Vendors with white gear? Why not green?

Community
02/01/2013 12:06Posted by Borderlîne
Vendor gear could get soulbound when u purchase it ( bop )

Indeed that would be a solution, but the other part of the equation it would render the AH economy even more valueless for if people find they need to fill a slot with a better piece, they could just buy it from a vendor.

I think the balance here is right. Vendor gear is not meant to be "great" merely "adequate". Better gear is designed to be obtained by game interaction, not by shopping at vendors.


I think we're essentially discussing convenience vs gaming experience here. I would personally have to agree with the latter sentiment above, that vendor gear like this isn't meant to provide meaningful upgrades, such as from grey/white gear to greens for low level characters. Without high level characters backing you up, you have to go out and explore, fight and win to get better stuff.

For me at least, part of the fun when I start a brand new character on a new realm is having to quest for a while in the most basic of equipment. Then, when you get that first green and you can feel the difference in combat, it feels good, whether it's from a reward or a drop. Just running to a vendor and buying yourself some new gear that is equivalent to the quest rewards seems a little boring in comparison, it would take away some of that excitement. As it stands now, I usually go and grab the white gear for new characters as soon as I can afford it, because any upgrade, no matter how small, helps. And, at that level, grey/white stuff works just fine :)
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90 Human Warlock
5435
There are vendors in Crossroads that sell green gear, also in Sepulcher and Hillsbrad. They are in other places too like Duskwood.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=3658 Lizzarik <Weapon Dealer> for instance
Edited by Dottie on 02/01/2013 15:56 GMT
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Community
Vendors for expansion switches would be nice indeed.
Especially BC->Northrend and Northrend->Cat. Especially Northernd->Cat would be nice, as for healers its hard gearing to be able to join Cat instances soonish due to ilvl requirement.


I have noticed (recently in fact) that the first few quests in Cataclysm can certainly be tough unless you're in really good gear from Wrath. However, you get some great upgrades from those quests which make things easier almost immediately. So I still question the need for vendors at expansion junctions, considering how quickly you pick up replacement gear.

There are vendors in Crossroads that sell green gear, also in Sepulcher and Hillsbrad. They are in other places too like Duskwood.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=3658 Lizzarik <Weapon Dealer> for instance


Yeah but by this stage, green gear and some blue items are readily available through quests and dungeons, so it's not like the vendor gear is a significant upgrade. I think that's the argument here, to be able to buy gear that's better than what's available through normal levelling, am I right?
Edited by Takralus on 02/01/2013 16:00 GMT
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- World of Warcraft
90 Gnome Mage
13355
02/01/2013 15:56Posted by Takralus
So I still question the need for vendors at expansion junctions, considering how quickly you pick up replacement gear.


I think the best part about it would be the simplicity of being able to change your spec at the beginning of a new expansion if you want to. Right now, you can buy green gear from vendors in Pandaria for changing spec and it's quite nice. (I think you can anyway) Gathering gear for a seperate spec while levelling is not easy, especially if it is as diverse as something like tanking and healing. Even starting in Cataclysm as a Druid in Balance after always fighting in Feral before... You may replace the gear soon but it's something to get you started. You could buy gear of the Auction House, but not everyone can afford that and the Auction House may not have everything you need. You could wait till MoP I suppose but it's nice being able to get to know your spec before you begin end game content.
Edited by Eolien on 02/01/2013 16:05 GMT
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90 Human Warlock
5435
02/01/2013 15:56Posted by Takralus
So I still question the need for vendors at expansion junctions, considering how quickly you pick up replacement gear.

If you are on a realm with a decent population you can pick up gear for the new expansion on the AH, usually it's quite cheap, Mists of Pandaria gear for instance, you can buy it from level 83 (some Blue items are for level 80, but they are expensive) and it's usually cheaper than the gear you can buy from the vendor.
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- World of Warcraft
90 Worgen Druid
6570
Vendors for expansion switches would be nice indeed.
Especially BC->Northrend and Northrend->Cat. Especially Northernd->Cat would be nice, as for healers its hard gearing to be able to join Cat instances soonish due to ilvl requirement.


