I honestly hope Blizzard never brings back rep tabards.

17/01/2013 14:19Posted by Bramiq
So we can assume that only one dungeon or one scenario will earn you rep?


As the PTR Patch Notes read currently, it's the first dungeon and first scenario. Of course, things might change, but that's the plan right now.

The answer was/is so blooming obvious, you never had to re-invent the wheel, just put the old one back on - simply having both at release (instead of removing tabards) - Blizz could of scored a blinder by satisfying everyone - missed opportunity by not keeping tabards with the current daily system on release, missed it again in 5.1 and instead opt for a watered down fix in 5.2.

If one of them is the obvious path to get it done faster, the developers have seen over the years that the players will take that path, even if it's something they just don't like doing (which is probably why some people feel dailies are mandatory, because they'd like to spend their valor points on that gear rather than using the item upgrade system, perhaps because the'll spend them better there).

Also, keep in mind that in 5.2, valor gear will have a reputation requirement, but this reputation won't be earned from daily quests (which will also be available and it's a different faction).
Edited by Draztal on 17/01/2013 18:00 GMT
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90 Orc Hunter
8515
17/01/2013 15:00Posted by Aletta
The argument of "Don't do x if you don't like it" is such a cop out.


And yet scarily accurate.
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87 Night Elf Warrior
2005


Oh please tell me it's not near as much as you can earn by doing a factions daily quests. That'll just funnel everyone into dungeons and we're back into the Cataclysm mess.

If you can do both HC/Scenario and dailies, the "issue" isn't even resolved, it just adds more to their "must do everything every day" madness.


If you want to talk madness then perhaps you should take a look at yourself. Assuming you are a dutiful daily doer, doesn't it strike you as being a bit insane logging on to do daily chores week after week for no tangible benefit?

Anyway those who hate dailies, me included, have to this point given absolutely no indication that they would want to do them. As someone a few posts above mentioned. Dailies are like marmite, its either love or hate. I cannot see, seriously see, how adding options is bad for the game.

If you love your daily chores so much you can rest assured no one is going to snatch them away from you.
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3 Human Mage
0
I don't hate dailies.

I hate the dated 1990's mob tapping system.

I want to play the game, not fly around in circles aimlessly.

Edit: Sorry I forgot....I mean RUN around in circles aimlessly.
Edited by Stinkyedita on 17/01/2013 18:19 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7975

If you want to talk madness then perhaps you should take a look at yourself. Assuming you are a dutiful daily doer, doesn't it strike you as being a bit insane logging on to do daily chores week after week for no tangible benefit?

I don't do dailies more than once or twice per week, because I have neither the time nor will to do them every day. And there's no NEED for it either.

Anyway those who hate dailies, me included, have to this point given absolutely no indication that they would want to do them. As someone a few posts above mentioned. Dailies are like marmite, its either love or hate. I cannot see, seriously see, how adding options is bad for the game.

Making it equally fast gaining reputation in dungeons as doing dailies isn't "adding choices", it:

Nullifies factions as a lore entity, they become an icon on a tabard (World interaction plummets.)

Makes it more profitable to stay in cities in a queue (I had hoped Cataclysm taught people that this is bad for the game as a whole.)

Hands out too much reward for one task (In addition to JP, VP and items, you also get reputation. And then there'll be complaints about not getting Elder Charms from running 5mans.)

Speeds up progression that might lead to yet another borefest (like it or not, MMOs who don't gate their users in a reasonable way quickly dies.)

Makes doing daily quests in the world a subpar option. Players always go for the easiest route. (So dailies and world interaction must stay as the most rewarding route)

If you love your daily chores so much you can rest assured no one is going to snatch them away from you.

I don't love dailies, but if I decide I want a particular Valor item available to me I do the dailies occassionally until I can buy it. And perhaps that's what daily loathers need to learn.
Edited by Veraz on 17/01/2013 18:30 GMT
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What I would love to see is more choices to farm the reputation for factions, deffo not a tabard again I agree on that! But mayby a choice between dailies and something else


For 5.2 you will be able to champion a faction and earn rep with them on your first heroic and scenario of the day


A good start, yes.

Both the cataclysm solution and the MoP 5.0 solution are bad, as they overpower one single component on rep farming. In Cataclysm and before it was dungeons, in MoP it is daily questing.

We went from one extreme to the other.

Ghostcrawler said, that the faction you daily quest for would not gate valor gear anymore.

I still dont get how you are going to remove the gating for the valor gear rep than, as it is not being tied to the daily quest rep anymore.

Is it being tied to the 5 man world bosses you need to group up, kill those world bosses, and gain rep for the valor gate faction then..?
Edited by Nessaya on 17/01/2013 18:28 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11005
Draztal, I have 3 questions:

1) is the championing rep a flat rep you get at the end that's comparable to what you would get from doing all dailies that day?

