Skill level.. cause for concern?

90 Human Death Knight
8115
But still, dont beg for nerfs, just try to improve, not only yourself, but also the rest of the raid group :) Nerfing it ruins it for the rest.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3485
Oh same forum troll shows up trying to start this us vs them topic. Give it some rest.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
11200
22/01/2013 19:58Posted by Acelius
^ If you cant handle it, go do LFR.


I suppose they would gladly go and do "lfr" difficulty of 10 man organized raiding if it meant that "lfr" difficulty would mean lets say a 10-15% nerfed encounter not a complete faceroll which could be completed while half raid afk difficulty that random lfr tools is. Sadly they dont have such possibility so they wipe week after week on the same bosses which results only in their frustration.
And im gonna answear to possible atack - saying that when 5.2 hits 5.1 raids will be nerfed whether gradually or will get a blank x % nerf - in 5.2 organized guilds wont be interested with 5.1 raids casue they will be busy wiping on 1-2 5.2 bosses instead clearing nerfed 5.1 ones.
Edited by Liliith on 22/01/2013 23:22 GMT
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90 Human Priest
17305
You separate the raid in 2 groups to deal with risen columns and we get killed of the sparks, which deals 50k per tick


I've never noticed that high damage from the sparks, as long as tanks are tanking them. Sure, they can kill off DPS pretty easily if left untanked, but that's a problem you can solve without nerfing the boss, really.

Last time we killed it (heroic, but I don't know is the damage any different from normal), our warrior tank took a TOTAL 575k from the Cosmic Sparks during the whole fight, that's not much damage on a tank really. Our DK tank took 734k damage from the sparks, over the course of the fight (2 add phases).

Yep, offtopic.

On topic, I have a feeling the playerbase simply has shifted too much from the "original" playerbase, and the game is adjusting to that (or, game changed and has drawn different type of players, either way). Most people in today's WoW don't care about the epic challenges, don't care about becoming better at the game, they just want to hop in and play and smack some enemies.

It's also these kind of people that don't achieve as much in life, cause life doesn't get 'nerfed' for them.


The way people like to play some games doesn't necessarily reflect their RL personality at all. I know a few people who are very succesful in their real life, but don't have any desire to become amazingly good at WoW. They just want to play, really.
Is there any studies about this btw? Could be interesting to read. There was an interesting study on Paragon's website about personality types&raid progress. There definitely were some dominating personality traits when it comes to the more elite players of the game, actually. I remember being a very rare personality amongst the "hardcore" (my attitude towards the game) group myself!

EDIT: I've never been personally stuck on a boss week after week (sure, heroic LK and Ragnaros took some time for us, but I'd guess it's a bit different "stuck" on an endboss like that), but if I were to be in such situation, I'd be dying to know what's the problem and how to solve it, and actually make it happen. I guess I simply don't really understand how people get stuck like that, I mean you get new gear every week etc., logically stuff should become easier over time. Oh and I'm not trying to feel somehow "ALMIGHTY NEVER GETTING STUCK", I'd just be really curious to be a in group like that, and see how they solve the problems they're facing and why those solutions don't work.
Edited by Kirvbanana on 22/01/2013 23:28 GMT
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12 Undead Warlock
740

It's also these kind of people that don't achieve as much in life, cause life doesn't get 'nerfed' for them.


The way people like to play some games doesn't necessarily reflect their RL personality at all. I know a few people who are very succesful in their real life, but don't have any desire to become amazingly good at WoW. They just want to play, really.


And I respect that, I never said that it's those kind of people. It's the kind of people that don't want to become better in the game or put any effort in it, but ask that blizzard brings everything down to their level cause they want to get the items / do all the content.

If you are a player who cannot play with a raid group, then have fun doing LFR and pugging the first few bosses. If all you wanna do is raid but don't have the time to do it, then maybe the MMO-genre is not for you
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90 Pandaren Monk
5245
Hey guys, a panda that hasn't heard of paragraphs.

I have.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9060
@Kirvbanana

I spent some time to dig these up, so I might as well post them:

http://www.paragon.fi/blogs/personality-test-results-part-1
http://www.paragon.fi/blogs/personality-test-results-part-2-analysis-and-discussion

Introverts love WoW. :3
Edited by Shahei on 23/01/2013 00:21 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Just so people do know... I did put a space between each paragraph - the reason why this did not get shown.. i am not sure.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9060
23/01/2013 00:24Posted by Syjin
Just so people do know... I did put a space between each paragraph - the reason why this did not get shown.. i am not sure.


