Why MoP ruined the game for casual players

90 Draenei Priest
8445
it's funny when peoples with no previous raid progress call other peoples lazy and noob because they don't want to spend all day doing mindless grinding, there is a diffrence between being noob/stupid (can't understand tactics for a boss fight even tho you've watched the tactic and whiped more than 4-5 times) and being lazy as you call it. Lazy in this sence would be not suffer from OCD. This type of gameplay attract a crowd that lives for their hours spent doing this very task, and its to no supprise the loudest voices on this thread is a yes sayer to dailys.
90 Human Paladin
10770
Won't even mention the not "alt friendly" subject...


Because if you'd bothered to play at all you'd have revered by now. Thus would have bought the commendation tokens and have factions you are revered with just by doing the associated zone?

Ooooh, you're one of those "not interested in obvious, existing solutions" people.
Edited by Mercutío on 15/01/2013 16:33 GMT
90 Troll Hunter
9630
Also, I am tired of this kind of threads. So...

I will ook into a dooker everyone who will say that dailies are obligatory and bad!

Yes. This is a threat.
90 Human Paladin
10770
15/01/2013 16:25Posted by Paskal
it's funny when peoples with no previous raid progress call other peoples lazy and noob because they don't want to spend all day doing mindless grinding, there is a diffrence between being noob/stupid (can't understand tactics for a boss fight even tho you've watched the tactic and whiped more than 4-5 times) and being lazy as you call it. Lazy in this sence would be not suffer from OCD. This type of gameplay attract a crowd that lives for their hours spent doing this very task, and its to no supprise the loudest voices on this thread is a yes sayer to dailys.


Would you care to offer an alternative then?

I don't see how "I wanna put a tabard on and run the same heroics endlessly" is a more viable solution.

Maybe you'd like a crafting quest associated with the reputation? They give u 300 rep per item you either spend time gathering mats for or buy for 400g from the AH?

Maybe you'd like to straight grind for items a certain few mobs drop for rep? Does that sound more like fun?

What would you rather do? Maybe it should just be a counter that ticks along and delivers you epics after so many hours?

Or..... I know..... how about they have quests for you to do?!
15/01/2013 15:48Posted by Afgaad
do. I enjoy them, I find them useful to do something outside my daily dungeon/raid routine.

Sure go ahead and lie but please try not to make it that obvious.
If you find them useful and enjoyable, you must be flying around in orgrimmar/stormwind waiting for something to happen because that's the only thing i know is worse than questing.
And how dare you defend the content??? We both know it's crap and the one who created it deserves to hear it.


Sorry but you can't call me a liar because you don't like my opinion. If you don't like questing, that's all fine (in fact, there's plenty of players out there that don't like having to level when a new expansion is launched), but you can't pretend your opinion is an universal, undisputable truth and everyone else is just a liar.
90 Worgen Druid
12780
Probably been posted already (I hope) but gonna post it again anyway...

Dailies shouldn't be tied to character strength in any way. They are not optional otherwise. I still don't get how people don't see this. Anglers? Cloud Serpent? Fine. Remember Netherwing dailies? Optional. They should only give titles/vanity items/mounts/lfr quality items. Molten Front dailies... not everyone liked them but they offered exactly the right things in terms of rewards. Gear just below T12 but above T11, very cool mount for finishing all achieves, and a title for exalted.

Dailies also shouldn't be the only way to get charms. Bosses should drop them. You use them to get an extra chance at loot FROM BOSSES! If the item refuses to drop (11x Kings 7x Tsulong for first 2h weapon) at least players get a consolation prize from their preferred content.

I don't want to be forced to do dailies to be prepared for raid content. It's absurd on so many levels to say charms are optional. You are letting your raid team down and holding them back if you refuse to farm them.

I shouldn't have to be forced to grind rep from dailies to even be eligible for VP items. Why were they even tied to dailies to begin with? Non optional. Again, maybe if they were lower ilvl they wouldn't be so mandatory to so many players.
84 Dwarf Mage
11655
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
Have you considered the sole fact you can't do that is one of the reasons you've got something to do for longer rather than be done with everything in a single day and the complain for the next 3 weeks there's nothing to do?


