World PvP: You cannot attack that target

55 Dwarf Death Knight
90
There is a difference between killing lower levels and ganking - the first is a fact of PvP servers but the second is bully tactics usually by moronic or bored people who can not win a fair fight.

Ganking to me is repeatedly killing the same character - how can anyone defend this type of action?

To those who say move servers I and my family would if you will pay to have 40+ characters and 2 guilds moved to a PvE server - we can not afford to, and why should we because of spoilt people who do not like to "play" fair.


if you are getting ganked, call your family and get them to help you kill your attacker. It's really quite simple. And fun!

It costs nothing at all to create a character on a pve server by the way.
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90 Undead Warlock
18940
Most PvP server peeps I have met insisted that they rolled their toon on such realm because they consider themselves skilled players who need the excitement of a player initated attack waiting around every corner. They spent most of their time in Stranglethorn or Tanaris, killing the lowbies.


This!
Or it's to "draw the attention of higher levels so it can become big world pvp", only to fly away as soon as a lvl 90 of the other side shows up. XD

I don't mind the ganking or the attacking only when outnumbering, but when you actually start corpsecamping lower levels over and over and over again, it's just lame imo.
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90 Human Priest
9230
17/12/2012 12:09Posted by Nightkestrel
To those who say move servers I and my family would if you will pay to have 40+ characters and 2 guilds moved to a PvE server - we can not afford to, and why should we because of spoilt people who do not like to "play" fair.


Why did you roll on a PVP server in the first place? did you not read the warnings or did you simply ignore them? When you created your character on that pvp server you agreed to the PVP server policy, part of which I quoted above.
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Please stop threads like this.
Like a certain home tutor said (and best hitman)
''this will become part of your sweet memories''

Everyone have the right of experiencing true world pvp!
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90 Night Elf Priest
6080
17/12/2012 12:20Posted by Pinatubo
Why did you roll on a PVP server in the first place? did you not read the warnings or did you simply ignore them? When you created your character on that pvp server you agreed to the PVP server policy, part of which I quoted above.


Because back when the game started we had world PvP - read my post where I said the difference between the two. Back then we could call on each other to help along will a lot of others.

Today we are always out numbered as server imbalance plays a big part too.
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1 Orc Warrior
0
Let's be clear about this.

World PvP and CRZ were NOT implemented or intended to be used for the ganking of low level characters on a (mainly PvP) realm.


This has been addressed by Blizzard US :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320822467?page=5#85


Actually no.

That guy adressed their general stance on ganking. Which has been the same since the game went live.

Like all good Blizzard employees do he skillfully avoided to even remotely acknowledge the mess that world pvp has turned into.

He avoided to mention flying mounts in the old world. Actually, flying mounts, period.
He didnt talk about CRZ destroying the meaning and the fun of the rivalry between factions -"we will meet again" oh wait no, we will actually never meet again. LOL
He never mentioned the ludicrous faction imbalances on almost all PvP servers.
There was also no mention that most games offer repercussions for "outlaw" behaviour. A lack of consequence might as well be seen as encouragment.

There's nothing wrong with ganking. It's everything else about world pvp that is wrong.
Edited by Exträm on 17/12/2012 12:31 GMT
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we had world pvp when the game came out, because people HAD TO TRAVEL, people attacked somehwere where there were people who fought back. now everyone sits on thier backside in the capital queueing for stuff. in Vanilla you had 60's in the Barrens, Ashenvale, Arathi, Hillsbrad, because BG entrances were there, we had plenty of pvp in Blackrock mountin and 60 zones as well.
do we have any 90 v 90 pvp? no, because everyone does the dailes in that zone and that is it
only people who travel are the ones questing and gankers.

regions have a level for a reason.
Edited by Phalhunt on 17/12/2012 13:30 GMT
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75 Worgen Hunter
3350
17/12/2012 10:35Posted by Làdysylvanas
And many people roll on a PvP server simply because it has a large population


And why are PvP realms so popular? It is not just the AHs - they are big because PvP realms attract players who want to PvP. And some of those players like to gank.