Don't worry about it. Just re-check your post next time, and edit if necessary. Things can get messy here sometimes. And some ppl are jerks. (Sometimes even me. >_> But you didn't heard this... )
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Also I dont understand how the majority of posts I read are responding in a negative way, neuro plasticity in the context that I described only offers positive effects towards your experience in game and your experience in life.

Also, just because there happend to be an error with my space key, that doesnt mean you should totally disregard my perfectly valid and scientifically backed and solidified point just because there happend to be a minor error.

Also, please may you read the post and share your opinion on neuroplasticity and in extension its effects on gaming, I would also like it if Blizzard made a comment.
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Ok the community should now see properly structured paragraphs and now be able to properly read in and hopefully absorb the information I provided as I want to see a progression in skill level of the community, not the gradual errosion.
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
22/01/2013 12:31Posted by Byakurai
Of course, it may look selfish to ask for nerfs if you can overcome the content at its current difficulty, but, isn't it equally selfish to deny others content just because they don't have your skill?


This to me sounds like an attempt to say that a player with a currently.. say a skill level socially accepted as poor could not improve to.. perhaps, be a ranked #1 gladiator, in neuroscience this was commonly accepted but with modern day science and views, we now know that this, older way of thinking is proven to be wrong.

We now have proven that your brains potential is virtually unlimited depending on your chain of thoughts and in extension body chemistry through your concious ability to control youe emotions and in correlation your bodies chemistry and in further extension your neuro pathways aswell as your ability to further progress said pathways between the two hemispheres of your brain.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
13770
22/01/2013 12:07Posted by Draztal
Of course, it may look selfish to ask for nerfs if you can overcome the content at its current difficulty, but, isn't it equally selfish to deny others content just because they don't have your skill?


I'm amazed by your patience with the posters, especially the arrogant ones, but I guess that's why you're a blue and I'm not. ;).

++++ for you!
Edited by Rorcanna on 23/01/2013 01:19 GMT
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90 Human Warlock
12295
22/01/2013 12:07Posted by Draztal
Because facerolling through a videogame is fun. No it is not.


For some people it is. Some people only want some mindless fun. Something they can do to relax rather than having to set their mind on overcoming a virtual challenge. That's one of the many reasons why invoking majorities in online discussions just doesn't work.



That's what 5 mans, pet battles, dailies, archeology or lfr is for.

Rewarding people for not putting in any effort is just wrong on so many levels and sends out the completely wrong message.
Rewards increase with the effort you put in. Everywhere, that's how life is. If you don't see why you should put in any effort with a video game and just enjoy the atmosphere or staring at a wall while talking to your friends, everyone is free to do so but you can't possibly be so insane to expect any rewards for it.

22/01/2013 12:07Posted by Draztal
Of course, it may look selfish to ask for nerfs if you can overcome the content at its current difficulty, but, isn't it equally selfish to deny others content just because they don't have your skill?


No one is denying them content, that's what LFR or normal modes is for. What's so hard to understand about that? We're denying them itemlevel, yes. A kind of itemlevel that isn't need to succeed in pet battles or LFR.

So that you, as community manager even have to ask that question is rather mind boggling.
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90 Goblin Priest
13465
I am completely tired of the hardcore-casual war in the forums.

It is pretty useless, as draztal already posted, whats the truth about people playing this game:

We all have our own reason to do what we do


I love to play the game casually. I love to play for fun, and not for accomplishments. I play a lot of alts.

I never asked to make heroic raids more easy, as it is not my content (in normal cases, just lets forget about end expansion raid difficulty nerfs).

I just want to be able to play the content. I cant play on a schedule, so it is currently impossible for me to play organized raids, even if i would like to.

I understand that there are people playing for accomplishments.

I understand that there are people who dont like what i like.

I dont want others to suffer, because i only would like to have my own personal playing style as only source of fun.

But i also dont want to suffer, because others dont like my playstyle.

Because of that i always like options over enforcing. I love to have options to level up chars or reputation.