2) does the dailies faction have reputation rewards as well? and are those intended as a sort of catchup for new players/alts?

3) if the valor rep is related to the raid (most likely it is), can you also get it through LFR?

17/01/2013 17:59Posted by Draztal
So we can assume that only one dungeon or one scenario will earn you rep?


As the PTR Patch Notes read currently, it's the first dungeon and first scenario. Of course, things might change, but that's the plan right now.

The answer was/is so blooming obvious, you never had to re-invent the wheel, just put the old one back on - simply having both at release (instead of removing tabards) - Blizz could of scored a blinder by satisfying everyone - missed opportunity by not keeping tabards with the current daily system on release, missed it again in 5.1 and instead opt for a watered down fix in 5.2.

If one of them is the obvious path to get it done faster, the developers have seen over the years that the players will take that path, even if it's something they just don't like doing (which is probably why some people feel dailies are mandatory, because they'd like to spend their valor points on that gear rather than using the item upgrade system, perhaps because the'll spend them better there).

Also, keep in mind that in 5.2, valor gear will have a reputation requirement, but this reputation won't be earned from daily quests (which will also be available and it's a different faction).
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Also, before I forget, remember that in 5.2, you'll be able to receive Work Orders in Sunsong Ranch from all accross Pandaria, and completing a work order will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction. So it should help reduce the burden of doing dailies for those of you that don't enjoy them that much :)

Draztal, I have 3 questions:

1) is the championing rep a flat rep you get at the end that's comparable to what you would get from doing all dailies that day?

2) does the dailies faction have reputation rewards as well? and are those intended as a sort of catchup for new players/alts?

3) if the valor rep is related to the raid (most likely it is), can you also get it through LFR?


Great questions! I do not know at this time, but we'll try to gather that information and share it as soon as possible.
Edited by Draztal on 17/01/2013 18:33 GMT
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17/01/2013 18:30Posted by Draztal
Also, before I forget, remember that in 5.2, you'll be able to receive Work Orders in Sunsong Ranch from all accross Pandaria, and completing a work order will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction. So it should help reduce the burden of doing dailies for those of you that don't enjoy them that much :)


But only for old factions (5.0, 5.1), or not?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7975
17/01/2013 18:30Posted by Draztal
Also, before I forget, remember that in 5.2, you'll be able to receive Work Orders in Sunsong Ranch from all accross Pandaria, and completing a work order will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction. So it should help reduce the burden of doing dailies for those of you that don't enjoy them that much :)


That's all good for people who doesn't think they have to cap everything, but how does it address the feel of having a "chore" that some seem to experience?
When we get reputation from dungeons and scenarios, and from work orders, will that not merely make the issue grow as there's more things piling up that some see as a daily chore they need to do?

And how about Elder Charms? From a game design PoV I am genuinely worried about the effects of slowly devaluing interacting with factions in the world.

Now, if players can't set reasonable limits on themselves, that's their own issue, but frankly I would've preferred a more take it or leave it approach. Making people "have to do dailies in addition to a HC/Scenario every day" isn't going to calm people down. In fact I'm certain we'll be hearing all about it as 5.2 goes live.

And, Azerothian gods willing, don't put a cap on daily reputation that can be reached without touching a faction questgiver in Pandaria.

But perhaps I'm wrong, maybe people will feel a bit more content with not capping a theoretical daily rep gain, but Lesser Charms still remain.
Edited by Veraz on 17/01/2013 18:44 GMT
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If it's a raid rep, i also hope lfr as well.

It could take longer, no problem.
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90 Human Paladin
7215
17/01/2013 18:30Posted by Draztal
Great questions! I do not know at this time, but we'll try to gather that information and share it as soon as possible.


Any word on addressing the fact that currently the only way to earn rep is to use a DPS spec (or to DPS in a non dps spec but the point is, by damaging rather than healing or tanking)?
Edited by Azmaria on 17/01/2013 18:46 GMT
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98 Tauren Hunter
8740
16/01/2013 16:55Posted by Danellos
This is a dead horse that has been flogged enough already


did it end up as a burger at Tesco ?
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8645
Also, before I forget, remember that in 5.2, you'll be able to receive Work Orders in Sunsong Ranch from all accross Pandaria, and completing a work order will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction. So it should help reduce the burden of doing dailies for those of you that don't enjoy them that much :)

Draztal, I have 3 questions:

1) is the championing rep a flat rep you get at the end that's comparable to what you would get from doing all dailies that day?

2) does the dailies faction have reputation rewards as well? and are those intended as a sort of catchup for new players/alts?

3) if the valor rep is related to the raid (most likely it is), can you also get it through LFR?


