Skill level.. cause for concern?

90 Goblin Mage
6630
So many people on here pointing out that they don't like the continual dumbing down of the game.

Simple fix - allow us to put the nerfs off or on. Give us achievements/mounts/transmog gear for beating bosses in their original format. I believe that would settle a lot of problems here.

People just don't want to spend all that time working hard to either have their accomplishments belittled. I remember clearing BwD in Cata after joining a serious raiding guild - a couple of weeks later my friendly social guild (who was stuck on the 3rd boss at the time) ended up suddenly downing everything after the nerfs. No one felt excited about the kills - we agreed that we all sort of felt dirty. Like we weren't deserving of the new epics we were wearing. However, when we killed the first two bosses after a 2- 3 weeks wiping on them we felt awesome. You could feel the good vibe running through the guild.

Whether you want to admit it or not - there's a large part of your playerbase that isn't happy with you turning the game into an autopilot snooze fest and pretty soon you're going to end up losing you're dedicated players...as well as Mr. Joe Blow who's probably gonna bail on you anyway. Just try and remember who's loyal to you and who matters more. The random guy you just met a few months ago - or the person who's been at your side for the past 8 years.
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90 Orc Shaman
15865
25/01/2013 09:55Posted by Draztal
Would you really think you had? The fact you have killed a boss 30% easier doesn't mean you have become Paragon, far from it.


Either you are twisting my words here or you didn't understand what I said.

Let me make it clearer by an example: We were slowly but surely progressing on spine of deathwing when the nerfs started rolling in. Beat spine when it was nerfed by 10%, and Madness when it was nerfed 15%. This made us feel cheated. We did not feel that we had succeeded in killing those bosses the way they were meant to be killed, it even borderlined on a feeling of shame, as there was another top guild on the server that beat both at 0% 3 weeks earlier.
That guild and ours were the two competing ones and this time we were slower, wich was injury enough - yet Blizzard forced their hand holding on us, making our accomplishment 15% weaker than theirs.

This doesn't make us into Paragon, wich is a strange, veiled insult aswell.
What I obviously meant was that we never had the chance to complete Spine or Madness at 0% before the nerfs started rolling in, and therefore couldn't pride ourselves with the feeling of accomplishment and the knowledge that we had defeated the same encounter the top guilds in the world had - even though we did so later than them wich of course is to be expected.
And before you go all "but! but! you could turn off the debuff!", we both know that doing something hard without having sh*t to show for it is pointless. On top of that, it risks us falling behind some much worse guilds that would utilize the nerf.
There is no sane reason to do it, you either defeat the bosses before the nerfs, or you fall in with the crowd that didn't make it before the nerfs rolled in.

25/01/2013 09:55Posted by Draztal
Picture a group that is stuck on a boss at 30% hp constantly for, I don't know, two months. They'll definitely consider it progress when they finally move past him, and it's fine. For you that's not true progress because they didn't kill the boss on its hardest version, and it's a valid point of view as well, but that can't be a reason to block people from moving on, particularly if we keep in mind what the developers have seen when this happens: while there are guilds out there that have the will to keep on trying for as long as it's required, it's a rare treat in most other guilds, and they eventually give up.


While I have always understood the point you are trying to make, this is where our opinions differ fundamentally, wich is strange to me as you also claim that you are a since-release vanilla player like myself.
The nerfing wasn't there at all for the first few years, and I never saw the end of Sunwell in TBC. Did that make me mad? No. A bit disappointed, yes, but there was no option - you either had the skills/tenacity to do it, or you didn't. People had respect for the Sunwell because it was hard, and we respected the few players that completed it, and rightfully so.

If we were to take the same scenario today, then all anyone would have to do is wait for your employer (Blizzard) to make the instance trivial, in order for me to reap the same rewards as those who put in blood sweat and tears to complete it when it was hard.
This, to me, is winning by having a cheat forced down my throat that I never asked for, and foremost it doesn't differentiate me - let's say that I'm one of those players that beat it at 30% nerf - from the players that beat it when it was actually hard.

This has taken the "grown up" feeling away from the game completely, and the whole thing stinks of a soccer tournament for 7 year olds where everyone gets a trophy simply for participating, even though one team won with 18-0: "don't be sad my child, everyone's a winner here!". Trophies for all participating 7 year olds are fine, but Blizzard needs to understand that WoW isn't played by 7 year olds.

