and I dont want to bother ppl by my crappy gear of my OS. I also wouldnt mind if they didnt tbh (pref if they do ofc) since im allready glad its not a ninja fest for your friends anymore like in Cata
Edited by Joan on 20/12/2012 14:46 GMT
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No, All we want is:

Remove dailys.
Give us tabards to get rep
Gain 2 charms every bg/instance u do.
=
profitttt?

Playing a game is for fun. So u forget rl and enjoy the game with friends.
Unfortunately some ppl see it as full time job.


So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).

Also, there're other methods to increase certain reputations if you truly don't want to do dailies (Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Tillers (for individual friendships), Nat Pagle (of the Anglers) and Order of the Cloud Serpent).

But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

EDIT: Also, edited the thread title for clarity about what it's being talked here, rather than an obscure (and against the Code of Conduct) "Blue post says".
Edited by Draztal on 20/12/2012 16:14 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
17815
Although I like the method of the dailies in MoP, I think it has been overdone. Every faction is dailies, apart from Lorewalkers. All I do is complete dailies, and afterwards I feel too burnt out to do anything but a few pet battles. Even though the double rep at revered part is put in, it's still all dailies. So I feel no need to enter a dungeon. VP can also be earned while earning rep.

What I disliked about Cata was that all I could do was go about archaeology digsites between instance queues. I stopped doing dailies the moment I could buy a tabard, which sorta would not work with the MoP system. Imagine all the awesome changing dailies you'd never see because of it? A pity, really.

So my opinion and suggestion would be to allow a bit of both.

For example:
Allow tabards for instances -capped at a certain reputation level-, allowing people to go do some dailies after, say, revered?
Or allow tabard only after revered, so people can stop doing dailies after that milestone?
Or allow tabards only for certain factions, and not others, so you can do a bit of both, if you want all factions?
Or, this is a tricky solution, and a bit of a personal dream: allowing people to choose one faction to 'champion', for which they can earn reputation in dungeons. That could reset on a weekly basis, or simply be so until they finish that reputation completely and move on to another.

Don't get me wrong, I am nearly done with all reputations at the moment on my main, so I am not saying this out of 'lazy' behavior. I'm merely expressing my concerns and giving ideas that might also make MoP more alt-friendly.
As for the tokens, allow them to be earned the way VP is? 1-5 at the end of each instance, for example. It's not needed, but a little extra that once again draws all attention of the game to dailies. (even if you put them in pet battles, it'll force people towards more dailies)

By the way, this is all personal opinion, please do not assume it is fact in any way, shape or form. Thank you.
Edited by Eppon on 20/12/2012 15:07 GMT
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90 Human Death Knight
16920
20/12/2012 14:11Posted by Muktahl
And if they added a way to select for what tree you would be able to receive loot before queuing without having to spec that tree I would call it damn near perfect.


I would love to see this as well. Right now im doing LFR just to hit the valor cap since i hardly need gear for my MS anymore, however my OS would greatly benefict from some drops :D

And Btw im already exalted with every faction from MOP and i still do a couple of dailies almost everyday just so i dont simply idle waiting for queues to pop like it was during cata. It is very healthy for my pockets as well :P

Simply put I would hate to go back to the Cata model of rep and gear progression, that imo was the most boring one of all since the start of the game :P

I don't mind if rep is given on dungeons, so long as it is done like it was on tbc, where certain dungeons would give rep to a certain faction and wouldn't give that much neither. just no more tabards.
Edited by Darknuno on 20/12/2012 15:12 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9155
No, All we want is:

Remove dailys.
Give us tabards to get rep
Gain 2 charms every bg/instance u do.
=
profitttt?

Playing a game is for fun. So u forget rl and enjoy the game with friends.
Unfortunately some ppl see it as full time job.


So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).

Also, there're other methods to increase certain reputations if you truly don't want to do dailies (Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Tillers (for individual friendships), Anglers and Order of the Cloud Serpent).

But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

EDIT: Also, edited the thread title for clarity about what it's being talked here, rather than an obscure (and against the Code of Conduct) "Blue post says".


Yep, that player is me. I hate dungeons passionately. I don't care about raids. But I have my dailies and I can choose which ones I want to do today or tomorrow. Plus I have my awesome guild chat...
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90 Night Elf Druid
15840
And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).

