The new gear system in 5.2 announced.

100 Undead Mage
13520
Why not just make a transmogation armor for 2.2k rating?

PVP ARENA has ALWAYS had a HIGH RATED ARMOR, from the very start of Arena in TBC.

Please, removing this wont fix it, it will just make it worse. I want it to be like before, in TBC and WOTLK but I can understand there are new tidings now and we are playing in MOP. But why make it worse?

As I mentioned earlier, everything you need to know:

No motivation to even attempt in getting higher

Mount? Useless ,cannot be used while fighting

TitleS? Nobody watches them during PvP.

Pets? The absolutely most unescessary thing in the game.

Armor in the other hand, is cool. Like in medieval times, Knights had better armor than the raggarmuffins.

In this case, the people without rating are the ragarmuffins, such as myself.

Generals have cooler armor than their soldiers, that can also be linked to this.

The stats can be the same, but it does deserve a cooler and more neat looking armor for higher arena rating.

PvE challenges still got their "elite" armor? Why wouldn't PvP have it?
+1
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48 Undead Warrior
170
Gotta love that everyone actually being above 2.2k or even higher thinks this is a great change (with some exceptions) and the ones breaking 2.2k sometime or not at all like Draugarth are the ones shouting. It's about competition, this makes it better.

Get logic or die trying?
Edited by Warreren on 20/01/2013 14:02 GMT
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90 Undead Priest
12260
Honestly this is bringing a lot of balance to arena pvp. Will definitly make it easier to balance classes in arena aswell.

The vanity items problem is easy to solve though, just put conquest points requirements on the vanity things. For example:

X Gladiator tabard (Requires 24000 conquest points earned in season X)

Now they'll be like: "Wow but then everyone will get it D:::". And I'll be like: "Ye but all pro's have it 4 weeks earlier, showing off there amazing stuff".
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87 Undead Warlock
10840
20/01/2013 05:04Posted by Illyana
It means the people that has gotten boosted, wintraded for season upon seasson. The people that has had so much fun owning people with their gear and not skill making the game miserable for the rest, cant own anymore OMFG how dare you.


yes but also ppl like you who have no exp in PvP but want everything just handed out to them.. right?

PvE-ers, Glads, low rated PvPers find this change good, why ?
Cause Glads can pwn anyway, PvErs will get everything for doing nothing and that also goes for low rated PvPers, but ppl for wich is was actually hard to get 2.2k arena rated will never get any recocnision anymore since you cant get Glad with 2.2k lol so their rating wont mean a thing since they wont get rewarded., how about that?

Still PvE has their special challange mode gear but our PvP elite gear just get shared with everyone LOL, pls name it differently cause its not so elite to grind 27k points and nothing more.

20/01/2013 14:02Posted by Futsy
Honestly this is bringing a lot of balance to arena pvp. Will definitly make it easier to balance classes in arena aswell.


yes this is indeed true and thats what i do like about this, but it still wouldnt be the same, since their taking all the rewards of even having motivation to get to 2.2k vanity rewards are uselles in arena however i would love a X mount at 2k and a X2 mount at 2.2k for example, but it would be still need to be looked at

What i dont get is they allready decided they gonna remove the 2.2k requirement on gear and gief it to everyone, but THEY DIDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT SOMETHING IN REPLACE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY DO GET 2.2k NEXT SEASON

Thats so confussion, they should think !@#$ tru first then make a post :P
Edited by Jabberwócky on 20/01/2013 14:09 GMT
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90 Orc Death Knight
7395
20/01/2013 14:06Posted by Jabberwócky
It means the people that has gotten boosted, wintraded for season upon seasson. The people that has had so much fun owning people with their gear and not skill making the game miserable for the rest, cant own anymore OMFG how dare you.


yes but also ppl like you who have no exp in PvP but want everything just handed out to them.. right?

PvE-ers, Glads, low rated PvPers find this change good, why ?
Cause Glads can pwn anyway, PvErs will get everything for doing nothing and that also goes for low rated PvPers, but ppl for wich is was actually hard to get 2.2k arena rated will never get any recocnision anymore since you cant get Glad with 2.2k lol so their rating wont mean a thing since they wont get rewarded., how about that?

Still PvE has their special challange mode gear but our PvP elite gear just get shared with everyone LOL, pls name it differently cause its not so elite to grind 27k points and nothing more.

Honestly this is bringing a lot of balance to arena pvp. Will definitly make it easier to balance classes in arena aswell.


yes this is indeed true and thats what i do like about this, but it still wouldnt be the same, since their taking all the rewards of even having motivation to get to 2.2k vanity rewards are uselles in arena however i would love a X mount at 2k and a X2 mount at 2.2k for example, but it would be still need to be looked at

What i dont get is they allready decided they gonna remove the 2.2k requirement on gear and gief it to everyone, but THEY DIDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT SOMETHING IN REPLACE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY DO GET 2.2k NEXT SEASON

Thats so confussion, they should think !@#$ tru first then make a post :P


How do you know if i have no pvp exp? Just because i dont do arena or rbg and only do bg's i have no exp? Are you so dumb that you think only Arena/rbg gives pvp exp?

