IS this what this once great game has come to.

90 Human Mage
13015
touching read, and i have to say i really like the idea of 'mentoring guilds'.

WoW was my first game of any kind, and if my then bf hadn't played and been around to show me whats what i'm fairly sure i'd have been a crappy player too. Not that i'm imba now or anything :P

Ingame i always answer if someone asks for help or advice, in /w if they ask in trade. It takes a few seconds/minutes to help and gives me that warm glowy feeling inside.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6465
Remember that it's the Korean gaming community, they all are taking games too seriously in general..
Edited by Draeneifury on 09/02/2013 16:13 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11175
Brilliant read.
The poor little warrior.

It's sad that this is the case throughout the game and I often see it myself whenever I run a dungeon, LFR or anything of the sort. I'll pride myself on helping people out as and when I can.

Just recently I seen a little level 12 troll rogue in a few pieces of white gear asking for gold outside the auction house, when asked why he replied he needed to buy a few pieces so he wouldn't keep dying to mobs. People were either telling him to stop begging, gtfo or here and there telling him he should try questing for gear.

Obviously the poor thing was clueless so I bought out a couple of green items and opened a trade with the greens and 100g for him.
Obviously he was over the moon and excited spamming /s with words of thanks. I thought his appreciation was really cute so I invited him into a party and took him on my rocket and flew him around. I also took him into RFC and explained how instances worked, showed him the bosses etc and he was trudging behind me looting all that epic silver that had dropped. Then I flew him over to his questing area and helped him out a bit, told him what to do and where to go and left him on his way.

I probably spent an hour or more just helping him out and getting him started, explaining what stats he needed as a rogue and why he couldn't use certain items (level/different armor type etc) it wasn't much but at least it was a kick start.

It's not the first time I've done it either; The reason I enjoy helping the little newbies is because when I first started playing WoW I was lucky I had people helping me out. Some people don't and become lost/clueless and end up quitting out of frustration or the general hostility towards new players from the community. It might only be a few players here and there but it's a start!
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MVP
90 Gnome Priest
18540
I was doing the first half of Mogu'shan Vaults earlier this week in LFR, and after we had killed Feng the Accursed some guy asks in raid why he didn't get to roll for loot. Of course there's just silence afterward, because in LFR people never talk to each other unless it's to complain or whine.

Regardless, after 30 seconds the silence feels a bit embarassing, so I ask him if he has any Elder Charms of Good Fortune. He says no. I then say that the bonus roll is only availiable to him if he has Elder Charms of Good Fortune, and that each bonus roll costs a charm. He then says he wasn't aware of that.

Then some other guy in the raid suddenly asks how to acquire these Elder Charms of Good Fortune. I tell him that there's an NPC in the Shrine of Seven Stars that offers a quest for 3 Elder Charms of Good Fortune each week, which requires 90 Lesser Charms of Good Fortune, and that he can obtain those from daily quests (and pet battles in the next patch).

Then lo and behold if a third guy doesn't ask if he still gets loot from the bosses if he doesn't use a charm. And I explain that he does, though sometimes only gold, and so on.

At this point other people start chipping in explaining that it's best just to use charms on the bosses where you want certain loot and such. And there's a little talk about the fact that players can only hold a maximum of 10 Elder Charms of Good Fortune at a time, but you can have as many Lesser Charms as you want, and that you can only recieve loot from a boss in LFR once per week, but that you can spend as many charms on a boss each week as you want, and so on.

By the time we kill Gara'jal the Spiritbinder and everyone has left the raid, I feel that while it's nice that those people who didn't know much about the looting system now know more about it, it's also quite depressing that no one had told them all that before.

There is definitely something that's going wrong at the moment in terms of....it seems like the community is polarizing itself.
There are those players who are really good and who possess a lot of knowledge about the game, and then there are those who aren't so good and who don't know so much – and those two groups just slide further and further apart from each other.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
Back in the day of WOW vanilla I was extremely competitive player.

