Charms and repetition of content

MVP - WoW, Diablo III
90 Draenei Shaman
8720
20/12/2012 18:11Posted by Anon
Giving out advice to healers and saying them just to go group up when dps classes are doing 2-5 times the dmg sounds fun... for the dps.


The DPS is still going to be getting the dailies done quicker. I have a healer only priest, I team up with whoever is in my guild that is about to do their dailies, we pull a mob each, when the DPS has finished off their mob, they join in on mine.. usually takes about 2 secs from when the DPS joins on my mob. 2 mobs with an extra 2 seconds playtime... if the DPS cant see that, well... that's their issue. In a raiding guild (which seems to be the focus here, being the best meaning repetition etc) one would hope that the members of the guild would see it in their best interest to help their healers improve their gear.. its win win for both the healer, the DPS and by extension the guild as a whole. If I were in a guild where no one was prepared to help with such a task and the DPS etc all doing thier dailies solo whilst leaving me as a healer to fend for myself... well.. that would be a guild I would not stay in very long.
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90 Draenei Priest
12990
Its interesting to see DPS specs come here and defend this daily quest system. Not realising at all that many healers are still doing those dailies in 463 gear. Or if they did -they dont realise how gimped those players are in that low ilvl gear..

And if they realise how gimped those players are... those dps are just proofing how little they care about solo content for other specs in the game... as long as they can 1 or 2 shot every mob.

Giving out advice to healers and saying them just to go group up when dps classes are doing 2-5 times the dmg sounds fun... for the dps. And thats why most ppl play dps in WOW. And thats why we have 1 hour long Qs in LFR waiting for healers.


My main char is healer spec, and I posted this earlier - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6161067458?page=6#105

I appreciate some people don't like to dps, and most of the time, I am one of them, I much prefer healing - and whilst I absolutely agree with some of your points (namely, about chucking a few Charms into a healer Riches bag, and also about how difficult it is for us to dps in mixed spec gear, trust me, I know how hard that is) - but when it comes down to it, to get the necessary charms needed for this "crucial" chance at extra rolls, you only need to do a 7 or 8 dailies a day - and I am quite prepared to save a few bits of dps gear I get, respec, accept help from guildies etc, and roll my sleeves up and do a few dailies. I have to agree with Kergosh - there are ways to get around struggling alone in healer gear to get those few dailies a day done if you really want to.

Plus this:

20/12/2012 18:21Posted by Penitentiary
Charms.. they've all given me gold the last 3 weeks so i'm starting to care less and less about those.


If my memory serves me correctly, the only time I won anything from an extra roll is a duplicate ring which had dropped 3 seconds earlier :P Frankly, I'm getting bored of 28g 50s pop up in my screen! ^^
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90 Worgen Druid
17800
20/12/2012 16:01Posted by Amrissa
My chars are healers. Daily Quests are impossible with 3K DPS and no AoE spells. For Scenarios, a healer is not even needed at all. There is no way to progress in this game as a healer once you do hit level 90. Level 90 = Game Over.

That's why...we have..dualspec? You're kind of 4 years too late with this complaint.
I have 2 healers myself, and there is no way it is impossible to progress.
And you can queue as healer for scenario. It'll go slower, but I haven't met anyone who frown at that when I've met (especially priests for some reason, perhaps cause of holy/disc) healers in scenarios.
I get that the spi to hit conversion isn't really useful for pallies. But if you wanted to go tank it'd be the same way.

Talk about useless QQ...Sorry, but healers have it no worse than tanks. AND we have a faster LFR queue than tanks as well.

Go run heroics a few days after the reset or just before. Most people are just after capping the vp's and you can grab all the os gear you want.
Edited by Nuvielle on 20/12/2012 18:30 GMT
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I would like to go up one level and say that : "different parts of the game shouldn't be linked together"
for the sake of : playing what (aspect of the game) I like to progress at it (this particular aspect of the game).

Ex:
- I enjoy competitive arena, the game actually rewards me with arena gear when i play arena, witch is cool.
But, when i found my self behind in gear (at disadvantage) because i didn't do Sha 2 weeks, or i didn't get lucky in it's loot It's kinda bad imo.
Even worse when you see people doing dailies, to get charms, to get double loot in Sha, and hope it's pvp gear...
It would have been nice if Sha was there, as an boss NPC, and gave loot that helps you improve in killing Boss NPCs, not Arena.
I could say the same for other relations : BG <=> arena, professions <=> arena... and so on.

TL:DR
A lot of cross connections you made in the game between different parts : dailies, dungeons, raid, Arena, BGs, etc... easily switch from being optional to mandatory once you get a little serious at what you enjoy playing.
Doing X makes you better at X is good.
Doing Y makes you better at X is not good.