Ofc i can go out and get 2.2k rating today in the same way as prob 80% of the 2,2k rated people got it. Will that give me more credibility? If you get blinded by that number it just shows how dumb you are.

And about getting everything handed out to me pls explain how every thing is handed out just because they take away the rated restrictions. Nothing is handed out you still have to buy a piece or 2 of gear every week. It's not like they give every one full gear set at the start of the patch. Only difference is now i can play the game the way i enjoy it and not being forced to do something i dont like aka Arena/rbg.

If you like arena/rbg good for you get gear that way and get the gear faster if you enjoy bg's get the gear that way only slower. Having restrictions on gear makes no sense unless its cosmetic gear that im fine with.
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90 Orc Warrior
7135
Why not just make a transmogation armor for 2.2k rating?



Team Rating Inflation
As we’ve mentioned previously, we want to see the ladder rankings decided toward the end of a season, and not a foregone conclusion dictated by what happens at the start. As discussed in the PvP in Mists of Pandaria Dev Watercooler, as of patch 5.2 Team Rating will gradually increase as players participate in PvP over the course of the season. We expect the new system to help ensure that the ladder remains active at all ratings and that the competition stays fierce from start to finish.


That's probably why it's not that easy. The arena rating inflation makes it so much more easier to achieve 2.2k later on the season compared to early or midseason and their goal is to keep folks playing.

My suggestion would be to indeed make a new transmog set, title and mount rewards for goals to aim for. However as the whole system is turned into a grind with a competitive twist for a change(don't get me wrong, I really like the idea!) I think the fitting rewards would be "grindable" too.

What if they gave you one piece of the transmog armor set every week you were at certain rank? For example 1 piece of equipment per week for everyone in top 5%? After you've achieved the whole set you'd gain title, and finally the mount. That way this system would reward being active and on top of the competition throughout many weeks. Also it would be very expensive to buy these rewards from professional farmers or wintraders since it would take a lot of work over long period of time instead of a single push/wintrading for the 2.2k rating.
Edited by Ukkeniov on 20/01/2013 14:44 GMT
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90 Human Rogue
14725
I think a nice mount at certain tresholds in arena would be a nice replacement for gear rewardings at 2.2k, making it still something they can use to show off a little.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7395
20/01/2013 14:57Posted by Trînity
I think a nice mount at certain tresholds in arena would be a nice replacement for gear rewardings at 2.2k, making it still something they can use to show off a little.


If they give something like that in pvp the boosting and wintrading would be even worse then it is now.

The only thing higher rating should give is cosmetic gear like the Elite gear same stats different color nothing else.
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Blizzard why not remove "elite gear" since people with elite gear have a better advantage against players with non-elite gear.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7115
18/01/2013 13:51Posted by Nakatoir
If you are better than another player then you wouldn't really need better stats, you should be able to beat them with equal level gear.


Because of RNG.

Give a noob a death star, eventually he will blow your planet.

Whats the point of any gear then Mr Nakatoir? Why we dont go into arena without gear, naked, fist fighting? We don't need more stats, take off PVP gear, we use only skills from this day.
We shall conquer!

Why the hell we all fight so much for PVP gear if we dont need more stats, guys, Nakatior is totally right! We dont need anything but a naked character and skill!

Oh, and vanity!
Edited by Valdmaniene on 20/01/2013 22:27 GMT
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90 Worgen Rogue
7300
one thing i want to include back on a blue post i got(character called scrubbles) they said yes they have mentioned about that they are going to bring mroe vanity items, but in my honest opinion they have worded these changes horribly
if they had writen it differently i dont think this thread would have 9/10 of the comments it has. they put it badly and this caused everyone to panic because with some past changes alot of people dont trust blizz. its entirely possible its all going to turn out how we want it to and better, but because they didnt understand the reasons behind everyone loving elite gear(going from what ive read here) they made it sound as if it was bye bye to it all.
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90 Human Warrior
10420
I think for making this game realy balanced. then should blizzard remove all stats from every gear.

why im saying this? because it will make it easier to balance this game.
classes would have diffrent health pools and depended on spec.
Gear will be equipped as transmorg gear to show off
Blizzard would then only focus on the stats from classes and which spells would need a buff or a nerf.

because atm nerfing a spell for pvp can effect pve aswell and the other way around and the gears give diffrent stats and therefore need diffrent nerfs, buff and which make it aloth harder to balance it out.
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Why the hell we all fight so much for PVP gear if we dont need more stats, guys, Nakatior is totally right! We dont need anything but a naked character and skill!