6 days a week raids and on 7th day - pot farming.

Back in they day we still had Main tanks and I was it.
The honor and pride that was felt back then is had to describe. My guild even went so fat as to make sure I have Thunderfury before we started BWL.

At that time we use to wipe for weeks on some bosses ( Garr anyone ) before mastering tactics. But there was no drama or anger. We laughed, we had fun, we became friends as much as some of my RL friends are.

TBC came and I lost interest then. Just wasnt "WOW" for me. Paused untill mid WOTKL. Came back only to find a great deal of my old mates still actively playing. Great I thought. Rolled a DK, busted my as* to get gear as soon as possible and join them in raids as semi casual player ( family on my back and all ). Of course we will have you back Paske.

Bare in mind that I have missed whole TBC expansion and a good part of WOTL. Gems, rotations, everything changed.

Anyway I joined as DK DPS when guild was allready preparing for ToC and Ulduar was on farm. Naturally my DPS was low as was my gear. My raiding skill was low, I simply needed time to adjust. Guild was not interested in helping me get gear, which was fine. I grinded and prepared for new raiding patch ( ToC ).

The patch came, we started to raid. Still under geared my friend and RL seeing my low DPS inspects me. Paske - your gems are all wrong, rotation is all wrong and gear is low. I say - yes that is all true, but I have asked for help numerous times. Was away for a long time, need some tips and a bit of help to get the new mechanics under my finger tips. He replyed simply - sorry Paske, we have new raid in 2 days, get better by then, kicked from raid....

At the time my pride was bruised, but though, f**k, I can do this. Two days later my rotation was good, gems were correct, but still gear was low and game skill wasnt up to speed with rest of guild mates that raided four nights a week. So after two wipes I get a wisper - Sorry paske, your DPS is low, we need someone better, need new gear ASAP because we are going for realm first Norm and HC. I said nothing and left. Never again asking for a raid spot.

These were my friends, mates, co raiders. We raided for nights on end, not because we wanted new loot ( OK who doesn't like loot ) , but because it was fun. We chated on Ventrilo / TS between bosses. Sometimes wiping because no one could focus from all the laughter in voice chat. They were discarding me without so much as lifting a finger to help me.

The only one who would help me and I am thankful to this day is another DK that was better then me in many ways. He was a new player and sadly years erased his name from my memory since we didnt bump into each other too often. But when we did he would give me tips, show me elitistjerks forums, help my rotation.... He who I had known for days, not friends that were with me for years.

In the end, during WOTKL I lead and was successful in many PUG raids up to and including Sindragosa. Killed Arthas once, but was not my raid. So yeah, I did see raids back then. But my friends discarding me to get "Realm first" and more loot faster hurts to this day.

Switched servers since then and may things happened, but that feeling of fun we had during WOW vanilla was never found again in WOW. Experienced it during my long EVE hiatus where friendship that was forged burns bright still, even though I don't really play that game anymore.

So bottom line is - your achievements, gear, cr*p, doesn't mean ANYTHING if you sacrifice fun and friendship to aquire it. New patch will come, new expansion will come and your gear will be Transmog gear. Play the game for fun not for loot.

As for me. Today I share a guild with some friends from RL and in game that I traveled across Europe to meet ( long story ). Never raided in true sence since WOTKL. Sure enough mates in my guild put some pressure to try raiding again. To pick up that sword and shield and tank once again, let the Thinder sing as they say. But fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I play LFR - simply to avoid time when wife is watching soaps and kid is asleep. Some PVP ( no Arenas, just not good enough in PVP for that, Im a PVE player ) and generally do dailies and alts.
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09/02/2013 18:19Posted by Jito
There are those players who are really good and who possess a lot of knowledge about the game, and then there are those who aren't so good and who don't know so much – and those two groups just slide further and further apart from each other.


The community is being locked in its guilds. People know each others for years. New players have a hard time to join those old groups of friends.