As for me, I would happily quit live servers for "tournament realm only play" if i could, as it doesn't force me to play what i do not enjoy playing.
Edited by Samati on 20/12/2012 18:32 GMT
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[
So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.


Oh, so dungeons giving more than 1 reward is bad. Lets see what dailies give:
Valor points -> vendor gear of similar ilevel to normal raids.
Gold -> BoE items/enchants/consumables
Reputation -> access to the VP vendors
Charms -> more loot in raids

So basically its totally fine for dailies to give EVERY PvE reward? Its like dungeons in Cata, except they give an ADDITIONAL reward in the form of raid gear.

Sorry, but thats bull!@#$.

I have no problem with doing stuff outside raids to improve my raid performance, but why does that stuff have to be dailies in the so-called "expansion of many options"?
LFR being essentially mandatory for people who are even moderately serious about raiding(not even counting the fact that you can speed up your Sigil collection rate significantly in LFR) is another issue, but that one has been explained a billion times as well, and you still don't understand that looting LFR bosses(not LFR itself) on the same lockout as normal/heroic raids would solve the main issue raiders have with it.
Edited by Teashuffle on 20/12/2012 18:33 GMT
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90 Worgen Druid
17800
20/12/2012 18:29Posted by Teashuffle
So basically its totally fine for dailies to give EVERY PvE reward? Its like dungeons in Cata, except they give an ADDITIONAL reward in the form of raid gear.

Money also give PvE rewards. DMF trinket and craftables gets you a long way.
PvP give rewards. My rogue has a PvP belt that is better than the LFR one, cause I can cap conq and upgrade with that while I save VP's for another item.

I'm all for rewarding charms and rep though a tabard or other instanced means -on successsive characters- after one has gotten to Exalted with a BOA- tabard, so you'd have to do the progression once.

Also, Galleon's spawn timer is horrid. If he was sorted out (difficulty/timer/location) perhaps playes would feel that there were more optional gearing routes. 40-100 players per server per reset on a random chance is way too little to consider it additional.
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90 Orc Rogue
13230
20/12/2012 18:37Posted by Nuvielle
I'm all for rewarding charms and rep though a tabard


^
Edited by Crimínal on 20/12/2012 18:39 GMT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8610
[quote]...
After I was done with the reps I stopped doing the dailies too (except for the one giving an Ironpaw token) and I still have... lets see... 1303 lesser charms saved up. So even if I don't touch another daily until April 2013, I should have enough lesser charms to get my bonus rolls every week.


Well you sure must have done a lot of dailies - i think the most # of lesser charms i have had before turning in that week is about 150, so i dont get how you got that many unless you didnt turn in any for elder charms. And mind you, two nights of farming every week might be acceptable for 1 char, but 3? >.>
It's your own fault if you feel like charms are mandatory even for your alts. If you think it's too much trouble just stop doing it on your alts. And i have 4 level 90's myself, so it's not like i couldn't possible care as if i only had one lvl 90..
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90 Human Paladin
0
Its interesting to see DPS specs come here and defend this daily quest system. Not realising at all that many healers are still doing those dailies in 463 gear. Or if they did -they dont realise how gimped those players are in that low ilvl gear..

And if they realise how gimped those players are... those dps are just proofing how little they care about solo content for other specs in the game... as long as they can 1 or 2 shot every mob.

Giving out advice to healers and saying them just to go group up when dps classes are doing 2-5 times the dmg sounds fun... for the dps. And thats why most ppl play dps in WOW. And thats why we have 1 hour long Qs in LFR waiting for healers.


My main char is healer spec, and I posted this earlier - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6161067458?page=6#105

I appreciate some people don't like to dps, and most of the time, I am one of them, I much prefer healing - and whilst I absolutely agree with some of your points (namely, about chucking a few Charms into a healer Riches bag, and also about how difficult it is for us to dps in mixed spec gear, trust me, I know how hard that is) - but when it comes down to it, to get the necessary charms needed for this "crucial" chance at extra rolls, you only need to do a 7 or 8 dailies a day - and I am quite prepared to save a few bits of dps gear I get, respec, accept help from guildies etc, and roll my sleeves up and do a few dailies. I have to agree with Kergosh - there are ways to get around struggling alone in healer gear to get those few dailies a day done if you really want to.

Plus this:

20/12/2012 18:21Posted by Penitentiary
Charms.. they've all given me gold the last 3 weeks so i'm starting to care less and less about those.


If my memory serves me correctly, the only time I won anything from an extra roll is a duplicate ring which had dropped 3 seconds earlier :P Frankly, I'm getting bored of 28g 50s pop up in my screen! ^^


This has nothing to do with liking to play DPS or healer. This has to do with the simple fact that Blizzard can fix the biggest issue of this expansion with few simple changes that dont force ppl to do exact tasks - but intstead rewards them for doing the content where they are needed.