It's fine for me to add special content for hardcore gamers, but i expect hardcore gamers to tolerate my playing style as well. And not to ask for the removal of content i play.

Instead of asking for extreme changes, try to find compromises.


I think your missing the point here, maybe intentionally to get your own point across although that's not needed.

It's not a war as you call it between "casuals" or "hardcore", one game play vs another, it's as simple as us having three difficulties in the game, which leaves enough room for every type of player, unskilled n' skilled alike, organised or not.

If a certain type of players ask for nerfs on normal mode to overcome an encounter because of wrong tactics, bad raid leading, bad players, eventually they will hit another "wall".

If we cc the cosmic sparks (frost nova) tupon release they will all go to the healers, killing them and leading to a wipe. We can't slow them because we had no hunter.
We are doing it right, but the great amount of damage (specally cosmic sparks) for a fight with only 2 healers kills us.
Please, nerf it.
Slow the sparks movement (they got me even with the increased movement feet enchant) or make them do less damage. That would be enough.


Case in point of a group that's yet to discover through their own effort, or through asking, that sparks reset on agro tables when cc'd, it's as simple as not using any cc on the cosmic sparks and letting the tank on either side pick them, and not to dps them til the groups are gathering again before the floor respawns, at which point one tank takes them all using a strong cd after the first ae-stun.
Yet for as easy as it is, and the mere fact that tons of guilds do this encounter on a weekly basis, and have done since week 1 in Msv, this group is asking for nerfs.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the logic in asking for nerfs because people fail at recognising what's going on, or even asking on some forum for help!

If nerfing normal modes was the solution, then you'd breeze through that like it was LFR, because there is actually not that big of a difference once you get a little gear (Natural nerf), but when a group like this hits heroic modes, just thinking Stoneguards or Feng, then what?

I personally do believe LFR have had a bigger impact on the community and game then most would be willing to admit, especially blizzard.
It's created a race of bad players who for all intents and purposes, can't improve, or won't improve, and why should they?

LFR was introduced as the almighty tool that allowed everyone to see content, yet nerfing normal and heroic modes are becoming baseline for some obscure reason based on a magic %, instead of just letting the players doing these difficulties, handle their own progression, why?-

Because it's no longer about seeing content, it's about making sure that the players unable to improve get the same gear as those putting in a bit extra, vanity was a great tool to encourage players improving, but with that removed, it's hurting on the overall raiding scene when it comes to finding capable and able players, right from the top (Vodka being the latest) to the back end of the scale.

Not to point fingers, or make anyone feel butthurt, but I wish LFR (or rather que-systems) wasn't implemented ever, as much as a "quality of life" it was supposed to be, I firmly believe it's done more harm then good at this point!
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67 Dwarf Hunter
10965
23/01/2013 02:20Posted by Wellyou
Rewards increase with the effort you put in. Everywhere, that's how life is. If you don't see why you should put in any effort with a video game and just enjoy the atmosphere or staring at a wall while talking to your friends, everyone is free to do so but you can't possibly be so insane to expect any rewards for it.


To play Devils Advocate, why not? Just because my hypothetical friend Bob plays the game how he wants to, why shouldn't he get ingame *rewards*? Lets say he spends 3 hours a day pet battling, doing his dailies and chatting. What makes someone who raids instead for those three hours more deserving?

PS - Please define effort as it relates to WoW. In genuinly curious about this as, no matter what your playstyle is, all you're doing is pushing a mouse about whilst slumped in your computer chair.
Edited by Keg on 23/01/2013 03:36 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3485
23/01/2013 03:34Posted by Keg
To play Devils Advocate, why not? Just because my hypothetical friend Bob plays the game how he wants to, why shouldn't he get ingame *rewards*? Lets say he spends 3 hours a day pet battling, doing his dailies and chatting. What makes someone who raids instead for those three hours more deserving?


Simple - you do not need raid gear for the pet battles. Keep rewards respective to their source. Pet batles should be rewarding that area of playing - cooler pets, maybe even pet related titles (like tamer is now), transmog gear (i.e. farmer/chefs retire for doing farm dailies in 4 winds, and items to boost cooking would be perfect reward for that aspect).

Why people expect every aspect of game rewarding same level of rewards ? If I play 3 hours and kill heroic bosses I want my raid armor look as fancy as of a PvE heros armor should look, and when I do arena, i want look more furious and be rwarded accoridngly.