Thats the curse of an old game, i believe.

Lets try to find a reset-button for the community. Probably we would start over with realm communities, which would have to take some time to build guild communities then. If we found the reset-button for the community, also let try to find the "i know it all"-button for the players, which would reset game knowledge.

Then there only would be new players, with no locked social structures. We all would have to find guilds again and people who would play together with us. We all would have to learn the game from scratch again.

I sometimes think exactly this is the feeling some people are looking for.
Edited by Nessaya on 09/02/2013 18:44 GMT
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42 Undead Mage
1590
09/02/2013 16:11Posted by Draeneifury
Remember that it's the Korean gaming community, they all are taking games too seriously in general..


that country is hated from the whole world so who cares ?

getting told in school when you do bad things say you're japanese tells all
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- CS
90 Draenei Priest
11615
09/02/2013 18:57Posted by Xiun
that country is hated from the whole world so who cares ?

I believe you're getting your Koreas mixed up.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
3765
There are those players who are really good and who possess a lot of knowledge about the game, and then there are those who aren't so good and who don't know so much – and those two groups just slide further and further apart from each other.


The community is being locked in its guilds. People know each others for years. New players have a hard time to join those old groups of friends.
...........
Then there only would be new players, with no locked social structures. We all would have to find guilds again and people who would play together with us. We all would have to learn the game from scratch

It's more of a question about how hardcore you are. I played a lot of online games (other than mmo) and there's always a core of 24/7 players that take the game for real. Best avoid those if you have not the same mindset.
Edited by Hèjira on 09/02/2013 19:38 GMT
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88 Pandaren Monk
1035
Great read.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10420
I'm by no means a raider of skill.
I'm not even a raider.
I'm not a PvPer, I'm not an awesome pet battler.
Even my roleplay skills are subpar, good sirs and madams.

But what I am, what I pride myself on always being. Is someone who will help the newbies. Even the most hardcore of players was one once, and they need to remember that. Every player in this game has a humble beginning; some find a niche they fit and excel in, be it anything the game has to offer, but many will struggle.

I'm experienced enough to help with the basics, but I wish people who sit there on their heroic gear, would hop off their high horse for a second and just remember what it was like. Yes, perhaps to you LFR is the worse thing to happen to the world since Justin Bieber, but to us, the basic masses, its a way to experience more of the game. No, many of us will never top the meters, even on Elegon we will suck. But, give them a hand.

A good deed can be its own reward.

I give my customary farewell; death to all dwarves.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
10110
I understand the guy, he wants to have some fun, everyone does that's why we play games after all

but on the other hand, he wanted to join a raid, that mean playing the game with 9 other people, people just like this warrior, people with limited time, people who just want to have some fun in WoW doing a raid

in such a setting you should show that you have done at least the bare basic research about your class (reforging, gemming, which stats to use etc) he lives in a first world country and has access to the internet, which means this information is available to him completely for free from multiple sources

yet he didn't do it, by that he is jeopardizing the success of the whole group, it's not just him that is going to be punished for his performance

overall I don't think his fun is worth anything more than the fun of the other 9 people in his raid

but I do agree that people should be more willing to help new players instead of just ignoring them when someone asks a question in trade chat or doing something even worse
Edited by Enosya on 09/02/2013 21:06 GMT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
3765

in such a setting you should show that you have done at least the bare basic research about your class (reforging, gemming, which stats to use etc) he lives in a first world country and has access to the internet, which means this information is available to him completely for free from multiple sources

yet he didn't do it, by that he is jeopardizing the success of the whole group, it's not just him that is going to be punished for his performance

Typical elitis answer. Where you think a new tank learns his abilities? In the low level dungeons that are filled with useless heirloom griefers that can solo the instance, but prefer to group to laugh at the starters.

Make all the <80 dungeons standard gear. Ok superhero?
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90 Night Elf Mage
10190
This is happening right now, on your server.

