Charms and repetition of content

90 Blood Elf Paladin
12230

They aren't mandatory though. You can raid just fine without them. Yes, you won't gear as fast (assuming you get items from them relatively often), but it's not going to impact your character in a negative way, other than *perhaps* missing an upgrade (since you don't even have the guarantee you'll get one through the charms).


The big negative impact it's had on my characters is that I'm currently stuck in the first raid with alts, unable to get the item level requirement to do Heart of Fear/Terrace.
Doing faction grinds and dailies on my main is fine, I don't mind focusing on one hub at a time till I'm exalted and have all the shinies, but I've realised how painfully slow gearing alts is if you don't do dailies with them.

Literally the only difference in how I've played my main compared to my current alt is that I did dailies on my main. She was always able to hop into the new raid finder instances whenever they opened, but after weeks of running MSV my alt is still only at 475 ilevel (and two of those levels are from when I caved and did some of the new dailies so I could actually spend my valour on something worthwhile).

Dailies aren't mandatory, but they're not mandatory in the same way doing quests isn't mandatory to level. The rewards associated with them are such a colossal boost to a player's rate of progression compared to everything else that you feel incredibly hamstrung without them.

I'm happy to hear about the pet battle changes, but I'd still like to see charms rewarded for heroics, scenarios, maybe even from a crop on the farm?
And then we could really use the rep requirements being taken off valour gear already. I really don't understand why this was ever a thing. When you feel like a rep grind's being pushed on you to progress it starts to become a chore, and a good MMO masks the chore-factor as much as possible.

The funny thing is I'd absolutely adore the new daily/faction systems if valour gear and charms weren't tied into it.
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20/12/2012 15:35Posted by Torsdag
Not to derail, but isn't that just wrong information? You can get "friendshiprep" with the allmighty fisherman, but not with the faction itself?


Absolutely true, you're right.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
Much as I don't like dailies, that's simply not the case.

There's dungeons to run to gear up, then heroic dungeons, then LFR and normal/heroic raids if you're in a raiding guild (or want to pug it).


I have zero interest in LFR, so basically what you are saying is once i have gear up in HCs = game over (wich funnily is exactly what I am saying also).
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90 Night Elf Druid
8790
20/12/2012 16:15Posted by Amrissa
I have zero interest in LFR, so basically what you are saying is once i have gear up in HCs = game over (wich funnily is exactly what I am saying also).


Might I ask what you did when your character was geared up during each previous expansion, then?
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90 Draenei Priest
12505
Ohhh, I promised myself I wouldn't post on this thread and get involved, but it's so hard not to!

20/12/2012 16:01Posted by Amrissa
There is no way to progress in this game as a healer once you do hit level 90. Level 90 = Game Over.


Sorry, but I have to disagree :) My main is a healer, and I won't lie - her dps sucks - I group up with guildies/friends or other people who are also doing dailies in the area who wish to team up on my server. If your dps spec is struggling with your healer gear (and I understand that feeling well, especially when it comes to those hateful Shado Pan mantid dailies!) it is an uphill battle indeed, but to say that progress is impossible is simply not true, it's just a little more challenging :)

Back on topic, I don't have a problem with doing dailies to get my cap, or rep - it gives people a chance to mix and match their stuff. People cried out for "no free gear" and we got it - locked behind dailies - now people complain that we have to work hard. The 3 Charms you "need" for the extra rolls are obtained by doing 45 daily quests per week - seems a lot but if you break it down on a daily basis, it's less than 8 quests per day - is that really too much time to spend to obtain the things deemed so crucial? If MoP mobs/quests are as easy as many seem to think, then 8 quests per day should be easily sped through?

I'm sorry, but I do kind of agree with this:

Posted by Darknuno
If you want to be a top notch raider, you should be willing to do everything within your reach to achieve that, inside and outside of raids.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
20/12/2012 16:17Posted by Taonas
Might I ask what you did when your character was geared up during each previous expansion, then?


I raided with my guild, though tbh 99% of my time in WoW was spent *joining LFG* *spamming dungeons* .. the reason for this is all my chars are healers, content out side of dungeons / raids, the char was not designed for. It is similar for daily quest now - these are not fun with 3k dps and 35 heal spells. I can make a ret paladin, though this now does mean the game is playing content I do not enjoy with a char I do not enjoy.