Luckily we had a lot of things to do in WOTLK, with 10 and 25 mans being seperated. Oh, how I loved to do 10 mans on off-days. Could pug them too, because 10 mans were easier than 25.

I spent all my time doing what I like about this game, which is dungeons and raids. I didn't waste much time bothering about factions. Maxed out the ones I needed through the fastest possible means and then never bothered with them again.

I also dislike how alt-unfriendly this expansion is. Dungeons, PvP, AoE farming, nothing is viable compared to mindless questing.
90 Orc Hunter
8515
Sure go ahead and lie but please try not to make it that obvious.
If you find them useful and enjoyable, you must be flying around in orgrimmar/stormwind waiting for something to happen because that's the only thing i know is worse than questing.
And how dare you defend the content??? We both know it's crap and the one who created it deserves to hear it.


What a totally ridiculous response, I enjoy the dailies, and I find them fun to do, in future if you have an opinion which you believe is true, at least have the balls to post on your main.
90 Human Death Knight
13085
While I'm not a huge fan of dailies I have to say that this is better than those dungeon tabards... It just made reputations matter again (During cata you didn't even notice they were there, was kinda automatic...) and pushed people into the wild (Everyone was stuck at SW after reaching 85... there was just nothing to do after 85 out in the world...)

Dailies aren't a joy on their own, but they do add a lot to "world" of warcraft. I would agree more or with different solutions that also bring people into the world... just not the tabbard solution.

If they go back to the tabbard solution I would rather they just remove reputations, as the difference would be very, very little.

I find it strange that people like the OP complain that they don't have time for A or B so they just want it free... CMON... this is a game, can't u realize that free stuff has no value? doesn't matter if its greens/blues/purples/oranges... if its free its worthless...
If you get everything with no effort, what's the point of playing the game and competing...
90 Blood Elf Priest
14755
13/01/2013 20:25Posted by Jethrow
As I'm writing this, I haven't logged on for about three weeks, and I am considering cancelling my account, because the game simply isn't playable for casual fun anymore. Sure, I can level up new characters, explore and do that sort of thing, but where's the progress in that? In Vanilla, TBC, WotLK and Cata I could play 1-2 hours every night and maybe on saturdays, and I'd do good progression. Now, that's not possible anymore.


I wouldn't define casual player as someone who plays once a month, or doesn't play for three weeks, would suck if Blizzard catered for those who log in once a month. Also, of course progress raiding isn't possible for you if you don't log in for 3 weeks straight.
90 Undead Hunter
9615
15/01/2013 16:45Posted by Draztal
Sorry but you can't call me a liar because you don't like my opinion. If you don't like questing, that's all fine (in fact, there's plenty of players out there that don't like having to level when a new expansion is launched), but you can't pretend your opinion is an universal, undisputable truth and everyone else is just a liar.


HAHAHAHA I though spanish forums put you in troubles, but i can prove that we are not that bad after all :)
Edited by Hernancortes on 15/01/2013 17:09 GMT
9 Tauren Paladin
0
I don't think MoP ruined the game for casuals but I do think not being able to spend your valor points on gear without doing dailies does ruins one of the best features ever added to WoW, the badges of justice. And that kinda sucks.

The items were always up for grabs if you had the badges or the points. A few pieces for your alt or maybe a piece for your main when RNG is working against you or whatever. Now you need to do dailies to be able to use the system. On every character. Not fun.
Edited by Battlecattle on 15/01/2013 17:22 GMT
90 Dwarf Hunter
1345
come dude you pay for the subscription and you still play the game i know there are alot of dayles to do nowadays but it keeps the game going to you are not satified with what you are paying for then dont pay it other wise dont complain if you did it all in like 10-30 mins a day you would be bored and still have something to complain about. i for one dont see a problem with it i have a few lvl 90's and i am a casual player and donmt have a problem with the length of time they are if you cannot find the time to do them all do some one day and others the next. Once you get used to knowing were they all are and how to do them i bet you will eventual do them much quicker.
90 Dwarf Hunter
0
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
I do. I enjoy them, I find them useful to do something outside my daily dungeon/raid routine. I've only stopped running them once I've hit exalted with all Pandaria factions to instead run scenarios, old raids and PVP.