I haven't had a genuine Vent/TS screamfest with my blood pumping with adrenaline so much that I almost fainted since about 4-5 years back. That feeling simply can't be accomplished today, because I don't trust in the encounters not being trivialized in order to please the bottom of the barrel.
Killing C'thun in Vanilla is still the best feeling I've ever had, because I knew that very few would accomplish that wich we had worked so insanely hard to accomplish. Today, I know that wether or not I complete something early with maximum effort won't matter squat, because it will be trivialized so that everyone can go around with a title wich some have earned the hard way. It's worth noting that there have never been more to do in the game, and there are 3 raids out currently, yet it feels as if you won't be pleased until everyone and their grandmother is able to beat all 3 on Heroic.

It saddens me and it has driven me away from raiding completely. Not because I claim to always be the one to complete raids early, but if/once I do I don't want to have that accomplishment taken away from me, the same way that I don't want to diminish someone else's accomplishment by doing something when it's 30% easier.
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91 Blood Elf Death Knight
3550
27/01/2013 07:01Posted by Masztaar
The nerfing wasn't there at all for the first few years, and I never saw the end of Sunwell in TBC.


Actually there was. Just the proper widely seen nerf was implemented with "Echoes of Doom" (or also known as Echoes of Zerg) patch, where they flat-out nerfed all 30% (if I recall correctly).
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100 Human Mage
13830
Actually there was. Just the proper widely seen nerf was implemented with "Echoes of Doom" (or also known as Echoes of Zerg) patch, where they flat-out nerfed all 30% (if I recall correctly).


You recall correctly and I personally didn't mind that nerf as it came very late (was it 1 or 2 months b4 WoTLK?) so it left the players wiping on Illidan (cough cough) with a chance to see sunwell.
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90 Orc Shaman
15865
27/01/2013 11:33Posted by Pämela
You recall correctly and I personally didn't mind that nerf as it came very late (was it 1 or 2 months b4 WoTLK?) so it left the players wiping on Illidan (cough cough) with a chance to see sunwell.


^This
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91 Blood Elf Death Knight
3550
27/01/2013 11:33Posted by Pämela
Actually there was. Just the proper widely seen nerf was implemented with "Echoes of Doom" (or also known as Echoes of Zerg) patch, where they flat-out nerfed all 30% (if I recall correctly).


You recall correctly and I personally didn't mind that nerf as it came very late (was it 1 or 2 months b4 WoTLK?) so it left the players wiping on Illidan (cough cough) with a chance to see sunwell.


BTW I do not mind at all if they adjust things on the last raid of the expansion as there's no more gear boosts. And even so after some time has passed and not as high as it was in DS. But I try to vouch for them (Blizz) to hold on the nerfs if there are other means to catch up (i.e. gear, gear upgrades etc). I am all open for people to see the places and try their hand. Just changing stuff on HC difficulty, while masses progress there should be a no no. :)
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90 Goblin Priest
13465


That's not nearly the same thing. If you want to use sports an example golf works better - everyone plays the same holes, but the pros use different tees that are further away. If you wish to use employment as an example, how about car salesman? We both put in the same hours at work, but you sell more cars so get a bigger bonus. So you'll be able to afford the new computer/car/house before we can, but we'll both get it eventually. In this case you get the new gear weeks before we do, and are working on getting even better gear than that. We working on stuff you've already done and moved past, so how does it affect you in any way at all?

"Getting the same benefit" Would be guilds like us getting the heroic gear dropping off the normal level bosses, which obviously doesn't happen (and in case you're missing the point I wouldn't actually want). We certainly don't expect to clear everything in the first week.


To be more precise, if you applied his "4.0 - 4.2 philosophy" to a sports club it would be like the Golf club denying membership and access to the course to all but the top few % of top amateur/semi pro members.

Or the bowling alley only allowing access to teams that play in leagues. Clearly they would go bust as the majority of customers are families and friends having a good time, or in the case of golf, fat business men strolling around talking about their new Jag or Rolex.

What Blizzard are doing is allowing everyone who pays the membership fee to use the course or the bowling alley (much like real life) with the less skilled members playing in fun tournaments for smaller prizes and pro's playing in pro-tournaments for big money.

Now clearly if I turned up at the bowling alley with my sister and she was immediately subject to a torrent of abuse, called an "r'tard" and I was told to get rid of her and play with someone else otherwise I'd be barred from entry.....well it goes without saying that they wouldn't get much money out of me.

Then people wonder why Blizz lost millions of customers during Cataclysm.