I have noticed (recently in fact) that the first few quests in Cataclysm can certainly be tough unless you're in really good gear from Wrath. However, you get some great upgrades from those quests which make things easier almost immediately. So I still question the need for vendors at expansion junctions, considering how quickly you pick up replacement gear.


It is indeed a big step, especially when you're in quest/dungeon gear and not stuff from raids. All of my now 85s save for one were in quest gear and things were real tough, and it's not helpful if you play a class with little to no in-combat self-healing. In Mists of Pandaria there were few things that could compete with my raid gear, but I still notice it being replaced slowly by green items. Goodbye Kiril, hello "generic polearm of the unoriginal beast".
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90 Human Warlock
5435
02/01/2013 15:56Posted by Takralus
Yeah but by this stage, green gear and some blue items are readily available through quests and dungeons, so it's not like the vendor gear is a significant upgrade. I think that's the argument here, to be able to buy gear that's better than what's available through normal levelling, am I right?


Also at low level you tend to outlevel your gear very quickly, I recently did Deadmines as a first dungeon and got 3 bits of gear and 2.5 levels.

Edit: I agree with Jonní, it can be difficult to do the first few quests in a new expansion, but if you buy a few bits of gear beforehand it can be easier.
Edited by Dottie on 02/01/2013 16:09 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10970
I remember leveling this monk and at level 85 when I was in about ilvl 312 or so, and I had to go into Jade Forrest with 80k hp vs Mobs with 130k hp it was a NIGHTMARE.
Having said that, the first quest gives a great weapon which is extremely helpful.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
I agree , i am wrong after reading all that . Then lets stay on what a player has said about vendors for expansion switches . I find this great and he/she is right. What if you were a healer at the previous expansion ? Being a healer is not that good for questing , being a dps tho is . Mop came out , have to do quests but.. how? with my healing gear and spec? Sure spec is easy to get changed but not gear.. having a vendor tho to help you get started it would be amazing.
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90 Human Warlock
5435
02/01/2013 16:32Posted by Ionlykill
Sure spec is easy to get changed but not gear.. having a vendor tho to help you get started it would be amazing.

There are vendors in MoP and more than one , they are at iLevel 372 (L85), 393(L87) and 408(L88), Usually they are tagged as "Adventuring Supplies".
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
There are vendors in MoP and more than one , they are at iLevel 372 (L85), 393(L87) and 408(L88), Usually they are tagged as "Adventuring Supplies".


Yeah true.. but do other expansions have that?
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Community
02/01/2013 16:00Posted by Eolien
So I still question the need for vendors at expansion junctions, considering how quickly you pick up replacement gear.


I think the best part about it would be the simplicity of being able to change your spec at the beginning of a new expansion if you want to. Right now, you can buy green gear from vendors in Pandaria for changing spec and it's quite nice. (I think you can anyway) Gathering gear for a seperate spec while levelling is not easy, especially if it is as diverse as something like tanking and healing. Even starting in Cataclysm as a Druid in Balance after always fighting in Feral before... You may replace the gear soon but it's something to get you started. You could buy gear of the Auction House, but not everyone can afford that and the Auction House may not have everything you need. You could wait till MoP I suppose but it's nice being able to get to know your spec before you begin end game content.


Nicely put, thank you :)

02/01/2013 16:06Posted by Dottie
Yeah but by this stage, green gear and some blue items are readily available through quests and dungeons, so it's not like the vendor gear is a significant upgrade. I think that's the argument here, to be able to buy gear that's better than what's available through normal levelling, am I right?


Also at low level you tend to outlevel your gear very quickly, I recently did Deadmines as a first dungeon and got 3 bits of gear and 2.5 levels.

Edit: I agree with Jonní, it can be difficult to do the first few quests in a new expansion, but if you buy a few bits of gear beforehand it can be easier.