The big reason I did buy this expansion was Scenarios. They did seem really exciting in the things I read pre MoP ! =) .. and then this is released and "no healer is need". gah *kicks a pebble*.
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90 Gnome Mage
12250
[quote]No, All we want is:
<snip>

But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

EDIT: Also, edited the thread title for clarity about what it's being talked here, rather than an obscure (and against the Code of Conduct) "Blue post says".


Yes, I deem this a fair request. After all my choosen class is buffed or nerfed because of PvP - something I do not like to participate at all - but because of it (pVp) I have to adjust my playstyle often enough as it has direct implications in PvE. So, yes it is fair to request that other people have to do stuff the way I like - because I have to do stuff because of stuff I do not do or rather do not want to do at all.
Carry on citizen, nothing to be seen here ^^
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90 Night Elf Druid
8790
20/12/2012 16:21Posted by Amrissa
I raided with my guild, though tbh 99% of my time in WoW was spent *joining LFG* *spamming dungeons* .. the reason for this is all my chars are healers, content out side of dungeons / raids, the char was not designed for. It is similar for daily quest now - these are not fun with 3k dps and 35 heal spells. I can make a ret paladin, though this now does mean the game is playing content I do not enjoy with a char I do not enjoy.


You can still do that now.

The first tier of every raiding tier is designed to be done in gear from heroic dungeons. Then you can gear up through normal raiding and avoid LFR all together.

Of course, if your guild has disbanded or otherwise not raiding anymore - then that's not a problem about dailies.... (and I still hate dailies myself, so me defending them is something special!)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
20/12/2012 16:20Posted by Twijfelkont
Sorry, but I have to disagree :) My main is a healer, and I won't lie - her dps sucks - I group up with guildies/friends or other people who are also doing dailies in the area who wish to team up on my server. If your dps spec is struggling with your healer gear (and I understand that feeling well, especially when it comes to those hateful Shado Pan mantid dailies!) it is an uphill battle indeed, but to say that progress is impossible is simply not true, it's just a little more challenging :)


This is a wole seperate issue.

I choose "Holy Paladin" for I despise to DPS, and of DPS roles I despise to Melee. So I choose healer for a casting, ranged, healing class. And now the game wishes for me to be melee DPS any way. This "play the content we demand you play" is one thing .. "play the class and role we demand you play" is a step too far.

Though nm .. others do like this so *shrugs*. I guess the game did move on with out me.
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That is exactly what I am saying, I wish to go dungeons, raids. You say more content is available out side of these. Where?

Scenario - no healer is need.
Daily Quests - impossible as healer.

Tell me how you wish me to play your game please?


You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS? Even if it's a different healing spec, do you really need it at every single moment of the day? It's your choice to go with two healing specs, and that obviously comes with a downside (just as a tank that decides to go with two different tanking specs and argues his DPS is low on that content).

Proceeding to argue that because you run with a dual healing spec there's no content you can do is not going to get you very far because the answer is simple: use a DPS spec for that content.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
20/12/2012 16:24Posted by Taonas
Of course, if your guild has disbanded or otherwise not raiding anymore - then that's not a problem about dailies.... (and I still hate dailies myself, so me defending them is something special!)


Many players I do know, players I did raid with, they leave WoW wen they hit 90 , daily quests was their issue.

I do have (despite my QQing) NP with daily quests. I did try them with a war lock and hunter alt and they were OK, though I have no wish to play DPS role in dungeon or raid.

All I do wish for is a choice. Dungeons or / and Daily Quests. I already am sitting out the one part of the expansion that I did buy it for (Scenarios were no healer is need), and I feel excluded from daily quests as healer, and I see no harm in continuing with dungeons though Blizzard wish for me to feel "This is playing the game wrong".
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90 Night Elf Druid
8790
You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS? Even if it's a different healing spec, do you really need it at every single moment of the day? It's your choice to go with two healing specs, and that obviously comes with a downside (just as a tank that decides to go with two different tanking specs and argues his DPS is low on that content).

Proceeding to argue that because you run with a dual healing spec there's no content you can do is not going to get you very far because the answer is simple: use a DPS spec for that content.


To be fair, not everybody wants a second specialisation especially if it's a spec they're not enjoying (melee spec, healing spec, tanking spec, ranged spec).