Ganking is not a new thing, although people seem to think it is a sudden "new" thing. It has been around since PvP realms have been around. It is just in recent years people have been padded in cotton wool. Suddenly PvP realms are back to what they used to be like and all the new-breed players are kicking up a fuss because their face-roll PvE progression on the PvP server has suddenly hit a bump in the road, and they cannot cope!

If you don't want to PvP - ROLL PVE!! THAT is what PvE servers are for!!! That is why there is a distinction between the two types. "I want to PvP, but only on my terms!". Roll PvE.

Like the OP, I too do not gank, nor do I condone it, but if it is not acceptable to anyone on a PvP realm, then they are on the wrong servers. Why do people not understand that??? The alternative is there, but they just want to hear the answers they want to hear, which is to nerf PvP realms to make them "more PvE-like"!

/bangs head on wall

If you want to benefit from "advantages" of some aspects of a busy PvP realms (and I am sure there are equal benefits from some PvE realms), you have to accept the disadvantages as well. Why does it all have to be icing for people and no cake?
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my pvp realm was quiet.
i joined a pvp realm for the challnage of tamkng an alliance creature, and to fight people my level (cant even do that with stupid looms)
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1 Orc Warrior
0
17/12/2012 13:29Posted by Borderlîne
And many people roll on a PvP server simply because it has a large population


And why are PvP realms so popular? It is not just the AHs - they are big because PvP realms attract players who want to PvP. And some of those players like to gank.


they are popular because those were the first realms where one faction became extinct due to faction imbalances.
Full servers get fuller because players from empty servers are frustrated and pay a lot of money to transfer all their characters. They want to be "where the action is" (thanks for the queues btw!)

Ganking is not a new thing, although people seem to think it is a sudden "new" thing. It has been around since PvP realms have been around. It is just in recent years people have been padded in cotton wool. Suddenly PvP realms are back to what they used to be like and all the new-breed players are kicking up a fuss because their face-roll PvE progression on the PvP server has suddenly hit a bump in the road, and they cannot cope!


No ganking is an old hat. Flying mounts are relatively new though in the old world. CRZ just magnified the issue of flying mounts because with a huge pool of griefing enthusiasts in the same zone as leveling players is bound to produce issues.

World PvP in the endgame zones didnt happen because everyone was just sitting on their mounts in safety. Lowbies cannot escape so they are feeling the wrath. It's kinda sad and nothing at all like PvP servers were back in the day. CRZ just makes everything worse because there is no connection anymore to anyone. You'll never see those guys again anyway... /yawn
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Community
Would it not be possible to mark characters (say x levels under your own) in gray, and if a player over the limit of x tries to attack they are presented with the message "you cannot attack that target"? (Similarily, a player x lvs under gets the same message if trying to attack a target x lvs over).


It’s possible to do that, but it’s just something we decide not to. PvP realms have been here since day 1. Players know what the rules are before they join a PvP realm, the environment can be frustrating at times but it can also be a lot of fun and very challenging, that’s why players they go there.
I think the difference between PvP and PvE realms was felt much deeper in the old days of vanilla. That was when world PvP was probably at its peak, places like Tarren Mill, Southshore and Tanaris were truly a permanent battle zone. But one has to realize that the game evolves and while we enjoy world PvP, we also enjoy giving players more options.

So what happened? Well for starters, battlegrounds were introduced, so a big chunk of players that was constantly doing world PvP immediately switched to Battlegrounds, these were purposely made for PvP, it’s just natural that they become more appealing and take away some of the ganking going around in the world. Even if this wasn’t probably a complete switch, it certainly reduced the average amount of players out in the world looking for PvP. Is this a bad thing? That depends on whether you prefer world PvP or Battlegrounds.
Then we had some more game expansions and in addition to the classic Battlegrounds we got Arenas and even more Battlegrounds. We also introduced quality of life (controversial, we know!) queuing systems where we let people instantly teleport into dungeons/raids without risking their necks out there in the wilderness.

Without getting into much detail, the point is, as time went on, the amount of players out in the world got reduced, while the amount of players inside cities increased, this created 2 issues: one, it increased the likelihood of low level ganking to occur, since levelling players tend to quest and they have to be out there in the world to do so; and two, it decreased the chance of someone high level being around you to defend the members of his own faction.