I find them quite relaxing actually, you don't have to think to hard all the time and is nice to give your brain a rest and still manage to make some progress.
90 Blood Elf Priest
11075
When MoP was announced some of details made me falsely think that gear upgrading would be the prominent feature to keep your gear up to date. I thought valor points would be just the currency to use that feature and doing dailes was one of the ways to earn it. Instead there we we have seen valor point gear barricaded behind reputations. The biggest problem is that there are not other reliable ways to earn reputation as we had on the past and there is not a dedicated valor point gear vendor that sells perhaps abit lower ilevel gear for those who utterly hate reputation grinding. The truth is that dailes do give you a feel of being burned out and only the 5.1 ones were refreshing for their engaging story.
90 Dwarf Hunter
0
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Casual, means somebody who isn't rushed, who doesn't need to be the best of the best.
Just enjoying the game at a "casual" rate. Doing things at his own leisure, and generally not caring about how fast he gets to end game (if that person would actually get there in the first place).

All these complaints of not having enough time seem to be coming from another type of people: Hardcore players with little time.

And yes, as a hardcore player with little time, indeed, this is bad design.
But then again... is it Blizzard's fault that you have little time? is it Blizzard's fault that you wish to be a hardcore player?
To both: no, it isn't.

It's your choice to be a hardcore player. And indeed, making the content in such a way that you can burst through them in two days, means that for all the other players who like to take their time, or the ones who rush through it all to get to the end game as fast as possible means that they indeed do it within 3 days, and then are bored for a couple of months, because they did everything already.
THAT would be bad game design.

Ergo, it's your own fault for having a different playstyle that doesn't really work all too well with an MMO. Trying to be as fast as possible without actually having the time to put into the game.

So in my eyes, there's two options: Either find more time to play.
Or become an ACTUAL casual player, and don't complain so much and just enjoy the game as how it is presented.
And if it's just not entertaining, then fine, it's not entertaining and find a different game to try and enjoy.


Wow so true its not even real.

13/01/2013 20:25Posted by Jethrow
I am a teacher by education, which means that in addition to an 8 AM - 15 PM workday, I have at least 2-3 hours of extra work when I get home. Add driving to work, cooking food, spending time with friends and family, I am left with very, very little time to play. And that's where my problem comes in.


I am an A-B grade student, who needs to revise for his final year. Visit family, take the bus to and from school. Complete homework, occasionally share the computer and go to a range of activities I do out side of school...

And I still have time for dailies!

Also saying MMO's take to long? Might as well ask for an RTS to be easy, or a Sandbox game to have lots of set goals.
90 Troll Druid
15030

Sorry but you can't call me a liar because you don't like my opinion. If you don't like questing, that's all fine (in fact, there's plenty of players out there that don't like having to level when a new expansion is launched), but you can't pretend your opinion is an universal, undisputable truth and everyone else is just a liar.


So you're like OOooooh new day!!! NEED DAILYS, it's so fun, there is nothing i'd rather do!!

I can't think of a situation of barely anyone that choses to play this game, which would cause them to enjoy doing the same quests, day after day after day, and still say that it's "fun". I don't I'd go as far as telling there's AT LEAST a good 80% of the players wouldn't want to run around every day doing 30+ quests, to obtain their coins so they can max out their character when they raid.
I don't mind that there's an option to do dailys, but I do think that there should be another way to say, obtain the lesser charms, for example by running instances.
but but but but then there would be to easy to obtain? well put a cap to the amount of coins you can obtain in one day.. or something simular.. The only reason i feel obligated to do the dailys, is because of the coins.. I'm fine with having dailys to obtain certain gear pieces at X level of reputation. But I would want myself to be able to chose which of these factions I was to grind rep with. As of now I kind of felt like, you have to grind these factions for weeks before you can chose to do the dailys for the other factions. And this i don't like.. personally, i'd probably end up doing them sometimes when i felt like I had the time and wanted to obtain the mount from that specific faction, or if I felt like there was an upgrade that was worth spending time on.