Rewards should be balanced. Not that when i do 1000 pet battles I gain bonus pve item for raids.

Sorry, but i do not see all players equal. The fact I invest my time and resources should entitle me rewards accordingly compared to player who chats 3 hours in Orgrimmar and does LFR every now and then. Am I elitist thinking so ? Maybe. But be noted I am one of those medium level players who cannot say that "i think so because I am one of unique Fearless snowflakes" - no I am actually one of those iddle-lot types.
Edited by Azryel on 23/01/2013 06:09 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
19665

No. The problem is not that we are doing the fight wrong. We all have looked SEVERAL guides, looked a lot of diferent video kills, and diferents way to do it.

You need to separate the raid in 2 groups (its not optional, its a must) because the columns (the correct word is "empyreal focus") needs to be killed in pairs to deactivate them, so yes, one group must go to the right and one to the left. And the 2 groups must move clockwise (or not, but) both on the same cyclic direction.

If you kill the columns individually, they won't die at the same time because:
1) Not every raider does the same dps
2) columns will die more slowly with only one dps on each column, and you could not move between them because the confronted column must be deactivated also to cross between columns.
3) cosmic sparks high damage get worse, since you cannot escape from them (there are less space because if you kill columns individually they wont die at same time).


Well that's confirmed it, you're doing the fight wrong, I advise you find better guides.

I've downed elegon on both normal and heroic, I'm not the one blocking on it for months.

You handle the "empyreal focus" the same way you handle the sparks, you split the raid into 6 and dps them individually.

Don't sit there saying I'M the one doing it wrong when it's YOU doing it wrong and being unable to kill it.

1) They don't need to - once one person kills theirs they move onto one of the others they have access to.
2) It doesn't MATTER if they die slower, it MATTERS when they die at different times - each time one dies elegon gains a haste buff that = more adds. THAT is worse than the columns lasting a bit longer and THAT is why you're being overun by adds.
3) Cosmic sparks are not an issue, by the time they start spawning all of the "empyreal focus" should be just about dead - since Elegon wont have the haste buff that your "strategy" is giving him

You're doing the fight wrong, don't dare sit there telling me I'm wrong when I actually try to help you, it's no wonder you're wiping on Elegon for months if you're both a) doing it wrong, and b) not capable of accepting that fact and arguing with people who try to help.

If THIS is why people want nerfs, no wonder they think contents hard...
Edited by Nagassh on 23/01/2013 06:39 GMT
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90 Orc Warlock
10960
Most of the players who say content is too easy in this thread have only cleared half of the heroic content , if that - even after you look up their mains on wowprogress. Some guys have 1 kill of heroic sha and feel the need to post its derp easymode - if thats the case then why dont you have 5-7 heroic sha kills again ? You have some serious issues with yourself if you cant handle it other players are having fun on a challenge for their group.

Seriously, for an average group the content is not herp derp easy at all, its challenging enough to keep them busy a whole content patch easily. Could I have cleared more content than I have on this toon ? Surely , but keep in mind my group of "losers" can only raid 4 hours a week as we also have other things to do in our busy lives.

NORMAL raids arent meant to be beaten only by those who spend 10h+ a week if not more. Blizzard had stated many times that the tough kids should play on heroic mode and you can say all you want but hc's really arent THAT easy, bar a few bosses its very challenging and mostly fun content.

Lastly :

Heroic Terrace of Endless Spring
H: Protectors of the Endless: 702 (1.85%)
H: Tsulong: 536 (1.41%)
H: Lei Shi: 1145 (3.01%)
H: Sha of Fear: 254 (0.67%)

Why should a gamemaker even bother trying to cater less than 2% of the raiding community even more than they do ? If this game is too easy for you then try this thing called school / working out / dating / doing well on your job on top of it and then without going bananas for three weeks on progress content release try to clear all of the heroic bosses and say with a straight face its too easy.
Edited by Dotsandbolts on 23/01/2013 08:26 GMT
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90 Worgen Druid
10975
Yeah, I find it very amusing that most people who post here saying "oh, this game is too easy" and "made for noobs", have barely done any heroic content, at least according to the char they post with. It's hard to act like you are all that, when we can quite easy check the real you out.
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