So, yes, world PvP decreased significantly but we’re trying to turn that around with Mists of Pandaria.
My whole point is that, between vanilla and Mists, world PvP changed so much that making the choice between being on a PvE or PvP realm might have stopped being as hard to make as it used to be, but the fact remains that PvP realms were always meant to be about freedom, allowing factions to feel that they are truly at war, how can you feel that if you suddenly have restrictions on how/who/when you can attack?

Personally I welcome this change of direction with Mists but I look at it very carefully as this isn’t vanilla anymore and there a lot of variables that we need to pay close attention to if we want to make world PvP as entertaining as it once was. I’m talking about faction imbalance on certain realms (where possibly CRZ tech might be able to help out), flying mounts as easy ways to escape danger, and lack of the “I’ll get my revenge soon” feeling with CRZ possibly reducing the chance of the same players seeing each other again.
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81 Orc Hunter
1195
17/12/2012 15:39Posted by Taepsilum
flying mounts as easy ways to escape danger, and lack of the “I’ll get my revenge soon” feeling with CRZ possibly reducing the chance of the same players seeing each other again.


Any update on this? Flying mounts make it so easy to escape, do you feel like the Hardened shell is enough? The cd is kinda high, and it's the only item to dismount players afaik.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6176110

What about the use of flying mounts? Many players are concerned about the use of flying mounts to avoid having to ever engage in PvP on PvP realms.

Tom Chilton - We know this is a concern and we have some things in mind for helping in this regard. First, we’re limiting the use of flying mounts within Mists of Pandaria to level 90. Second, with so many players taking part in the quest hubs, we think we’ll see a lot more PvP happening out in the world. After all, you have to land sometime. If that’s not enough though, we have an item that we’re adding to the game that players will be able to use from the ground that makes it possible to dismount a flying enemy player (within a reasonable range and PvP flagged). We’re still discussing the particulars of how this item will be available.
Edited by Tublat on 17/12/2012 15:59 GMT
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90 Draenei Shaman
11825
17/12/2012 15:39Posted by Taepsilum
It’s possible to do that, but it’s just something we decide not to.


What they are saying is: "We can fix that but we won't so you have to realm change to pve servers and pay us some money". That reminded of a cheat code from warcraft 3 "greedisgood"
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1 Orc Warrior
0
17/12/2012 15:39Posted by Taepsilum
Personally I welcome this change of direction with Mists but I look at it very carefully as this isn’t vanilla anymore and there a lot of variables that we need to pay close attention to if we want to make world PvP as entertaining as it once was. I’m talking about faction imbalance on certain realms (where possibly CRZ tech might be able to help out), flying mounts as easy ways to escape danger, and lack of the “I’ll get my revenge soon” feeling with CRZ possibly reducing the chance of the same players seeing each other again.


So glad to read this, especially about flying mounts and the feeling of never meeting people from CRZ again to get revenge (or having to watch your back if you made one too many enemies)!!
Are these things you are personally concerned about or can you share if they are being investigated already by the developers?
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55 Dwarf Death Knight
90
17/12/2012 15:39Posted by Taepsilum
Would it not be possible to mark characters (say x levels under your own) in gray, and if a player over the limit of x tries to attack they are presented with the message "you cannot attack that target"? (Similarily, a player x lvs under gets the same message if trying to attack a target x lvs over).


It’s possible to do that, but it’s just something we decide not to. PvP realms have been here since day 1. Players know what the rules are before they join a PvP realm, the environment can be frustrating at times but it can also be a lot of fun and very challenging, that’s why players they go there. I think the difference between PvP and PvE realms was felt much deeper in the old days of vanilla. That was when world PvP was probably at its peak, places like Tarren Mill, Southshore and Tanaris were truly a permanent battle zone. But one has to realize that the game evolves and while we enjoy world PvP, we also enjoy giving players more options.

So what happened? Well for starters, battlegrounds were introduced, so a big chunk of players that was constantly doing world PvP immediately switched to Battlegrounds, these were purposely made for PvP, it’s just natural that they become more appealing and take away some of the ganking going around in the world. Even if this wasn’t probably a complete switch, it certainly reduced the average amount of players out in the world looking for PvP. Is this a bad thing? That depends on whether you prefer world PvP or Battlegrounds.
Then we had some more game expansions and in addition to the classic Battlegrounds we got Arenas and even more Battlegrounds. We also introduced quality of life (controversial, we know!) queuing systems where we let people instantly teleport into dungeons/raids without risking their necks out there in the wilderness.