Yes, because Cataclysm lost millions because everything was so hard, and there was never any nerfs to allow the worst types of players to swim in legendary daggers and other wellfare epics..., wait what:S

Raiding is competition based, wether you like it or not..!

The wast majority of guilds around the world isn't composed of friends or family who can barely keyboard turn without a nerf to assist them.

This means if you as a guild who genuinely enjoy the content as released, aren't using whatever crippling game play buff / nerf that's applied, it will affect your ability to recruit players that's on par with what you have, when other guilds on your realm are using it and suddenly climb the ladders.

You players wanted to see the content, which gave you LFR, after that blizzard thought it would be a spectacular idea if those same players could also enjoy normal and heroic modes which brought you all Catastophyclysm and the loss of some 3 million subscribers.., are you eager to reap those loses again?- if so then just keep nerfing content and make everything a highway, because we all know people stick around with games that offer no challenge and no prestige, because their soooooooooo amazing....

No one minds balancing or tuning in raids when it comes to glitches or bugs, but as you clearly discovered, people do mind nerfs / buffs that means you complete end-game content in your afternoon lunch break, but I dare them.., do the same and see where it takes them.

FYI: No one is being denied anything (Golf membership analogy.., the same could be applied in Arena, ppl above me should get an automatic 30% nerf to everything that I could choose to disable right, fuc.... LOL), 1 step up in difficulty does not mean entirely new content despite that's the picture your all trying to paint, nor does 1 added mechanics mean new content.., it means a higher difficulty, and that's it!

What we're arguing is that some L O V E playing the raiding at it's released difficulty, but as stated above by me, and tons of others (and judging by cataclysm, loads of other who quit), adding a removable nerf / buff is not an option because raiding is competition based.

If wowprogress and other sites could make it, so that once a nerf / buff is applied, your kill is no longer recorded, "most" wouldn't have an issue with it, because then rankings would display what matters, and players could finally see who they are on par with instead of blizzard artificially trying to make everyone the same..!
Edited by Matarack on 28/01/2013 06:43 GMT
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90 Goblin Priest
13465
27/01/2013 08:31Posted by Azryel
The nerfing wasn't there at all for the first few years, and I never saw the end of Sunwell in TBC.


Actually there was. Just the proper widely seen nerf was implemented with "Echoes of Doom" (or also known as Echoes of Zerg) patch, where they flat-out nerfed all 30% (if I recall correctly).


Which was 3ish months before WotlK, there's a massive difference between that and letting people sit on it for 6+ months, and this time around in MoP there's already minor signs that it's going the same way.

Personally I don't believe that it happens when blizzard feels like content is being brickwalled, mostly because for all their analyzes they lack the ability to see if guilds are just plain dumb in executing tactics on simple simon content.., but I do very highly believe it comes when the kids flood the forums with their lackluster complaints, just as we saw with the valor increase, and reputation buff.

The person you quoted point still stand firm though.
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90 Orc Shaman
15865
To be more precise, if you applied his "4.0 - 4.2 philosophy" to a sports club it would be like the Golf club denying membership and access to the course to all but the top few % of top amateur/semi pro members.


No. It would be like me demanding to play in the U.S Open, except I have a free 30% miss margin wich doesn't count twoards the trophy, simply because I have a golf club membership.

^This is what it is to be "precise"
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90 Gnome Priest
0
I was once in a guild with some of the worst players I ever encountered, yet we have all HC raid content cleared ready for MoP, including what some would argue as one of the hardest fights in game Raggy HC.

This was down to perseverance and increasing skill levels of players, awareness factors and loosing the chaff.

The fact is, PVE is not difficult in any way shape or form, if your guild 10 man are wiping, get some new players, get some more gear - if you and/or all of your guild are in the current gear required for that tier of raiding and are still wiping - get some lessons on how to play.

Safe in the knowledge it's always an LTP issue.

Stop the Nerfs

Keep the wheat away from the chaff!
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91 Blood Elf Death Knight
3550
Personally I don't believe that it happens when blizzard feels like content is being brickwalled, mostly because for all their analyzes they lack the ability to see if guilds are just plain dumb in executing tactics on simple simon content.., but I do very highly believe it comes when the kids flood the forums with their lackluster complaints, just as we saw with the valor increase, and reputation buff.

The person you quoted point still stand firm though.