I want to have the option to chose how to play the game, or which way to obtain the currency like lets say the lesser charms. But as of now, if I want the high valued extra lootroll I'm being forced to do the dailys. And it would be lazy and stupid of me not to take the time to obtain those very valuable extra rolls.

Before I often found myself choosing 1 or 2 factions to focus on, and left the others behind so that I could get what I really needed first. And when i finished those, I went back to the others and took my time with them to slowly obtain the other mounts/tabards/enchants from whatever faction.

I don't say you should be able to get the charms from every single time sink in the game, but I for sure would love to have something other than dailys... Because oh good god I really don't like doing dailys.. or questing for that matter. It's fine the first weeks or so, but after that it feels like I'm wasting my life with something I don't want to do, but I have to do it, to get the most out of the things that I do like, say raiding..
Edited by Holydruid on 15/01/2013 17:38 GMT
90 Blood Elf Hunter
8645
OP, you are a teacher, right?
don't teachers have like 3 or 4 months of vacation a year? i have 3 - 4 weeks.. don't complain about lack of time..
most of the time you have time in between classes to correct homework, prepare lessons etc.. and unless you teach a class which evolves all the time and you have to study yourself to keep up with the latest stuff, you should know all the content and by heart after a few years and won't have to prep classes that long (history, math, languages,.. don't realy change that much)

i work 8.5h a day.. than spend a few hours with my wife...
still i raid with my guild and do all the dailies i want.. allthough i must say that i'm seriously slacking on 3 factions.. and haven't even started 1 faction.. cause i choose so

i can find the time to play an average of 3hours / day..
since the start of MoP i've leveled several toons to 90 with raid ready gear
i've completely releveled professions on some toons
i've farmed old content for legendaries/mounts/fun and mats
i've had time to boost fiends alts in old content
i've had time to get valor capped almost every week
i've had time.. cause i knew in advance what to do with the time i had and i planned it..

and for info: i haven't had 1 day of vacation since the launch of MoP and weekends i work on my daughter's bedroom..

no time cause you're casual??
would like to say: MoP is the best expansion so far imho..
Edited by Cleoo on 15/01/2013 17:41 GMT
90 Undead Warlock
18355
14/01/2013 19:06Posted by Draztal
If you want the gear purely for progression terms, LFR is readily available and you won't have to go through reputations, you can also get some 496 items from crafting (though I bet those won't be exactly cheap if you need to look for a crafter you don't know at all).

For players with limited playtime, getting resources and reputation takes a very long time.
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
(and for some reason our developers suddenly became individuals without any judgment capabilities)

Considering the changes that were implented since ghostcrawler is there, I imply it already happened.
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
I do. I enjoy them, I find them useful to do something outside my daily dungeon/raid routine. I've only stopped running them once I've hit exalted with all Pandaria factions to instead run scenarios, old raids and PVP.

I did them with my main and I just hit 90 with my 3rd char and didnt really touch any daily with both of the later ones. Simply because I dont feel in any way motivated to undergo the same precedure again. It just takes ages with some very boring dailys. Golden lotus especially. I kinda liked the dominace offensive but thats it. My alts are basicly stuck because I like to do dungeons but did hardly any dailys in cata or wotlk because of tabards.
Now you take away that option. You force us your way instead of letting us keep the choice how we want to farm reputation. It worked in wotlk and cata but you say it doesnt work with mop. Thats stupid.
I can understand, however, how a player might feel he's got to climb a huge mountain when you just reach level 90 and realize all the reputations you've got to go through.

But the thing is, now that all content is unlocked (unlike at MoP's launch), you can really progress at your leisure.

How we might feel? Spoken like someone that is no player. Otherwise you would see the amount of time that was required at mop launch to gather the reputation "to really progress at our leisure". Even if it does take half that time for each alt if we buy the commendations for each faction, we still are forced to do dailys instead like in previous addons with dungeons while getting gear and then progress with alts.
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
There's plenty of alternative activities. The issue here, I fear, is that you want the rewards tied to daily quests without doing daily quests. I would like to have Heroic raiding gear rewards without doing Heroic raiding every day, but hey, I understand that wouldn't be healthy for the game.