Without getting into much detail, the point is, as time went on, the amount of players out in the world got reduced, while the amount of players inside cities increased, this created 2 issues: one, it increased the likelihood of low level ganking to occur, since levelling players tend to quest and they have to be out there in the world to do so; and two, it decreased the chance of someone high level being around you to defend the members of his own faction.

So, yes, world PvP decreased significantly but we’re trying to turn that around with Mists of Pandaria.
My whole point is that, between vanilla and Mists, world PvP changed so much that making the choice between being on a PvE or PvP realm might have stopped being as hard to make as it used to be, but the fact remains that PvP realms were always meant to be about freedom, allowing factions to feel that they are truly at war, how can you feel that if you suddenly have restrictions on how/who/when you can attack?

Personally I welcome this change of direction with Mists but I look at it very carefully as this isn’t vanilla anymore and there a lot of variables that we need to pay close attention to if we want to make world PvP as entertaining as it once was. I’m talking about faction imbalance on certain realms (where possibly CRZ tech might be able to help out), flying mounts as easy ways to escape danger, and lack of the “I’ll get my revenge soon” feeling with CRZ possibly reducing the chance of the same players seeing each other again.


really encouraging reply ^^

often when I read a blue post I groan, but this is good stuff
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17/12/2012 15:50Posted by Münjica
It’s possible to do that, but it’s just something we decide not to.


What they are saying is: "We can fix that but we won't so you have to realm change to pve servers and pay us some money". That reminded of a cheat code from warcraft 3 "greedisgood"


Or start pvping for those that rolled on it? You know like ask faction members to help or guild and so on? Don;t have guild? - join one to be able to fight the war...

I mean really it encourages you to look at options and play more, what is bad about it?!
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90 Draenei Shaman
11825
17/12/2012 15:56Posted by Phenom
Or start pvping for those that rolled on it? You know like ask faction members to help or guild and so on? Don;t have guild? - join one to be able to fight the war...


I usually do that, but those who gank low level players are cowards. It's usually rogue who vanish the same moment it kill low level when there is player of the same level nearby.
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- World of Warcraft
90 Human Priest
8665
It’s possible to do that, but it’s just something we decide not to.


What they are saying is: "We can fix that but we won't so you have to realm change to pve servers and pay us some money". That reminded of a cheat code from warcraft 3 "greedisgood"


Your "game fix" is by "game break". I enjoy levelling characters on PVP realms and have done for years. I have tons of HKs and I have been ganked countless times.

The game isn't broken, if the game was broken purely because it didn't fit one persons tastes then it would be impossible to fix.
Edited by Lumatar on 17/12/2012 16:09 GMT
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The reason I no longer PVP out in the world. (Yes I play on a PVE realm, but even those realms had a bit of world PVP.) is quite simply the introduction of pure PVP gear. Now, if I'm doing quests in a world PVP area, lets say domination quests in MOP, I'll never turn my PVP on anymore, because I don't stand a chance in PVE gear vs PVP geared players.

I'd never run into a BG in PVE gear, but I have to have PVE gear on during world PVP. It's not a level playing field.
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Let's be clear about this.

World PvP and CRZ were NOT implemented or intended to be used for the ganking of low level characters on a (mainly PvP) realm.


Take CRZ out of that statement and you have the exact reason why WPvP Exists. Its not supposed to be fair, you should accept being ganked and camped for hours.

This enables lower lv players to continue their levelling up, and keeps WPvP in the use it was designed/intended for (players of similar lv to your own).


WPvP was never intended to be solely for equal level players. The whole point of being on a PvP realm is that you accept the risk of being PvP flagged.

What has happened in recent expansions is that there are too few players out in the world as 90% of the time you are idling in Org or SW. Low levels on PvP servers got used to not having any problems.

Now that people are effectively out in the world again that comfort zone is removed and its come as a shock to some.

Bottom line. Dont want to WPvP? Roll on a normal realm.
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