Okay so to address the original topic of whites and greens to lowbies; Yes, you do get new gear quickly at that level, but by doing cool things like dungeons as you mention. Which is why I think being able to just buy greens from the get-go on a new character would be a little sad.

On the topic of new gear for expansions, it's true that you can invest a little cash (of which you should have plenty by this point in the game) in the AH to make the transition a little easier, for sure. There are some nice crafted sets available, you could have someone make you that—I did this for my Paladin, who had some awesome healing gear but nothing at all for DPS, and she failed hard in the starting zone for Pandaria. Again, it comes down to convenience vs. having to go out there and 'play the game', be it chatting to crafters, earning gold to buy yourself a starting set for the new lands or toughing it out by struggling through those first few quests. Just plonking a vendor in the new zone as soon as you arrive with shiny new gear isn't much fun. This isn't the case with the Pandaria vendors by the way, you've probably replaced most of your gear by the time you reach them, although they do offer you the chance to get things for any slots you might still be needing (and gear for offspec ofc).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Takralus,

Firstly thanks for the responses and for keeping this topic going really well .

A question that just came to my mind:
So lets say i am a healer but i am feeling forced to choose dps gear from quests so i can keep on questing . Why can't i choose dps and healing gear from quests ( x2 rewards ) ? The healing gear for running dungeons and battlegrounds as a healer while leveling and dps gear so i can keep on questing. If you get what I mean. Cause if i end up with dps gear from quests how can I be healer? Must I buy gear from AH? Must I queue for dungeons as a dps and if by any chance the healer in the dungeon doesn't need the lets say healing helmet i can roll too?

Thanks!
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90 Human Warrior
10275
Who would want to waste gold on something that will only last 1/2 hour at most. TBH i should imagine you could get to lvl 60 naked.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9835
Prices on Strange Dust would drop quite low :)
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Community
Takralus,

Firstly thanks for the responses and for keeping this topic going really well .

A question that just came to my mind:
So lets say i am a healer but i am feeling forced to choose dps gear from quests so i can keep on questing . Why can't i choose dps and healing gear from quests ( x2 rewards ) ? The healing gear for running dungeons and battlegrounds as a healer while leveling and dps gear so i can keep on questing. If you get what I mean. Cause if i end up with dps gear from quests how can I be healer? Must I buy gear from AH? Must I queue for dungeons as a dps and if by any chance the healer in the dungeon doesn't need the lets say healing helmet i can roll too?

Thanks!


Is it really fair that a hybrid class gets two rewards from a quest while a DPS-only class gets one? I don't think that would go down very well. I recently levelled a healer myself, but as a Priest, I could happily heal through levelling dungeons in my DPS gear. I know that for Paladins and Druids for example, this isn't the case. Like I said before though, it's not that hard to pick up sets for your offspec through the AH, crafting and Pandaria vendors for characters in that level range.

I think the options are quite clear when you set out to level up; if you go for DPS, you'll get through quests at a nice pace, and this is why having two specs is really handy, because you can keep your healing/tanking spec and use it when you want to, in dungeons or PvP. It's cool that you get that diversity with your character, unlike pure DPS classes. Of course, at some point you have to make that decision when you turn a quest in—do I want this cool healing staff, or the big DPS upgrade one? But we're drifting off topic here!

The point is, gear is available to purchase in the AH or via crafting all through vanilla, TBC, Wrath, Cata and Pandaria if you want to gear up through alternate ways than quest/dungeon/PvP rewards. I'm just personally unconvinced that having vendors who virtually hand you all the upgrades you need before starting a new expansion is the best way to go.
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90 Tauren Warrior
13810
there's some in Pandaria. bought some to upgrade my green catagear to MoP greens for my priest. are a bit scattered around, but found one in jade forest. With 372 gear, Its for all speccs and classes. It does cost quite abit!
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=56705

I don't see a problem with healers leveling, I just leave one dual specc for a dps specc until level 90, if I wanna grind / dailies / whatever I just replace one of my 2 healing speccs. I dont do great damage with healing gear, but the spirit > hit I get makes the deal anyway. was worse before cata ;3 (due to not having duo specc AND spirit didn't convert to hit)

