lesser charms of good fortune

90 Pandaren Warrior
13515
so me and a few online friends decided to try out something

10 weeks of raids and using these 4 people 40 times

each of us for 10 weeks from world bosses/raids got 28.50g each

these things are pointless and tbh a waste of time wouldnt they be better to use to buy BOA gear or something

see these just being any token collector liek the tol barad tokens
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90 Goblin Rogue
4440
So you are complaining that a free item which gives you a CHANCE at loot, which you get by doing normal daily's are not worth the effort.

I am sure that the Daily's that give you the coins have other rewards, just cant remember what they are.....
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90 Pandaren Warrior
13515
So you are complaining that a free item which gives you a CHANCE at loot, which you get by doing normal daily's are not worth the effort.

I am sure that the Daily's that give you the coins have other rewards, just cant remember what they are.....


if i wanted the extra DAILY 28g i would do the extra 1-2 dailies

all im saying is collecting these are pointless and endingup the way the tol barad tokens ended up
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90 Goblin Rogue
4440
considering almost half my LFR epics have come from coins I am going the other way with this. The way I look at it, I have made no extra effort other than doing daily's that I normally do and clicking once at the end of a boss.

Seems like they have a point and a purpose and do exactly as intended. They are not compulsory and free.

Tol Barad tokens required you to do Tol Barad. These require nothing other than doing daily's we are doing anyway for rep.

I have so many now I could stop doing daily's for a couple month and still have more than enough to get the 3 coins every week.

Also Tol Barad tokens where useless because the gear was replaced so easily. These are going to be usable in every tier of raiding. So they wont be go the way of the tokens either. And don't require me to do PvP.
Edited by Jezahbel on 02/01/2013 12:38 GMT
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90 Tauren Monk
MoX
10085
02/01/2013 12:31Posted by Tankerbell
all im saying is collecting these are pointless and endingup the way the tol barad tokens ended up


But they're optional, not pointless...

I think 3 pieces of my heroic gear is from coins and I've got over 5 normal drops from them over the weeks. Yes I've also had a HUGE amount of time with not a single drop but in the end I get something, others will get nothing because it's entirely RNG but meh, that's life.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8170
My only complaint is that the bonus roll too often gives items that I already have /sadface
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90 Human Mage
14985
They have worked OK for me, although it does feel like Sha of Anger drop rates are lower than they used to be. My main has had far better luck than my alt. My second alt doesn't have charms (no time to do enough daily quests to get the lesser charms).

I wonder if Blizzard ran a Monte Carlo simulation of the old LFR loot model vs. new LFR while also assuming that in the old LFR players had a chance X of passing on an item, thus increasing the chance of getting the right item when you are gearing up.

In our normal mode raids, people regularly get items with bonus rolls. I think it's pretty important to use the charms when the boss actually has something you really want or when everything the boss drops is still of use to you.

As far as duplicate/useless stuff dropping on LFR rolls, I think it would be interesting to have a system where you can pass on an item and it gets put into a common pool that then gets redistributed among everyone who passed. This way, if a boss has one item that you already have and another you want, there's a reasonable chance you can swap the duplicate item into the one you want.
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Community
Hello Tankerbell,

40 rolls is still a somewhat small sample size. It only means that you and your friends had some bad luck. As you can see from some of the replies from other players, some have got quite a few items from charms of good fortune, in the end, as the sample size gets bigger and you take into account the rolls of every player in the realm, it all evens out and the experimental drop rate gets closer and closer to the theoretical value that was in the code.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15895
But by your logic everything els then raiding is pointless, dailies gives items worse then raids, no one is forcing you to use them or farm for them.....
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90 Tauren Druid
11840
Sometimes I get nothing, another week I got 3 items from 3 charms. RNG is RNG.
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90 Troll Shaman
10700
LFR drops what... 4 items per boss? 10 man drops 2 per and a world boss I have no idea.

25 man lfr is about a 1 in 6 chance to get an item. A charm doubles your chances up to 1 in 3. Sure against the odds but double is better than none, and you get the option to farm a certain raid boss for more chances at a specific piece of gear or token.

Assume a world boss also drops 4 items and you take along a 40 man raid you're chances are then 1 in 10, I would make the assumption that the elder charms also maintain this ratio (someone please correct me if this is wrong).

The elder charms are hardly worthless. But even when you do use them you're still rolling against the odds. The choice of when and where to use them is also an important factor though. Potentially having 4 rolls per week on 1 specific boss makes a lot of difference.
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90 Troll Hunter
19005
@Seung unfortunately, LFR and world boss /as LFR loot system in it/ don't work like this. There is no actual loot drop, Sha example every one from raid full 40man can get 1item +1 item from coin. Just need to be marked on kill as winner of loot and lucky with coin.

GoldCoin are not so bad, for me is like 1 from 10 to get item. Still worse luck in LFR, than normal kills and Sha :)
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90 Draenei Death Knight
16215
@Tankerbell
Looks like you got 2 items on your very first LFR MSV run.