Oh, and vanity!


He's right though.

IF you go into PvP without gear, then odds are the better player will win. The better player will get the reward. And he'll win not because he had better gear, but because he deserved it. He fought better.

Of course, maybe the worse player will win. Maybe he'll just play better that time, maybe the RNG will just go with him. Upsets do happen, after all.

But at least he wouldn't win because his gear was better. And it'll likely happen a lot less often

As it is, PvP is imbalanced. And there are many sources for that imbalance. Gear is simply the one they can most easily get rid of.

EJL
Edited by Talen on 21/01/2013 07:31 GMT
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90 Human Paladin
7485
People who does not approve of equally geared players in *PvP are cowards
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21/01/2013 05:59Posted by Dakotå
I think for making this game realy balanced. then should blizzard remove all stats from every gear.


That would help in removing one source of imbaalnce withint he game. But it isn't the only one.

Blizzard would need to do what it has so far refused to do...separate PvE and PvP entirely.

For example, this would be somethinh akin to what would need to be done to .....

1: Gear
Damage separted out into PvP damage and PvE damage. You could do this by, as an example, increasing Resilience to a 100% DR value. That is, attacks do zero damage to players. Now....gear doesn't affect damage.

2: Abilities to be modified
Gear doesn't affect damage. Buit we need that for PvP. So......each ability now does PvP damage, using the current PvP Power mechanic. This would bring in abilities such as:
Mortal Strike: Deals X%-Y% of targets maxmium health.

So we end up with a situation where moves can be balanced around an encounter of known difficulty. Then we make use of the Battle Fatigue mechanic to control healing ability. Possibly make that a self inflicted debuff - if you attack another player, YOU get the Battle fatigue debuff.

Now, these suggestions are simplistic but show a possible scenario where Gear - and in the above example, level - are removed from consideration in PvP. However, it doesn't get rid of all imbalances. Some classes, some specs are better suited for PvP.

The above idea may need to be adjusted for the possibility of gemming and enchantign for even greater PvP viability. The question would need to be raised - if gear has no impact on PvP, does the game need specialised PvP armor? Would the standard PvE sets not be sufficient? Could the PvP sets be (as an example) simple transmog sets available only to the winnners? Or would you need some other sets of rewards? CC and counters would need to be re-examined as well. And woudl you need to look at the structur e of Arenas? Would short 1 or 2 week tournies leading up to a quarterly World Championship be an idea for example instead of seasons that an last months?

But, with this system...PvE and PvP damage would be separated, possibly even without affecting the core rotation. You'd save bag space by avoiding the need to carry around multiple armor sets. You'd open up world PvP to all players, you'd be able to integrate PvP into more arenas in the game, there would be no barrier to entry into PvP - it would simply be another aspect of the game.

But - this would get rid of the grind that Blizzard relies upon to keep PvPers in the game. It gets rid of the reward that such players strive towards in favor of an untested vanity item approach. It acts to counter griefing and ganking but maybe Blizzard want that in game.

EJL
Edited by Talen on 21/01/2013 09:04 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
7300
If you are better than another player then you wouldn't really need better stats, you should be able to beat them with equal level gear.


Because of RNG.

Give a noob a death star, eventually he will blow your planet.

Whats the point of any gear then Mr Nakatoir? Why we dont go into arena without gear, naked, fist fighting? We don't need more stats, take off PVP gear, we use only skills from this day.
We shall conquer!

Why the hell we all fight so much for PVP gear if we dont need more stats, guys, Nakatior is totally right! We dont need anything but a naked character and skill!

Oh, and vanity!
you are annoying as Well as a crying wuss and your mentallity is unsympathetic and stands in contrast to the idea of fairness upon which all? Sports are build. Your deathstar anology is also pathetic, and an insult to the star wars universe in general.
Edited by Retnuhdot on 21/01/2013 10:36 GMT
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90 Orc Warrior
7135

1: Gear
Damage separted out into PvP damage and PvE damage. You could do this by, as an example, increasing Resilience to a 100% DR value. That is, attacks do zero damage to players. Now....gear doesn't affect damage.


What? Why? The craftable pvp set is better for pvp than the best pve set available due to resilience and pvp power. The elite pvp set is worse than the LFR stuff for PvE.
The PvE and PvP gear are completely separate already.

After 5.2 everyone who plays pvp actively has the same level of gear, and even those who start late will catch up. I see no problem here.

2: Abilities to be modified
Gear doesn't affect damage. Buit we need that for PvP. So......each ability now does PvP damage, using the current PvP Power mechanic. This would bring in abilities such as:
Mortal Strike: Deals X%-Y% of targets maxmium health.


There are plenty of abilities which work differently in PvP and PvE. Plenty of stuns, slows, sleeps, fears etc have different durations in PvE and PvP. Also abilities such as taste for blood work differently in PvE and PvP. They are working hard to keep the abilities balanced.