To run a dungeon as a healer from freshly dinged I just reforge stats into spirit. And if it got empty gem slots I gem for spirit =p

Oh and Happy new year Takralus! o/
Edited by Wolfpaw on 02/01/2013 17:58 GMT
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90 Human Death Knight
12760
i really don;t get the point why those vendors sell white gear.

i can still remember a key ring that got delete cause it toke to much space whit t less result i mean if you delete the keyring for that.
then you really have to delete these vendors or atleast make them worth being in the game at all.
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90 Human Paladin
13605
I find the OPs questin a bit weird..
id like to reply to the question with a question myself.

If you remove white gear, what gear would then be the "worst"?.

And wont people come back here in a year and say "why do vendors only sell green gear and not blue?"

And to everyone else here who have replied in favor with replies such as or in line with "it would only make sence" or "it would help ease the gap...."
- Will you be back next year saying the exact same thing when a "question arises for blue gear to be sold on vendors aswell "as it would only make sense""?

If you want to close the "gap" wouldnt it be simply easier to keep the gear white but stronger(still below green tough)? If that really is the issue here?

im so confused, also the sentence "so new players do not have to spend their money on useless stuff"?? give me a headache why would anyone and i mean anyone choose to spend their money on an item if they considered it to be crap? - the answer probably is that it aint crap for them. Compared to green items yes sure.. but so are blues compared to green and so on.. well you get my point..
Edited by Plea on 02/01/2013 18:13 GMT
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84 Human Paladin
12335
Takralus,

Firstly thanks for the responses and for keeping this topic going really well .

A question that just came to my mind:
So lets say i am a healer but i am feeling forced to choose dps gear from quests so i can keep on questing . Why can't i choose dps and healing gear from quests ( x2 rewards ) ? The healing gear for running dungeons and battlegrounds as a healer while leveling and dps gear so i can keep on questing. If you get what I mean. Cause if i end up with dps gear from quests how can I be healer? Must I buy gear from AH? Must I queue for dungeons as a dps and if by any chance the healer in the dungeon doesn't need the lets say healing helmet i can roll too?

Thanks!


Is it really fair that a hybrid class gets two rewards from a quest while a DPS-only class gets one? I don't think that would go down very well. I recently levelled a healer myself, but as a Priest, I could happily heal through levelling dungeons in my DPS gear. I know that for Paladins and Druids for example, this isn't the case. Like I said before though, it's not that hard to pick up sets for your offspec through the AH, crafting and Pandaria vendors for characters in that level range.

I think the options are quite clear when you set out to level up; if you go for DPS, you'll get through quests at a nice pace, and this is why having two specs is really handy, because you can keep your healing/tanking spec and use it when you want to, in dungeons or PvP. It's cool that you get that diversity with your character, unlike pure DPS classes. Of course, at some point you have to make that decision when you turn a quest in—do I want this cool healing staff, or the big DPS upgrade one? But we're drifting off topic here!

The point is, gear is available to purchase in the AH or via crafting all through vanilla, TBC, Wrath, Cata and Pandaria if you want to gear up through alternate ways than quest/dungeon/PvP rewards. I'm just personally unconvinced that having vendors who virtually hand you all the upgrades you need before starting a new expansion is the best way to go.


2 things to raise the 1st and most important would be when choosing a quest reward it shows your class rewards for BOTH of your specs ie protection and fury for my warrior, I really do get sick of swapping spec just to see a quest reward only to swap back again ...

and 2nd there does seem a hugh disparity with certain items especially now toons level to 85 so much quicker for example, I have a warlock using 80 and 81 trinkets at 85 now there the only item below 372 I'm using most of the stuff is 384, but its enough to prevent me from entering the MOP starting dungeons due to there level requirent:( I wish I didn't have to do a load of quests before being able to do a dungeon in the next expansion.
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