Not sure I see what is bad on valor buff ? Or reputation buffs. Those buffs keep alive ability to play alts. For me those are more of quality of life changes more than difficulty or dumbing-down changes.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6310
Remember that Blzzard can analyse the raid progress of every guild on every server every week. They dont come to a decision on whether the nerf an encounter because Mr Angry on the forums tells them they should, and they wont keep an encounter too tough for so long that they lose subscriptions from the majority of 'average' players.

In the end the game is part of the entertainment business, and when people show signs of no longer being entertained something has to change to engage them again. If that upsets a minority of players who want their gear to be permanently better than everyone elses, and the majority of players are happy that the content is now more accessible, its a bit of a no-brainer from the business point of view.

PVE is following the PVP model; this seasons best gear will become next seasons average gear, so the best players are always one step ahead and can still show off their epeen if thats what drives them. Everyone else knows that eventually they can access the same gear and content, just a bit later in the expansion. I dont really see why anyone would get upset with this arrangement, in what is after all a game.


Except that statistics are not everything. I can be stuck on a boss for many reasons and not one of them tells them if I want them to nerf content. That is the problem right there.
The only real good indication of what players want are the forums where players can actually say exactly what they want. Someone looking at my statistics and telling me what I want is really weird.

The second they are going to introduce raidwide buffs/nerfs in the middle of this expansion I am going to quit raiding and maybe quit the whole game. Raiding has been trivialized enough already.
I have been shafted because they 'cater to the majority' since the day I started playing this game. I really don't enjoy another nerf on top of it to make sure I can kill all the heroic bosses.
I am apparently the minority. Thankfully I still see some likeminded players here so I still have some hope.
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90 Orc Shaman
7750
The thing is, every week the content is nerfed. Players aquire better gear, they get more practice time.

Unless it is the very first boss, and there is no valor upgrades, flat nerfs are not needed.
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100 Troll Warrior
14755
tbh, I'd rather use an olympics analogy than a golf analogy.

What use is it to train for the olympics if while you are training the sprint section has been set to 5 feet within 10 minutes, so that the whole world can compete?

I'd rather train very hard and look up to those that can make the olympics so that I can really feel a winner when I win, than making it in above example.

And even if I can't make the olympics, it'll still be a goal for me to train for, and to work to. Maybe I can only make it halfway... well that leaves me with a great feeling anyway and something to do in the future.

And if I feel so entitled to see the content I go lfr. Yet this has nothing to do with the feeling (hc) raiding should give.
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1 Orc Warrior
0
Would you really think you had? The fact you have killed a boss 30% easier doesn't mean you have become Paragon, far from it.


This doesn't make us into Paragon, wich is a strange, veiled insult aswell.
What I obviously meant was that we never had the chance to complete Spine or Madness at 0% before the nerfs started rolling in, and therefore couldn't pride ourselves with the feeling of accomplishment and the knowledge that we had defeated the same encounter the top guilds in the world had - even though we did so later than them wich of course is to be expected.
And before you go all "but! but! you could turn off the debuff!", we both know that doing something hard without having sh*t to show for it is pointless. On top of that, it risks us falling behind some much worse guilds that would utilize the nerf.
There is no sane reason to do it, you either defeat the bosses before the nerfs, or you fall in with the crowd that didn't make it before the nerfs rolled in.

It saddens me and it has driven me away from raiding completely. Not because I claim to always be the one to complete raids early, but if/once I do I don't want to have that accomplishment taken away from me, the same way that I don't want to diminish someone else's accomplishment by doing something when it's 30% easier.


So you are saying you were not good enough as a guild to complete the raid as it was yet you feel nerfing it was a step to far. You also feel that nerfing it so guilds like yours which are not good enough to complete it as it starts out is a bad move. Ok odd thing to think but ok. The problem is this is not your game you do not own it nor do you make up the rules regarding how its run. Harsh is that sounds it is the situation as it stands. Now you also complain that you felt you had to leave the buffs on because other worse guilds than you left them on and completed the raid, I would beg to differ.

What makes you say the other guilds were worse than yours? They were in the same situation as you in so far as they were unable to kill the bosses as they were originally intended and they did so the same as you using the buffs. So why are they worse than you? Its all very well saying 'You should have given us longer to do it without the nerfs' well they think you had long enough they were of the opinion that if you had not done it by that time you would not be doing it (and no they were not just thinking of you before you get any ideas of importance).

So to sum up. You seem to think you are better as a guild than statistics would agree with, You say you would not have needed the nerf but were unable to complete the raid without them and still are to this day.