If for arguments sake we assume that both Sha and LFR bosses have a 10% chance to drop something, that means there is a ~9.8% chance of getting exactly 2 items from those 6 bosses in MSV. The chance of getting exactly 0 items off of Sha for 10 weeks is ~34.9%. In fact, the chances of being as lucky as you were in MSV are equal to not getting any Sha loot for 22 weeks straight.

Conclusion? You are way more lucky than you are unlucky. No need to cry.
Edited by Muktahl on 03/01/2013 15:39 GMT
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90 Troll Shaman
10700
@Seung unfortunately, LFR and world boss /as LFR loot system in it/ don't work like this. There is no actual loot drop, Sha example every one from raid full 40man can get 1item +1 item from coin. Just need to be marked on kill as winner of loot and lucky with coin.

GoldCoin are not so bad, for me is like 1 from 10 to get item. Still worse luck in LFR, than normal kills and Sha :)


But the ratio numbers still apply. That is what I'm getting at. LFR now is "consistent" as LFR was in dragon soul for number of items that "drop", or so has been stated previously in a few blue posts.

Though I'd still be curious to know the chances and ratios for different group sizes and bosses.
Edited by Seung on 03/01/2013 15:45 GMT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
13385
Hello Tankerbell,

40 rolls is still a somewhat small sample size. It only means that you and your friends had some bad luck. As you can see from some of the replies from other players, some have got quite a few items from charms of good fortune, in the end, as the sample size gets bigger and you take into account the rolls of every player in the realm, it all evens out and the experimental drop rate gets closer and closer to the theoretical value that was in the code.


You're just pointing out why pure RNG are bad for a game in my opinion.

Sure, out of 10 million players, numbers are okay, close to the number in the code as you mention.

But for those few persons that have bad luck, the gaming experience is terrible, and that's just not acceptable. I'm not asking for things being given to you for free, but the same code you mention SHOULD contain some SAFEGUARDS against bad luck and bad experience.

It's a matter of respect for the time people invest in this game.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
16215
03/01/2013 15:56Posted by Stardawn
But for those few persons that have bad luck, the gaming experience is terrible, and that's just not acceptable. I'm not asking for things being given to you for free, but the same code you mention SHOULD contain some SAFEGUARDS against bad luck and bad experience.


You should google 'valor points'...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
20215
03/01/2013 15:02Posted by Woody
Sometimes I get nothing, another week I got 3 items from 3 charms. RNG is RNG.


Exactly this. Got my fair share of gold bags, got my fair share of loot also. No complaints with this system except having to do dailies to utilise it. However since I like achievements sometimes I farmed exalted with all the reps and ended up with ~2k lesser charms anyway, only now getting anywhere near low (800 or so left).
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90 Undead Rogue
12630
Atm i'm at like 17/17 gold in a row or 2 say almost 5 week's :D
Got 2 items with 3 char's from Sha 4 months near>
Galleon got Like 10 kills and 8 charm's used ...=More gold.

I'm close to 1% of Getting an item from Sha + Galleon in almost 4 months. Like 60 Kill's in total from al my 3 char's and close to 25 coin used. Dont have the will to continue^^

The idea of world bosses is ok the rng is likely to say Some people would never see item's .Have a friend that lvl up hes shaman and 2 start slowly raiding. No item's in 4 week's.(Switching to dota 2:D )

The biggest problem i guess is that. Not having luck for enough time make you get bored

I have literaly raped Skadi the Ruthless for sadly more enough than 500 kills. Never saw it:D
Edited by Darkblazer on 03/01/2013 16:48 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8645
so you had bad luck on coins? so what, it's just bad luck..
i've had it aswell.. i've had more bosses without loot than with loot, and only had a 10% winnings from the coins so far..

but the coins work nicely and if you're on a luck streak, nice stuff can happen...

had 4 coins remaining yesterday.. we raided with our guild yesterday and did 3 bosses, they didn't drop loot for me, but i used my coins on all 3 bosses en i got loot from every single extra roll..

later i did TeS lfr since i'm still looking to get my tier shoulders and my sha touched weapon.. first i got no loot on boss 3, but on my coin roll i got a trinket..

so yesterday: 4 coins used = 4 times loot

it's all RNG..

and it's not cause it's a coins of good fortune, that you are guarantied loot.. it's just an extra CHANCE to get something.. with the same 15% probability as the main lootroll..
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9115
4 months ? really thats pretty impressive seen as though mists was released on the 25th sept !!

Honestly though isn't it getting a bit silly all these "loot system sux i don't gear up in a week". Having said that ive read this post and replied so i guess that makes me just as bad :P

What part of RNG do you people not get. You could do this for a year and still not get what you want if your very unlucky, you could also get a drop off every single boss you do this week !!!!

Seriously stop moaning if you don't like it then don't do it, just raid with your guild and hope the items you want drop but news flash there is RNG there also !!!!!!!
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