Few of the newcomers trying to break in are so persistent. Most just go away discouraged.

Some of them come here to these forums. Mostly, they get no useful help.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
10580
in such a setting you should show that you have done at least the bare basic research about your class (reforging, gemming, which stats to use etc) he lives in a first world country and has access to the internet, which means this information is available to him completely for free from multiple sources

yet he didn't do it, by that he is jeopardizing the success of the whole group, it's not just him that is going to be punished for his performance

overall I don't think his fun is worth anything more than the fun of the other 9 people in his raid


And exactly here is the problem with the overall current state of the community. Learning by doing is obviously a cardinal sin.

When a game, especially such a complex one as WoW (complex in the sense of multiple classes, roles, abilities - and when to utilize them) is new to someone, getting advice from other players is *the* best way to learn. A wall of text on a forum doesn't help much when even the context is brand new.

That's the way I learned as a complete and utter newbie back when I started and by the help of my online-friends I got pretty decent at the game. Same did I with others for situations/roles I felt comfortable with.
The LFD is fine and all that, but for someone not having seen a dungeon before it is a pure... and utter... nightmare, much due to the hostile community that seem to have infested World of Warcraft in it's later years.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
3765
in such a setting you should show that you have done at least the bare basic research about your class (reforging, gemming, which stats to use etc) he lives in a first world country and has access to the internet, which means this information is available to him completely for free from multiple sources

yet he didn't do it, by that he is jeopardizing the success of the whole group, it's not just him that is going to be punished for his performance

overall I don't think his fun is worth anything more than the fun of the other 9 people in his raid


And exactly here is the problem with the overall current state of the community. Learning by doing is obviously a cardinal sin.

When a game, especially such a complex one as WoW (complex in the sense of multiple classes, roles, abilities - and when to utilize them) is new to someone, getting advice from other players is *the* best way to learn. A wall of text on a forum doesn't help much when even the context is brand new.

That's the way I learned as a complete and utter newbie back when I started and by the help of my online-friends I got pretty decent at the game. Same did I with others for situations/roles I felt comfortable with.
The LFD is fine and all that, but for someone not having seen a dungeon before it is a pure... and utter... nightmare, much due to the hostile community that seem to have infested World of Warcraft in it's later years.

Yes so get rid of the heirlooms an every other blue gear in <80 dungeons and battlegrounds.

I like it but the elitist gankers will object, and they allways win.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
Typical elitis answer. Where you think a new tank learns his abilities? In the low level dungeons that are filled with useless heirloom griefers that can solo the instance, but prefer to group to laugh at the starters.

Make all the <80 dungeons standard gear. Ok superhero?


Typical subjective bleeding heart answer. Like it or not, you do have a responsibility towards the people you group with. Some people only have time for 1 or maybe 2 raids a week (or even less), and expecting them to sacrifice their free time to help someone who hasn't done basic research before putting themselves in a situation that requires it, is no better than expecting everyone to do everything right.
Now, you might like to think that I'm just an elitist prick, and can't empathize with newbies, but you'd be wrong. I'm simply not blind to how things work.

