5.2 class balance - mage, rogue

25 Undead Mage
80
Posting this on an alt because I just know someone will derail the thread within seconds if I post it on my main top start bashing my class.

Looking at the 5.2 patch notes and latest changes I'm starting to get seriously worried. Some of the changes Blizzard are considering here are so utterly absurd they defy belief, and they primarily center around these 3 classes for some reason. These mostly come from the synergy of several mechanics they are adding at the same time.

Mage:
- Invocation now removes Evocation's cooldown, and reduces its channeling time and duration by 50%. A completed Evocation now grants 15% increased damage for 1 minute after an Evocation is completed, instead of 25% increased damage for 40 seconds. Passive mana regeneration is reduced by 50% only while Invoker's Energy is active.
- Ice Barrier
- Not yet listed change to Blazing Speed. 10 second cooldown.

Okay, so now mages can break all CC and run away like a mongoloid every 10 seconds. Even if you somehow reach him, he has a massive shield absorbing your damage. If, somehow magically, you get through that while trying to chase him down, he will run away again, at which point you are surely out of cooldowns, and heal himself to full by spamming Evocation. Alternatively, he can simply choose to go for basically wearing plate armor.

Rogue:
- Rogues already did insane burst, but usually ran out of energy before it became a problem. Worry not, however, for now they shall have 20 additional energy and an ability that instantly gives them 5 combo points.
- Even if you somehow get away, Shuriken Toss now deals significantly more damage.
- I'm very worried about Shadow Focus. Does this also apply for the 3 seconds after opening?

Anyway, it's pretty obvious rogues are going to be stunlocking everything that doesn't have a healer on it. And even if they don't and you somehow manage to kite his new baseline Shadowstep, he will simply smoke bomb and kill you with Shuriken Tosses inside of it. Like a baws.

Seriously, how do they even make this up?

~Edited by Taepsilum~ Only Warlocks are allowed to curse.
Edited by Taepsilum on 05/02/2013 15:11 GMT
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90 Gnome Priest
14360
let me guess you are a warrior ?
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90 Human Warlock
2250
05/02/2013 13:40Posted by Widdi
let me guess you are a warrior ?


Correction. An angry warrior!
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58 Goblin Death Knight
8750
Doesn't PVP have its own forum? Why is this is general?

oh and QQ.
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25 Undead Mage
80
Wow, even if you post on an alt people manage to derail it to be about something completely different! :D

No, I'm not. What's it to you?
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90 Gnome Priest
14360
05/02/2013 13:41Posted by Blitzcrankop
Correction. An angry warrior!


a wild warrior appears.
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25 Undead Mage
80
Doesn't PVP have its own forum? Why is this is general?

oh and QQ.


Strange. I switched character and it decided to put it into the general forum and I didn't notice it wasn't the PvP forum before posting. My apologies, but it really doesn't matter. This WILL actually effect the entire game because it's just that bloody absurd.
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58 Goblin Death Knight
8750
05/02/2013 13:43Posted by Ranoh
This WILL actually effect the entire game because it's just that bloody absurd.


No it won't because 70% of us don't PVP and another 15% or so are mages and rogues.

This happens every single patch. If they buffed your spec to be OP, you wouldn't be coming out saying "no blizzard, please don't make me so OP" now would you.
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25 Undead Mage
80
05/02/2013 13:45Posted by Deadgob
This WILL actually effect the entire game because it's just that bloody absurd.


No it won't because 70% of us don't PVP and another 15% or so are mages and rogues.

This happens every single patch. If they buffed your spec to be OP, you wouldn't be coming out saying "no blizzard, please don't make me so OP" now would you.


That number (mages and rogues) will grow.

Substantially.

Try levelling a character and take a look at the classes present! :p
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90 Night Elf Druid
14555
You do realise that there's also a load of players that don't give a .... about x class being OP or not and just play what they like?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15295


That number (mages and rogues) will grow.

Substantially.


And the number of warriors will decrease. Not a loss/loss for everyone.
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25 Undead Mage
80
05/02/2013 14:00Posted by Gaija
You do realise that there's also a load of players that don't give a .... about x class being OP or not and just play what they like?


It's not about what you choose to play. It's about what you meet.
Have fun being 1-shot on PvP servers every 10 minutes by an equally levelled, equally geared rogue. Already now nearly every dungeon group has at least 2 rogues or mages in them. Class diversity please?

Levelling up through BG's, which might otherwise have been extremely fun, is also going to be nearly impossible unless you play one of these two classes.

I normally don't post like this about class balance issues, but this is just crazy. I haven't seen anything like this since vanilla.

05/02/2013 14:03Posted by Ilyrian
And the number of warriors will decrease. Not a loss/loss for everyone.


Gz. You no longer have to deal with 1 totally overpowered godclass, but 2. I'm sure you are terribly happy, no?
Edited by Ranoh on 05/02/2013 14:09 GMT
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Community
The Glyph of Evocation seems to have been updated on the PTR.
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=42738/glyph-of-evocation

If you have the Invocation talent, a full Evocation will only heal you for 20%.
So, yes a mage will be able to spam it with the invocation talent, but since evocation reduces the channelling time and duration by 50%, this also means that it will heal exactly the same as it did before, since the glyph changed from 40% to 20% Health.

The old Invocation also had a 10 second cooldown, that means that although mages couldn't spam it, it wasn't that much different… Evocation used to last for 6 seconds, that means they would only have 4 seconds downtime on evocation and to be honest, going from 4 seconds of evocation downtime to 0 seconds, is not such a huge difference, because chances are, the first evocation that regenerated 40% HP for 6 seconds was enough of a buffer for the mage to wait 4 more seconds and move away or blink/frost nova/pet nova/sheep and do it again.

Still, I’m not trying to defend the changes here, simply stating some facts and my own opinion, keep in mind that anything is still subject to change and it’s exactly this kind of feedback that we need to make us rethink anything that might need tweaking. Thanks for keeping us on our toes ;)

P.S. Please avoid cursing on our forums, having to delete/moderate posts that actually have really good and valuable opinions but infringe on our rules due to a bit of cursing can be such a waste sometimes…
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25 Undead Mage
80
f you have the Invocation talent, a full Evocation will only heal you for 20%.
So, yes a mage will be able to spam it with the invocation talent, but since evocation reduces the channelling time and duration by 50%, this also means that it will heal exactly the same as it did before, since the glyph changed from 40% to 20% Health.


In other words, no change. However, Invocataion-specced Evocation applies all your healing at the end of the cast, and so this applies healing more often. In addition, you can fit in another Evocation before the 10 seconds or up. Whereas before you got only 40% healing off in 10 seconds, you now get 60%, and it's easier to do it.

The big difference here is not actually evocation itself though, but the newfound ability to run EXTREMELY fast to get away and actually cast them. The fact that Evocation with Invocation is literally like Healing Touch for ferals or Lesser Healing Wave for a shaman (in terms of healing done) but returns mana instead of using it is a little silly though.

You may have noticed I said 3 classes but only listed 2 in my OP. This is because I originally had Monks with Ring of Peace on it as well, but frankly I'm not sure if it will be a problem.

Rogue burst REALLY needs toning down, and the best way to do it is to stop making abilities super-cheap and make sure that energy is a limited resource that actually means something.

Thanks for listening.
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