So how about the players that don't like to do dailies ad nauseam? I fully respect that there are people that don't like dungeons and that dailies have proved their worth, but it's rather annoying that something that's so beneficial for raiding as the good luck charms are is only available through dailies. It may not be forcing players to do dailies at gunpoint but social pressure to gear up your character as fast as you can for your guild or raid team almost is just as bad. It may not be mandatory, but it feels that way.
Also, there're other methods to increase certain reputations if you truly don't want to do dailies (Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Tillers (for individual friendships), Anglers and Order of the Cloud Serpent).

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? The only alternative way to get rep for GL I can think of is the key to a chest in Guo-Lai halls, which you can farm most efficiently by doing dailies. Also, it would take way, way longer. Alternative rep gaining for Klaxxi would be limited to doing normal quests, and I don't see how normal quests are much better or different than dailies. The Anglers only have dailies and the Cloud Serpents only alternative is farming eggs that were severely overfarmed when everyone was doing them and still would be horribly slow right now.

So what are these alternatives you speak of? Would love to know as apparently I "have to" get GL rep up to revered and AC rep up to exalted to get the bag pattern on an alt even though I already spent hours and hours gaining these reputations on my main by doing dailies I did not want to do.

But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

EDIT: Also, edited the thread title for clarity about what it's being talked here, rather than an obscure (and against the Code of Conduct) "Blue post says".[/quote]
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90 Troll Hunter
17285
20/12/2012 14:47Posted by Draztal
But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?


You mean like raiders are forces to do Dailies for Elder charms and Reputation?

Raiding rewards : Best gear in game (heavy RNG) and Valor points

Dungeon rewards: Blue gear (useless 1 week after 90), Justice points (useless 2 weeks after 9), Valor points (less than raiding, dailies)

Dailies rewards: Reputation (unlocks epic gear that softens RNG), Elder charms (that softens RNG), Valor points ( 2nd quickest way to farm)

From my experience its the Dungeons that are neglected lately. They became useless for my chars mere days after i hit 90. While i still do daily chores for charms and epic items.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
11285
There indeed not mandatory and what people are saying about they are "forced" to do them is just BS.
BUT! Just like what the problem was before, you're limiting the choices one can make to gain these items. It's either do loads of dailies or now do pet battles.

What I wonder is, why can you earn an PvE Currency with something that has nothing to do with PvE? Give more choices to obtain them! Even if they are for example really rare it would still be really nice just to earn some of them by doing what you love! I really think this isn't a fix or an extra for some people cause again it's really limited in the way you can get these.

Again, I agree there not mandatory at all but why make it so that only a really small selectiv group will actually like it. I think the way of Cata by earning them with HCs isnt what you guys are planning but why don't make it so that you can earn them everywhere just like the Motes of Harmony? Just make the drop chance really small, people uselly don't care, as long as they have a range of choices they can make and are not limited in the way they would like to earn them.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9155
Byakurai, you get Anglers rep if you turn in a rare catch to Nat Pagle. So you can earn rep through fishing... It's really slow, but it's a method.
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90 Human Hunter
10385
20/12/2012 14:47Posted by Draztal
Anglers


Not to derail, but isn't that just wrong information? You can get "friendshiprep" with the allmighty fisherman, but not with the faction itself?
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90 Human Death Knight
16920
20/12/2012 15:20Posted by Byakurai
I'm sorry, but did I miss something? The only alternative way to get rep for GL I can think of is the key to a chest in Guo-Lai halls, which you can farm most efficiently by doing dailies. Also, it would take way, way longer. Alternative rep gaining for Klaxxi would be limited to doing normal quests, and I don't see how normal quests are much better or different than dailies. The Anglers only have dailies and the Cloud Serpents only alternative is farming eggs that were severely overfarmed when everyone was doing them and still would be horribly slow right now.


you can farm dread amber shards for klaxxi rep and you can fish the rare fishes for angler rep ;P so the options are there, but are probably less eficient :P getting paterns is unfortunate, but then again u will take half the time getting to the required rep if u already did it on one char and u can focus only on that one rep grind
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14575
19/12/2012 16:51Posted by Draztal
charm are mandatory if you want to be up to par, if you're lucky you get 3 extra items per week


They aren't mandatory though. You can raid just fine without them. Yes, you won't gear as fast (assuming you get items from them relatively often), but it's not going to impact your character in a negative way, other than *perhaps* missing an upgrade (since you don't even have the guarantee you'll get one through the charms).


19/12/2012 16:52Posted by Ríkku
You're not at all forced in the slightest. In fact, all the charms do is give you a bonus roll. It's not mandatory for loot, or for raiding.