I'll even tell you why I rarely bother helping out newbies anymore. It's because I spent almost 4 years doing it. (incoming rant)
When I first started playing, I also started reading up on things. My class, dungeon guides, grinding guides, gearing, etc.. We started up a guild and invited new players. I often trained them and gave them tips in everything from tanking to kiting, because I like helping people understand or enjoy things more. I spent countless hours doing low lvl dungeons to gear them. I trained at least 20 different hunters on my first realm, and at least half ended up as end game raiders. I even trained a whole family (mother, father, son and 2 daughters), and so on and so on...
And apart from a very small number, they all left for bigger guilds with better progression. I didn't raid in Vanilla because everyone I trained, geared and coached for raiding left when they had good enough gear, while I tried to keep the guild alive.
But I still kept helping newbies. I even spent a lot of time on the newbie forums, giving advice as best I could. Even when I was raiding 5 days a week in TBC, I spent hours helping newbies. In the end I was more online than off, because everyone just kept coming back for more help. "Ask Kergosh! He'll help you!". I spent days grinding rep items for others, for christ's sake. And on top of that, most of my spare time when I wasn't playing was spent helping people with everything to mental problems to house painting irl.
I realized I suddenly had I job I was paying to do, and quit right before WotLK.
I started playing again a month or two after WotLK hit, determined to be a little more selfish. But my good nature got the best of me and I started helping players I saw where struggling. Or to be more precise, I offered to help and was told to f*** off (often accompanied by some interesting theories about my heritage and sexual preferences) quite a lot. When someone did take my offer, it was a simple matter of "wham bam, thank you, sailor", with little or no appreciation.
I got sick of the server and transferred to DB, where I finally met a well established, friendly and mutually helpful guild (Dwarven Rifle Squad <3). And I'm still helpful, but I cba to try and save every newbie who cba to spend an hour or two reading up on even the basics of their class. I help when I feel like it, not whenever someone starts crying for help. It doesn't make a bad person or elitist, it just means I want to enjoy the game myself.

As for the outcast warrior, he seems like a special case, and I would have gladly taken the time to help him with the basics. I have a soft spot for outcasts and he seems like a genuinely nice guy.

And yeah, people in general seem less helpful, but think of how many years have passed. Compared to how many were completely new to online gaming (and especially rpg's) when WoW came out, almost every new player has some previous experience that lets them adapt quicker. Back then it was a bunch of newbs helping other newbs, with the occasional pro pitching in. Now it's people who have played for years, kids who literally grew up with online gaming, and a few newbs trying to fit into one of them.

But the answer is quite simple: If you're completely new or you're having trouble, take the time to read up a bit about the basics. Try a few things out and ask around a bit. Chances are that you can find a levelling or perk guild with at least 1 helpful player. Don't jump straight into end game content expecting everyone to carry you.
If you don't know, ask.

If you're a seasoned or reasonable knowledgable player, taking a few mins to explain and answer a few questions isn't going to kill you.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
3765
Typical elitis answer. Where you think a new tank learns his abilities? In the low level dungeons that are filled with useless heirloom griefers that can solo the instance, but prefer to group to laugh at the starters.

Make all the <80 dungeons standard gear. Ok superhero?


Typical subjective bleeding heart answer. Like it or not, you do have a responsibility towards the people you group with. Some people only have time for 1 or maybe 2 raids a week (or even less), and expecting them to sacrifice their free time to help someone who hasn't done basic research before putting themselves in a situation that requires it, is no better than expecting everyone to do everything right.
...

It may sound strange, but if you read my former post, you would see I largely agree with you.

If you decide to join a raiding guild, you have to bear the consequences and it's up to you to meet the (high or low) standards of the guild.

My point is that new players (or new tanks or healers) who want to learn how to play their class have no chance in the low level dungeons that are full with undergeared mobs and overgeared lvl90 alts.
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42 Undead Mage
1590
09/02/2013 19:29Posted by Ananda
I believe you're getting your Koreas mixed up.


erm...no I do not. They showed their colors to the world especially during the jp/kr wm 2002 where they shoved middle fingers in the faces of the foreign players as they were getting out of the bus.
During WM 2006 in germany there were alot of cases of koreans rampaging hotel rooms, stealing equipment and fleeing without paying.
Koreans also like to pose as japanese in foreign countries when they know the difference can't be made out.

http://i.imgur.com/a2LGweY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sim7Mg4.jpg

yeah..
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Very touchy read indeed.

Have seen similair things as guildmaster aswell. But i couldn't leave them even tho i lost guildmembers due to it. Specialy during late vanilla and tbc.

Is the guildmentor stuff still going on? I thought they ended it by now. If they did they should bring it back again!
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