A friend of mine in another guild has two rogues and two warlocks because he "plays them differently". I asked him what this means exactly but I didn't really understand why.

Whereas myself - all my toons have dual spec just because I'm greedy ^.^
Edited by Taonas on 20/12/2012 16:31 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355
You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS? Even if it's a different healing spec, do you really need it at every single moment of the day? It's your choice to go with two healing specs, and that obviously comes with a downside (just as a tank that decides to go with two different tanking specs and argues his DPS is low on that content).

Proceeding to argue that because you run with a dual healing spec there's no content you can do is not going to get you very far because the answer is simple: use a DPS spec for that content.


Because I did choose a Holy Paladin to play a ranged casting healing class - specifically for I did not like Melee DPSing, but if your only response to this is "Play a different class because you are doing it wrong" then WoW no longer offers fun content for me and I am out *shrugs*.
Edited by Amrissa on 20/12/2012 16:31 GMT
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90 Draenei Priest
12505
20/12/2012 16:24Posted by Amrissa
I choose "Holy Paladin" for I despise to DPS, and of DPS roles I despise to Melee. So I choose healer for a casting, ranged, healing class. And now the game wishes for me to be melee DPS any way.


This I can indeed relate to - I had a Retri Pala in Cata that I just simply could not get on with in MoP, so I re-specced her to tank, but hardly ever play her to be honest - and like yourself, I much prefer to heal than dps, but do admit it's nice to quest alone and dps when people aren't watching the dps count ^^

But I believe you can heal in scenarios (if you want to) can't you?
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90 Human Hunter
10385

You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS?


No offense meant, but that is quite a arrogant solution. What if said person does not enjoy dpsing? So they are forced to make a dpsspec to do the content? Thats smells more like bad design.
Edited by Torsdag on 20/12/2012 16:33 GMT
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90 Draenei Priest
12505

You have two talent specializations. Why not have one for DPS?


No offense meant, but that is quite a arrogant solution. What if said person does not enjoy dpsing? So they are forced to make a dpsspec to do the content? Thats smells more like bad design.


I don't care for dps'ing most of the time either, I love to heal, but to me it's natural that if I want to do anything outside of the thing I enjoy most to progress in other ways, I need a dps spec ^^

It's more a question of logic to choose a dps offspec than arrogance to get these things done, surely?
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90 Worgen Hunter
10515
..what the f..?
Seriously? "I can't play the game as healer" whines? With dual talent speccs?
A feature that was introduced to combat exactly that kind of problem?

20/12/2012 16:36Posted by Twijfelkont
It's more a question of logic to choose a dps offspec than arrogance to get these things done, surely?


Yes.
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20/12/2012 16:32Posted by Torsdag
No offense meant, but that is quite a arrogant solution. What if said person does not enjoy dpsing? So they are forced to make a dpsspec to do the content? Thats smells more like bad design.


If you are arguing that it's bad design that you're expected to do damage to defeat your foes (which is what you do on daily quests and scenarios) then I have the feeling we're just disagreeing on a fundamental level: what makes this game an (MMO)RPG.

You can't heal your foes to death (at least not yet), so if you don't want to DPS but want to do dailies, nothing short of divine intervention will help you solve your case. It really sounds like we just disagree on the most fundamental level: how the game should be played on its most basic level.

In any case, that discussion would derail the thread.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
Hello all.

I really want to someone answer me honestly some questions.

Imagine you have a full time job, that's 10hours a day ( 8~9hours working 1~2 hours on transportation ), that's the normal. You have a tight raiding scheduling, thing you keep since TBC, 4 hours a day for 5 days a week. ( Sun-Thu ). So basically during 4 days of the week your life is, get home from work, eat a meal, sit in front of the pc, raid, end the raid, go to bed, next day.

It comes the "raid free" days, i need to prepare everything for next week raid, flasks, foods, keep the gems that i most need on stock, enchants, try to make some money to not go broke with repairs.

You need here some quality time, family time, organizing your house time, IRL stuff.

So when I have the time for dailies, even more WHY do I have to do dailies ?

You may say it's NOT necessary, but look... When you are trying to progress thorugh content, everyone need to do their best, if the whole raid can use coins, some1 will win a loot from coins, gear up faster, the guild as one will equip faster, and may progress faster... So if I don't do that, i'm slowing the progress of my guild, so i'm not a desirable asset to bring to raids, i have the worse gear, because i didn't use as many coins as the others.