I say, Dont like it leave and play a different game, if you really are that good then complete the raids in the time given as that is part of the challenge as well, nerfs are a part of the life cycle of raids now so unless you are good enough to do it before they come out dont complain when they do because you need to up your game.

Also its a pretty weak argument that saying turning off the nerfs gives you nothing when others use them, What would you like other than the drops that are in the raid anyway from the word go.
Edited by Shaklarno on 28/01/2013 12:53 GMT
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90 Troll Druid
9970
27/01/2013 07:01Posted by Masztaar
Beat spine when it was nerfed by 10%, and Madness when it was nerfed 15%. This made us feel cheated. We did not feel that we had succeeded in killing those bosses the way they were meant to be killed, it even borderlined on a feeling of shame, as there was another top guild on the server that beat both at 0% 3 weeks earlier.


i was fairly sure it didnt go 0-15% in 3 weeks as we killed warmaster at 15% which took us quite a while
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26/01/2013 12:38Posted by Lambey
the comparison made the console games - i completely agree. this is an MMORPG. why should it require 3 seperate difficulty levels? this is NOT a console game, it should not be adjustable to suit any 1 persons play style on principle of the genre. dont even try to twist this point. MMORPG's are Mass Multiplayer, more than a few peoples ideas are required to completely overhaul a part of the system such as raids. you even created LFR to solve this problem. just because they want to select a higher difficulty does NOT mean it should be made easier. i don't go on to call of duty and select Veteran difficulty as a noob and expect it to be easy, and anyone who does is NOT worth affecting the play styles of others.


World of Warcraft is neither the first MMO to have varying levels of difficulty, nor the only one. You can't compare it to a completely different game (Call of Duty) as it doesn't even share the same genre nor the same design philosophies or game design.

If you look at the MMO world you'll see other titles do also adjust the difficulty of their content, in fact, there's a very popular case of such a boss in another MMO, which I won't name here for obvious reasons.

You killing normal Elegon doesn't effect my HC Elegon. When you come and ask MY elegon to be nerfed, then it affects my game. Otherwise i wouldn't care less what they do with 'your' Elegon as long as I can try and kill 'my' Elegon or wipe on 'my elegon' till i learn to move from the floor in time :)

It's not "your" heroic Elegon though (neither "their" normal Elegon). But there's something that has been said on this thread that is true. As much as some hardcore players love to blame the casuals when 'their' content has been nerfed in the past, the fact is, you'll rarely see threads asking for heroic bosses to be nerfed. Sure, you'll find the occasional thread here and there, but it's far from common.

27/01/2013 07:01Posted by Masztaar
Let me make it clearer by an example: We were slowly but surely progressing on spine of deathwing when the nerfs started rolling in. Beat spine when it was nerfed by 10%, and Madness when it was nerfed 15%. This made us feel cheated. We did not feel that we had succeeded in killing those bosses the way they were meant to be killed, it even borderlined on a feeling of shame, as there was another top guild on the server that beat both at 0% 3 weeks earlier.


3 weeks earlier? Did they turn the debuff off? Because in fact, it took 3 months for the debuff to go from 0% to 15%:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3599256 (5%, January 31)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3746119 (10%, February 28)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3899863 (15%, March 26)

But still, it's a fair point that your accomplishment felt diminished because of a debuff tackled on the boss. That's the reason why in Mists of Pandaria there're the "Cutting Edge" achievements for the three final Heroic bosses of the current tier (in fact, on the Patch 5.2 PTR they currently read "defeated before the discovery of Throne of Thunder), so although this isn't Dragon Soul and there're no nerfs in place, you have a good reason to actually try to chase those kills and earn a reward that will, no doubt, be rare among raiders come 5.2. You'll be able to show that Feat of Strength and say "I killed it before 5.2".

Also, we didn't have the Item Upgrade system that is available right now (although it'll be going away with the arrival of 5.2, at least temporarily), so the panorama you're looking at right now is vastly different than that of Dragon Soul, even if it feels like not that much has happened since then :-)
Edited by Draztal on 28/01/2013 16:38 GMT
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90 Orc Shaman
15865
3 weeks earlier? Did they turn the debuff off? Because in fact, it took 3 months for the debuff to go from 0% to 15%:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3599256 (5%, January 31)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3746119 (10%, February 28)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3899863 (15%, March 26)

But still, it's a fair point that your accomplishment felt diminished because of a debuff tackled on the boss. That's the reason why in Mists of Pandaria there're the "Cutting Edge" achievements for the three final Heroic bosses of the current tier (in fact, on the Patch 5.2 PTR they currently read "defeated before the discovery of Throne of Thunder), so although this isn't Dragon Soul and there're no nerfs in place, you have a good reason to actually try to chase those kills and earn a reward that will, no doubt, be rare among raiders come 5.2. You'll be able to show that Feat of Strength and say "I killed it before 5.2".