Now, these suggestions are simplistic but show a possible scenario where Gear - and in the above example, level - are removed from consideration in PvP. However, it doesn't get rid of all imbalances. Some classes, some specs are better suited for PvP.


Yes, Blizzard is monitoring and addressing this very radically. For example warriors are now waaay overpresented in top ratings, hence they get toned down for next patch. Dpsmonks and rogues are nonexistant in high ratings and they get buffs.

The above idea may need to be adjusted for the possibility of gemming and enchantign for even greater PvP viability. The question would need to be raised - if gear has no impact on PvP, does the game need specialised PvP armor? Would the standard PvE sets not be sufficient? Could the PvP sets be (as an example) simple transmog sets available only to the winnners? Or would you need some other sets of rewards? CC and counters would need to be re-examined as well. And woudl you need to look at the structur e of Arenas? Would short 1 or 2 week tournies leading up to a quarterly World Championship be an idea for example instead of seasons that an last months?


Character progression via gear is core part of the game. I want to see my character grow stronger all the time. However I wish the competitive pvp(arena&RBG) would have people with same gear level. This is what will happen in 5.2. People who actively PvP will always have similar gearlevel, but the game still allows your character to grow stronger against those who do not actively participate in competitive PvP.

But, with this system...PvE and PvP damage would be separated, possibly even without affecting the core rotation. You'd save bag space by avoiding the need to carry around multiple armor sets. You'd open up world PvP to all players, you'd be able to integrate PvP into more arenas in the game, there would be no barrier to entry into PvP - it would simply be another aspect of the game.


Why? I'm not sure if I understand what your are saying here...
PvP is simply another aspect of the game at it is. If you feel your bagspace is limited you don't need to carry the armor in your bags, you can store it in your bank if you wish. PvP gear is strong enough for questing and soloing. For raids you can always visit your bank beforehand.

But - this would get rid of the grind that Blizzard relies upon to keep PvPers in the game. It gets rid of the reward that such players strive towards in favor of an untested vanity item approach. It acts to counter griefing and ganking but maybe Blizzard want that in game.


The whole game is a grind, period. It has to be to an endless grind to keep mass of players interested.

Do you think ganking and griefing is a problem in the game currently? I've leveled two characters to 60 in vanilla, three to 70 in TBC, one to 80 in Wotlk and two to 90 in MoP and I've never thought it was a problem. It happens sometimes, but it is kind of part of the game. The best way to get rid of it/reduce it would be making cc spells and abilities resist rates unaffected by players levels. That would suck majorly, though.
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Community
I am just going to jump in here again and respond to a few of the points that have been raised so far in this thread, but have not received a response.
18/01/2013 17:39Posted by Dagran
I approve this change but more rewards for PvP have to be given!
We have a cosmetically different and unique weapon enchant planned to be available at 2200 rating. We are also looking into the possibility of adding in some additional vanity items and rewards that can be earned at various ratings.

Whats the point in having elite gear at all with this change?
Why not just remove it?
The reason it's not simply removed is because with this change we are making it so that there's a difference in stats between the normal and elite versions, while it is not nearly as big as the difference between the Malevolent and Tyrannical gear, it's still desirable. The problem that lies in the current system we use is that you have 2 sets of PvP gear (Honor and Conquest) comparatively to there being four levels of gear for PvE (LFR, Valor, Normal and Heroic raid).

You need to remember that the Honor gear cannot be so good that it substitutes dungeon gear as an LFR entry item or is better than loot from LFR, Conquest gear cannot be better for PvE than the Heroic raid items, but both need to be stronger in PvP than their counterparts. This ends up creating a system where we have to balance two tiers of items against four, meaning there's a void for upgrades between Honor and Conquest items.

This new system means that we will now have four sets of PvP gear (Dreadful, Malevolent, Tyrannical and Elite Tyrannical) to scale up with the PvE sets so that the stats will increase in a much more gradual manner. So we can now avoid the gap in upgrades caused by having only two sets of PvP gear.

18/01/2013 15:02Posted by Akarina
This means that you can get 27k Conq Points over say 3 months, dont spend them, and then buy they full set of Elite gear in 5.2.
Ooooh... You so sneaky! :O

Your plans have already been thwarted, though :) Not only will you be having some trouble competing with those that have started buying the normal version of the Tyrannical gear while you are waiting, there is also a 5000 Conquest point cap. This will prevent you from saving up your points, so it is definitely recommended that you buy the normal version before you get the elite one to avoid missing out on gear. ;)
Edited by Nakatoir on 21/01/2013 12:56 GMT
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5 Tauren Paladin
0
all bad/average ppl pvp will salute this chance good pvper(2200+rat) will hate.
blizz make this chance because the 2200 pvper are very minority in comunity
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