So you are telling me that because i don't have time and DON'T like ( I REALLY HATE THE OBLIGATION to come to a game do a daily task, i have daily tasks on my job, that's enough, i want to do things when i want as i want).

In top of that you made that raid bosses give litle to NOTHING valor point, 40 valor point ?????????? Are you kidding me, the content that you realesed the MOST bosses it's the harder to a raider to get the valor cap ( the ones that REALLY need it mostly ) to the guy running heroics.

Imagine i can kill every 16 bosses a Week. It's 540 valor points. And that was 20 hours of raiding ( with progress on the mid, it's very normal ). If an avarage instance take 25 minutes. you in 1200 mintes can make 120 instance. lets say in 5 diferent days so you get 400 just for the 5 instances ( daily ) and more then you could ever need for the cap. 115x40 =4600...

So it's more REWARDABLE to a raider, the ones that needs the most from the VP, to run Heroics than to raid it self... I'm not telling the Heroic VP amount is off...

"Oh you already get loot from the raids, you don't need the VP's for nothing else" Really ??? With the new "upgrade system" i need to spend EVERY point upgrading my gear to keep on the top...

So here it is i'm forced to do EVERYTHING to keep on my top, not only raid and prepare my stuff to raid... I'm forced to do the dailies, do the reps that almost no raider use the gear anymore and run heroics, just to keep on top of my game.

And we here only talked about how things are bad for my main... can't even talk of my alt/alts... If i Barely have time to my main... I have even less to gear up my alt or level a 3rd 90.

The problem is you created things that you think that they are not mandatory, but some players think they are mandatory, otherwise we will fall behind... Some people don't like dailies, as some people don't like PvP...

I already spend too much time on the game, and Blizz is thinking to make me spend even more time, make the same TEDIOUS things OVER AND OVER AND OVER... I usually quit raiding when the content is on farm, because it's just the same thing over and over...

Some solutions just to solve our problems a bit... You could've weekly quests that would you reward those coins, something strange and random, but more Rewardly to do then 45 dailyes during a week.
Example would be engage in some "big" quest like, go to this instance pick that item, go to that place mark the item, bring the item to there and discover more about it, and then you deliver to the rightful owner. Bang 1 Gold coin. And took you not even half an hour... Another coin maybe to engage in something similar but on a scenario to engage people to actually use it more ? And Yes the another one by dailies... 40 coins for example and there you go 3 weeklies that would you give the same thing with engaging content, not given, but FAR MORE ENJOYABLE, it's still near the samething as dailies ( its repetitive ) but weekly. For those who enjoying doing dailies still there is room for that, for those who like a bit more of dungeons and a bit of wandering to tell some story ( Could be by FAR more elaborate than those dailies ) as you could do a story told weekly that could last a whole patch to tell (.... look how cool would be that, people waiting to the next week to understand more of the lore... ).

Solution for the VP problem... Just do it More reachable if you kill the 16 bosses... the raiders already spent half their productive time of the week playing your game, they don't need another half just to reach the cap.... I would raise to 55, as on a guild not everyone does all the 16 bosses. that would make people do a scenario and a heroic on a single day of their choice to reach the cap. And more for those who misses a few bosses.

I know it's a HARD job to keep everyone happy, and sometimes you want to stick to your decisions so you can make the boat goes where you want, but the boat right now is going to a daily thing, like a job... And that's not what your actual player base is looking for, as you know your player based got old with you guys, with you games... We are not the teenagers anymore, you have more players in the mid 20's than any other game, most have job, college, things to attend to... We want some challenge, but not irrealistcly every day chores.
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MVP
90 Human Death Knight
10665
20/12/2012 16:32Posted by Torsdag
No offense meant, but that is quite a arrogant solution. What if said person does not enjoy dpsing? So they are forced to make a dpsspec to do the content? Thats smells more like bad design.

I'm curious; how many RPGs (or MMORPGs...) have you played where you never once had to kill something? I'll be honest and say that I quite suspect the number will be zero. With the greatest of respect, if you don't enjoy that kind of gameplay, then you really picked the wrong genre of game to play.
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