We need healers in LFR. So instead of forcing healers to take their crap dps gear or to group up for dailies - BLizzard could just reward those healers with lesser charms when Qs go over 5 mins long in LFR. 10 charms per run. Nope... instead Blizzard thinks its best to let them suffer doing those dailies every single day... And then having them Q up as DPS in LFR to make the Qs even longer cause they need the dps gear to make the grinding less painfull.

There are solutions to the BIG problems in MOP. Telling healers to go do their dailies in dps spec or to group up is not one of them. Cause it does in no way fix the real issues that this expansion has created with this much focus on DPS content. It creates unbalanced content in terms of roles that needs to be fixed asap. It can be done.
Edited by Anon on 20/12/2012 19:03 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
0
Giving out advice to healers and saying them just to go group up when dps classes are doing 2-5 times the dmg sounds fun... for the dps.


The DPS is still going to be getting the dailies done quicker. I have a healer only priest, I team up with whoever is in my guild that is about to do their dailies, we pull a mob each, when the DPS has finished off their mob, they join in on mine.. usually takes about 2 secs from when the DPS joins on my mob. 2 mobs with an extra 2 seconds playtime... if the DPS cant see that, well... that's their issue. In a raiding guild (which seems to be the focus here, being the best meaning repetition etc) one would hope that the members of the guild would see it in their best interest to help their healers improve their gear.. its win win for both the healer, the DPS and by extension the guild as a whole. If I were in a guild where no one was prepared to help with such a task and the DPS etc all doing thier dailies solo whilst leaving me as a healer to fend for myself... well.. that would be a guild I would not stay in very long.


You dont get it do you ... Healers should not NEED to do dailies cause they are needed in LFR to shorten the Qs there. Give them 10 lesser charms per full run and gold (about same it takes to do 5 dailies) and Qs wil automaticly shorten by at least 100%. Its a win win for eveyone. Unless ofc you are a dps that wants to have healers suffer based on their role.
Edited by Anon on 20/12/2012 19:08 GMT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12660
The defenition of what's mandatory is curious..in the end what really is mandatory?

I just find it puzzling blizzard dosen't realise that people will feel that this is mandatory, even how much senseless logic they try to put behind it. "Helm enchants remove due to rep grinds felt mandatory"...what? z.z
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Q: I really don't want to do dailies for coins either, why can't we just get them from HC's as well?

A: Actually, not from heroics, but the developers are planning to let you have a chance to earn Lesser Charms of Good Fortune through Pet Battles. Basically, if you win, you'll have a chance of receiving charms based on your pet level.

so now we're forced to pet battle?


who in hell`s name forces u to pet battles ? or dailies...or heroics ? no1 cares if ur not able to do them lol,
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90 Human Paladin
0
The defenition of what's mandatory is curious..in the end what really is mandatory?

I just find it puzzling blizzard dosen't realise that people will feel that this is mandatory, even how much senseless logic they try to put behind it. "Helm enchants remove due to rep grinds felt mandatory"...what? z.z


Yes I agree that whats mandatory is up to each player - not based on what Devs, blues and greens say about it.

You can say its not mandatory to do any quests in the game at all. You can also say its not mandatory to kill any mobs at all. But the truth is that the game is designed based on core mecanics and that without a doubt includes the extra 3 rolls per week players get from their charms.
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
90 Draenei Shaman
8720
You dont get it do you ... Healers should not NEED to do dailies cause they are needed in LFR to shorten the Qs there.


If healers were given something that everyone else had to work for simply for faster LFR queues, we would be overrun with healers because everyone would roll or spec into healing and then this post would pop up again saying that DPS or tanks should get the rewards from dailies because there aren't enough DPS/Tanks for all the healers. Saying Healers should have such an advantage is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard suggested in my 5 years on these forums, and I am a healer.
Edited by Shammoz on 20/12/2012 19:16 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
There are solutions to the BIG problems in MOP. Telling healers to go do their dailies in dps spec or to group up is not one of them. Cause it does in no way fix the real issues that this expansion has created with this much focus on DPS content. It creates unbalanced content in terms of roles that needs to be fixed asap. It can be done.


Since MoP release, I first level this char to 90. I then go Daily Quests, this did take 3 hours to complete 6 quests. I receive 30 quest points, and some rep points also, and I did feel "gah" for two reasons 1) this was to take more time than I was willing to put in to this content because 2) I now am a melee DPS and I despise this.

Then I create 2 war locks and 2 hunters (do not ask xD) and I level 1-90 with those 4 chars. Now, for those 4 daily quests they are *exactly as intended*. They are fun diversion from *just standing at Ogrimar* .. some thing to do! I could do daily quests as these 4 chars for hours.

The part I am stuck at it is simply this ...

In dungeons & raids I do have zero interest in the role of DPS. The only role I do enjoy is healer (as Holy Paladin).