Great questions! I do not know at this time, but we'll try to gather that information and share it as soon as possible.


looking forward too seeing the answers to this..
these last few blue posts and normal feedback and questios to this made the entire thread worth while..
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I am happy to read about those changes as well. Will make the game much more diversified.

I still think, that progressing alts should be made more easy as it currently is. I hope, that there will be a change either in removing gating for alts or in faster reputation gain in 5.2 as well.
Edited by Nessaya on 17/01/2013 19:03 GMT
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17/01/2013 18:49Posted by Mutly
This is a dead horse that has been flogged enough already


did it end up as a burger at Tesco ?

Nice one :)
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90 Pandaren Monk
4140
Whoa, I never thought my topic will get that much popular let alone a Blue.

In any case I am happy the discussion was mildly constructive and less obnoxious than I thought it would be.

I think the compromise Blizzard made with the "once a day reputation in dungeon tabard" is sort of a good middle ground. It could bring balance to both aspect of the games and make things less tedious for people that like doing dungeons. In fact, I might at least have an incentive now to do a dungeon a day, because while I dislike spamming them one a day is pretty cool to do but I never had any reason to do so after the initial gearing. Thanks Blizzard.
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39 Blood Elf Paladin
300
16/01/2013 11:36Posted by Moso
So instead of getting a tabard and playing with other 4 people, now you have to go solo through 37 billion dailies. Great change, I propose a raise for the great game designer of solo MMORPGs


QFT

Also I /laugh on people who think dailies are effort, probably never had any effort in their lives. Dailies is just boring, solo content that even a monkey could do them..not that dungeons are hard, but at least they are group content and this is why we play MMO right? I play skyrim when I want to play solo.

" Skinner Box: Push button, get cookie. Pushing the button is neither fun, nor is it challenging. You only do it for the cookie. And the game is usually set up in a way that you need to push the same button in the same way repeatedly, which is even more boring."

and people call that effort, /facepalm. Now the solo MMO players , not only want their cookie for their hard work(/laugh) but also cry and ask for the group content to be less rewarding than their solo "hard work/effort/imba stuff"...Keep on Blizzard, you decided to switch from million happy players, to million peons who do their daily work to get their cookie. At least some people will finally find a meaning to their lifes because finally they got a job to do and they put Effort in their lives!!!

If one of them is the obvious path to get it done faster, the developers have seen over the years that the players will take that path, even if it's something they just don't like doing (which is probably why some people feel dailies are mandatory, because they'd like to spend their valor points on that gear rather than using the item upgrade system, perhaps because the'll spend them better there).


I have only 2 epics on me and they are crafted armor from my profession. They are 476 ilvl and my rest gear is 463/450. So instead of replace a 463 item with a 489(+26 ilvls) item from a rep vendor and only with 1250 valor (neck,ring) you ask me to spent 1500 valor to increase an already good item on me by 8 ilvl????and is it MY FAULT to not use this failed feature?
Edited by Fallen on 17/01/2013 19:56 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
4140
17/01/2013 19:47Posted by Fallen
So instead of getting a tabard and playing with other 4 people, now you have to go solo through 37 billion dailies. Great change, I propose a raise for the great game designer of solo MMORPGs


QFT

Also I /laugh on people who think dailies are effort, probably never had any effort in their lives. Dailies is just boring, solo content that even a monkey could do them..not that dungeons are hard, but at least they are group content and this is why we play MMO right? I play skyrim when I want to play solo.

" Skinner Box: Push button, get cookie. Pushing the button is neither fun, nor is it challenging. You only do it for the cookie. And the game is usually set up in a way that you need to push the same button in the same way repeatedly, which is even more boring."

and people call that effort, /facepalm. Now the solo MMO players , not only want their cookie for their hard work(/laugh) but also cry and ask for the group content to be less rewarding than their solo "hard work/effort/imba stuff"...Keep on Blizzard, you decided to switch from million happy players, to million peons who do their daily work to get their cookie. At least some people will finally find a meaning to their lifes because finally they got a job to do and they put Effort in their lives!!!


And I just jynxed my topic about mentioning decent posters/discussions.

Nobody said you are wrong, but you can't also wrong people and be repulsively insulting in dealing with them because you just disagree. It's ok to disagree really and I am sorry the game isn't designed to your liking but this is absolutely not a way to speak your opinion if you want to be taken seriously.

Plus, nobody mentioned anything about effort doing dailies. It is in fact the lack of effort is what makes them more tolerable; at least in my case.
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90 Human Death Knight
9445
Would actually prefer something else with these tabards:

Say, you get exalted rep, and grant the ability to buy the Tabard of said faction.

The tabard is BoA and can be send to Alts, for them to get Rep from by completing Quests/Dungeons/ect
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