It's a mandatory if you want to be a top notch raider,and you know it.


They are and you know it... same with dailys and also you know it... I just dont understand why you do so much crap from few years, hard to believe you are going to kill this money maker game...
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90 Night Elf Druid
8215
So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).


It would be nice if perhaps there was a daily/weekly reputation cap of (picking an arbitrary number for arguments sake) 1,000 so players can chose to do dailies OR dungeons.

Would it then be too much to ask to make the tabard at revered/exalted BoA that enables rep from dungeons? Not extra rep -- just an alternative way.

Players who enjoy dailies would still do them without feeling like they're missing out. Players who have alts (or just don't like dailies) could get rep through dungeons and with the added advantage of gearing that toon up (my limited play time means I'm forced to chose between dailies or gearing up through dungeons).

Of course, once you're at the rep cap you can continue to do dungeons or even do some dailies (for extra Valour, Gold, Charms, or for the Hell of it).

Does that sound like a bad idea? I'm not trying to start an argument Mr. Draztal, I'm trying to be very concious that my ideas aren't always good and genuinely trying to find flaws with it.

Don't get me wrong -- I enjoyed the dailies on my first character (even if I had day after day at Whitepetal Lake!). On my second? A lot less. And whilst the 100% rep bonus helped, I'm not relishing the fact I'll have to do them for my third, fourth, fifth (etc) alts.
Edited by Taonas on 20/12/2012 15:51 GMT
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90 Human Death Knight
16920
20/12/2012 15:41Posted by Thoragim
They are and you know it... same with dailys and also you know it... I just dont understand why you do so much crap from few years, hard to believe you are going to kill this money maker game...


20/12/2012 11:36Posted by Darknuno
If you want to be a top notch raider, you should be willing to do everything within your reach to achieve that, inside and outside of raids. Im guessing farming food and herbs to make feasts and flasks is something you expect others to do for you then
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90 Troll Priest
10225
The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

I realize that are not the players that take the decisions as how the game should evolve.
That is for the developers, game designers, etc.
Anyhow, I like to think that a game like WoW, with a huge fan base, sees and evaluates players opinions.
Developers might want the game to take a specific path, but they also must expect that players might not be very happy with that path and react to that.


You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies.

Sure there is. But that doesn't make it the best option. I don't have the data Blizzard might have, but taking into account my playing Realm and Guild, I' pretty sure most don't.


Also, there're other methods to increase certain reputations if you truly don't want to do dailies (Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Tillers (for individual friendships), Anglers and Order of the Cloud Serpent).

There are??? O.O


And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

I believe the thought behind this might be the right one, but I'm always a bit unconfortable when I read something like "the developers want them ...", it feels like "we, the developers, say you do that, you do and !@#$".
Look, I have no problem with dailies existing in game. Who wants to do it, plz do and have a blast. But I think there should be other ways of achieving the same goal. Not everyone wants to know that content the developers think they should know.
Tabards might be fun, who wants to use them, plz do.
Other solutions like someone said about champion a Faction are fine with me also.

Anyhow, all this fuzz about Reps would be avoided if Blizzard didn't decided that VP gear should be behind Faction Reputation. That compelled players to do the dailies, whether they were "forced" or not.
And we were compelled to do almost all the freaking Factions!!!
Has I said in some other post, Rep grinding should be for vanity or special items like mounts, pets, huge bags, epic gems, etc.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).


Well I have cancelled until this is changed.

My chars are healers. Daily Quests are impossible with 3K DPS and no AoE spells. For Scenarios, a healer is not even needed at all. There is no way to progress in this game as a healer once you do hit level 90. Level 90 = Game Over.

20/12/2012 14:47Posted by Draztal
But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to


That is exactly what I am saying, I wish to go dungeons, raids. You say more content is available out side of these. Where?

Scenario - no healer is need.
Daily Quests - impossible as healer.

Tell me how you wish me to play your game please?
Edited by Amrissa on 20/12/2012 16:11 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
8215
Well I have cancelled until this is changed.

My chars are healers. Daily Quests are impossible with 3K DPS and no AoE spells. For Scenarios, a healer is not even needed at all. There is no way to progress in this game as a healer once you do hit level 90. Level 90 = Game Over.


Much as I don't like dailies, that's simply not the case.

There's dungeons to run to gear up, then heroic dungeons, then LFR and normal/heroic raids if you're in a raiding guild (or want to pug it).
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