Show me one post, just one post, that asked for heroic gear? You wont find it. Because your argumentation is the same crap you fed us everytime to justify changes that worked just fine in older epxansions but out of the blue dont work with the current one.
Our concern are not the rewards for reputation, its the way to get the reputation. We had the choice before and just want that choice back.
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
Honest question: Isn't a better option for some casual end-game to run LFR with your alts? You'll get a shot at gear every week rather than having to go through those faction items.

Honest question: Are you stupid? Considering the amount of time it takes to equip one char to the ilvl required to enter LFR, the chance to get gear in LFR is minimal. And what is "casual end-game"? Thats contradicting.
Oh, please. The solution to Cataclysm problems, if you look at what's been added since then (4.0), is:
-Pet Battles, Scenarios, Raid Finder, Daily quest reputations, Item Upgrades, The Tillers farm (and how you can use it for Cooking), Brawlers Guild, Black Market Auction House, World Bosses.

It's just not objective to go and argue that everything that's been added it's dailies.

- Scenarios are fun, after the first time. After that its a way to get valor points instead of running dungeons.
- Raid finder can be done once a week. Who runs it after that again? Oh wait...
- Item upgrades will be removed with 5.2 and are hardly worth mentioning because it doesnt take time to use it. The time to gather the valor points on the other hand...
- Tillers farm is also nothing but a big daily once its all unlocked.
- Brawlers guild is only for damage dealers. Dedicated healers and tanks cant do that.
- Black market... why do you even mention it? Doesnt make sense in this context.
- World bosses, if you mean the sha, are under the same rule as LFR. And I didnt have the chance to kill galleon even once on my realm (dead horde).
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
LFR requires you to have ilvl460, which you can get by completing all the Dread Wastes quests, some Townlong Steppes rewards, and if you're still lacking gear for some reason: heroics/scenarios. You don't need to dailies to get in.

Quest items dont go over ilvl 450 and there is only one scenario that hands out loot and only if you have the quest for it. The rest is based on a less than 2% drop chance. Also dungeon gear is also based on chance. Or do you run one dungeon and get an item for your char from each boss? No? Thought so.
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
This isn't really true though. If you're 7 days away from reaching exalted, and you miss one day of dailies, you won't be at 8 days from exalted, you'll remain at 7. You're not losing anything. It's just up to you if you want to finish those 7 days in a single week, once every week, once every month...

And I thought I sucked at math...
15/01/2013 13:01Posted by Draztal
When there's so much content to do with your main, do you truly need an army of alts at the same level your main is right now? at this very moment? I can't quite wrap my head around the argument of being a casual and at the same time arguing you need to have a bunch of alts at the very same level your main is.

Sometimes I want to play a different char, for different type of gameplay. You know, looking at things from a different perspective. I dont ask to have the same benefits the moment one of my alts hits 90. I just ask for the features back that we enjoyed in previous expansions that you took away simply to force every char through the same (yes, 50% of the time that it took before theoreticaly) painfull and time consuming farm madness.
However, there are tons of things to discover in Mists if you go out and explore.
The devs has places all sorts of cool and interesting treasures out in the world.
I've had some great times just flying and riding around in Pandaria exploring.

I agree on that. Its just at a certain point, you´ve seen it mostly all. What then? Oh yeah. Do dailys, they are always there to do...
90 Human Hunter
13715
Only did dailies for the kite mount, got one (1) vp gear piece, did maybe a total of 8 of the new 5.1 dailies...
Nothing that is currently hindering my progress or keeping me back in anyway is tied to VP gear or grinding dailies even if I hadn't done a single one.

Look Ma, no dailies:
Farm Heroics for 463 gear to raid MSV, raid MSV for 489 Gear, raid HoF & ToE for 496 gear and/or buy 476-496 BoE gear
"But no one will give me spot in an MSV raid with ilvl 460!"
Make your own raid, then!
"But I [something that can be paraphrased as "cannot be arsed"]!"
Now we're getting to the root of the problem...
Edited by Doremy on 15/01/2013 17:42 GMT
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