For quests, I only do enjoy ranged DPS (and I do <3 to quest, this is why 2 war locks and 2 hunters xD)

The rep points I gain as those 4 DPS are meaningless, sure I can buy epic armor for these chars, it never shall be used. In fact it does feel heart breaking to even earn rep points for these chars whilst the class I really do want to play collects dust (and no rep points).

Ideally my solution shall be one of two things. 1) Rep Tabards. Though I can at least agree this is a boring design. 2) Account Bound Reputation points. eg I go Daily Quest for my hunter, I can give the points to my healers.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8385
20/12/2012 18:03Posted by Kergosh
3. Focus on the non-kill dailies (gathering, healing wounded things, etc). For example, I made exalted with 3-4 rounds of dailies for the dragon guys , the rest was collecting Onyx Eggs (with alt it was 1 and a half round, with 6 eggs to spare at the end). It will take a lot longer to get rep in most cases, but you won't have to respecc.


OK ty I was not even aware of these *goes to read wowhead*

20/12/2012 18:03Posted by Kergosh
GL and Merry X-Mas


happy winter veil !!
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90 Human Paladin
0
20/12/2012 19:14Posted by Shammoz
You dont get it do you ... Healers should not NEED to do dailies cause they are needed in LFR to shorten the Qs there.


If healers were given something that everyone else had to work for simply for faster LFR queues, we would be overrun with healers because everyone would roll or spec into healing and then this post would pop up again saying that DPS or tanks should get the rewards from dailies because there aren't enough DPS/Tanks for all the healers. Saying Healers should have such an advantage is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard suggested, and I am a healer.


Overrun with healers ? Since when has WOW been overrun with healers? It would be the exact same system we have with LFD where roles that are needed get rewarded. If we have too many healers in LFR then that role is not needed and they wont get the rewards. Simple.

This is about NOT forcing ppl to do 1 sort of content when the game is clearly not designed in the first place for that role to do that content in efficient way. And this is about giving those roles real options instead of saying - go dps....
Edited by Anon on 20/12/2012 19:24 GMT
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MVP - WoW, Diablo III
90 Draenei Shaman
8720
Overrun with healers ? Since when has WOW been overrun with healers?


But wow WOULD be overrun with healers if they dont need to do dailies etc to gain their charms and VP, everyone would spec into healing or roll one (as I said last time).

Also, if your suggestion would to be taken seriously, how does the game determine a "Healer" and therefore not require them to complete the same tasks? There is no class in the game that is healer ONLY, so how would the game deal with players that do have dual spec and decide that they are a healer and exempt from the same tasks that everyone else has to do?
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90 Undead Rogue
17565
I'm really amazed how WoW community evolved over the years. Earlier the game was really time consuming and yet people loved the game and didn't complain as much.

To the whiners : it seems that you want to play WoW but you want to play YOUR WoW. Game gives you features, all you do is go crying on forums how those features suck and you hate the game in it current state bla bla bla. If you hate the system game is based on so much, go play another game... nobody is keeping you in Azeroth... jesus... By buying the game you accepted how the game is so now don't cry that you (don't) have to do grind dailies.

It's really sad how people got lazy and used to be given everything on a silver plate, wich a cherry on top. Learn 2 play or don't play, you're ruining the game for other people that accualy enjoy it.
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52 Dwarf Shaman
7115


So, basically, you want to go back to the Cataclysm model (where dungeons are the source of rewards for several avenues). The very same model the developers have said several times they would like to move away from.

And on top of that, you want to get rid of a feature of the game... just because.
You don't really seem to take into consideration that there's people that actually enjoy running dailies and they'd rather not have to do dungeons ad nauseam (there're players that feel the opposite, as well, as this thread proved).

Also, there're other methods to increase certain reputations if you truly don't want to do dailies (Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Tillers (for individual friendships), Nat Pagle (of the Anglers) and Order of the Cloud Serpent).

But at the end of the day, it feels like some of these posts have an underlying message: "I only want to do dungeons/raids (but not LFR)". And, just as we've said in the past to PVP players that the developers want them to also experience the PVE part of the game, this should probably be said for those players as well: there's all this content outside dungeons/raiding available to you, that you can do if you so wish to. But, if you're willingly chosing not to take part on *that* content, is it truly fair to ask for everyone else to be forced to do the kind of content you personally enjoy?

EDIT: Also, edited the thread title for clarity about what it's being talked here, rather than an obscure (and against the Code of Conduct) "Blue post says".


But why not make rep and charms available through many more activities? Why only dailies and Pet battles? Why limit it in any way?

There are a lot of things to do in the game: mob grinding, crafting, dailies, dungeons, pet battles. Why can't we get charms and rep from all of these? Cap them if needed, but give us the choice to do what we want. I will never understand why restrictions are put in place for something as fundamental as rep and charms. Boggles my mind.
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