Also, we didn't have the Item Upgrade system that is available right now (although it'll be going away with the arrival of 5.2, at least temporarily), so the panorama you're looking at right now is vastly different than that of Dragon Soul, even if it feels like not that much has happened since then :-)


Yeah weeks, months, days, hours, you get the picture and it has very little to do with the point I was making. The rest of your post is pretty reassuring though, and I hope that it stays that way for everyone's sake, even by the end of the expansion.
It's just the mentality display that has scared me out of raiding because I don't trust it not to be trivialized anymore. The real question to ask is if it was okay to start nerfing as early as they did, considering how long we had to suffer with that instance (I know this isn't up to you but I'd like to hear your opinion on it).

28/01/2013 12:51Posted by Shaklarno
What makes you say the other guilds were worse than yours? They were in the same situation as you in so far as they were unable to kill the bosses as they were originally intended and they did so the same as you using the buffs. So why are they worse than you?


Now your smug post intrigues me, either you are just out to try and put a button on what I said so you can strut away with a feeling of having won an argument, or you actually believe what you are saying.

Here goes: We were in 2nd place on our realm. We were 2 bosses ahead of the guild before us, THAT is what makes us a better guild than the others, same as the guild that completed madness on 0% first was a better guild than ours. Easy enough for you?

28/01/2013 12:51Posted by Shaklarno
So to sum up. You seem to think you are better as a guild than statistics would agree with, You say you would not have needed the nerf but were unable to complete the raid without them and still are to this day.


27/01/2013 07:01Posted by Masztaar
We were slowly but surely progressing on spine of deathwing when the nerfs started rolling in.


Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. What I'm saying is that we would have done it within a few raids, but never had the chance to. I haven't mentioned statistics anywhere but if you are referring to Blizzard's statistics about people hitting brick walls and quitting then we were obviously not part of those statistics either, since we actually kept going. It's the guilds that stopped that gave Blizzard the incentive to trivialize the content. I'm fine with trivializing normal content even though LFR exists, but I'm not fine with trivializing HC content.

28/01/2013 12:51Posted by Shaklarno
I say, Dont like it leave and play a different game


I say, give your opinion on the subject or go somewhere else. Trying to diminish posts without actually adding anything is the definition of trolling, and foremost it gives nothing to the discussion. Would also be fun to know how long you've been playing for if you think it's as easy as just "leave and play a different game". I've invested 9 years into this game with betas included and I'm hellbent on giving my feedback in order to help make it as good as it can be.

Although I guess I'm the idiot now for talking to a coward behind a lvl 1 alt.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
10980
3 weeks earlier? Did they turn the debuff off? Because in fact, it took 3 months for the debuff to go from 0% to 15%:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3599256 (5%, January 31)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3746119 (10%, February 28)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3899863 (15%, March 26)

-it was actually 2 month but ok :P
28/01/2013 18:51Posted by Masztaar
Yeah weeks, months, days, hours, you get the picture

28/01/2013 18:51Posted by Masztaar
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. What I'm saying is that we would have done it within a few raids


For a person that call other people dumb, you should first get your facts straight in place.

P.S
28/01/2013 18:51Posted by Masztaar
Although I guess I'm the idiot now for talking to a coward behind a lvl 1 alt.


Sorry couldn't resist, how does it makes him a coward? Maybe.. oh no... or... no still no idea.
Edited by Lemons on 28/01/2013 19:23 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
8480
I miss the good old days were there was 2 options, 1: You was good enough/hardcore enough to clear all the raid. 2: You simply wasnt.

If there is something I truly miss it is to walk around in azeroth like I did in vanilla, and suddenly there is some badass guy with almost full tier 2 walking past me and I am like "Dayum! That guy must be insanely good, I wish I will get to raid and become as good as he is some day". This was back when I was 13 years old.

I never got to raid anything in Vanilla simply because I wasnt good enough, when I heard that there was coming an expansion (TBC) I decided that I would definetly raid in the upcoming expansion, I put in the time and effort and simply became better and better, I raided throughout the whole TBC and WOTLK. Afther cata launch I dont enjoy it at all anymore, because anyone can do it.
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