I think I'd prefer WoW of today than 'Classic'

90 Worgen Druid
8785
If i had to agree with Vanilla days being better it would be for these reasons:

    The feel of a larger world.
    No: i did not like the quests that would drag you all over the world as an infant player.
    As to the feeling: I think Blizz is doing a good job trying to bring this back by making the large areas that we get in new expansions and by placing a non-fly rule when you first set out in the new expansions. But for the most part this is again nostalgia. Why? Because when I first started playing I had never played a game like this, which made it seem far huger, and I didn't know any of the content. Now I only get a short-lived version of the feeling when a new expansion pack comes out as it does not take that long to explore the new area. To bring this feeling back one would have to play a new game or erase one's memories of WoW altogether! Vanilla WoW won't bring it back as I know that content as well...


    More dramatic day to night changes.
    This is a suggestion that has been made many times and is now finally being looked into! Yay! Sorry, but MMOs are supposed to be immersive... so WoW should not ever aim to lose such a thing!


    Realms were not as empty as they are now.
    So there was a geater feel of the players around you and there was a higher chance of pvp action whilst you were questing.
    This could have been easily fixed in 1 month's time in the way that SWtOR solved it. Do not make free transfers from overpopulated realms to lower populated realms. No one wants to move to a lower populated realm! It's madness! SWtOR made it work by making free transfers from low populated realms to higher populated realms. They filled up the higher populated realms and emptied the lower populated realms. They presented those who did this willingly with ingame rewards, and eventually forced everyone out of the lower populated realms into the higher populated ones. The result was practically no whining and only full realms, and much happier players.
    However: WoW seems to be going on a completely different, but interesting path. It seems that the idea of realm transfers being the solution has been wiped from the table, and it is now all about making it so that it does not matter in the least which realm you are on. With Real ID invites, cross-realm BGs, cross-realm LFR and dungeon groups. Just Blizz: please finish the job by making the Auction House cross-realm and perhaps making guilds cross-realm. If you can do that then there really will be no disadvantage to being on a low populated realm, in fact you will create a small advantage towards being on a low populated realm when it comes to farming. This, however, will be short lived as people will be more willing to spread out across the realms as it will really not matter which realm you are on. Problem solved! Very interesting and well done!
Edited by Lythyllipsus on 12/02/2013 15:59 GMT
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85 Human Rogue
1580
The pvp are !@#$ing %^-*.
!@#$ WARRIORS
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45 Draenei Mage
7635
Here's a post from few months ago by I don't remember who, it got locked but I've saved it because it sums up everyhing pretty nicely. Take your time to read it...

This is the same company that introduced the LFG tool so people could play single-player and not have to worry about socialising with other people on their realm in order to secure a dungeon group. A tool that teleported the player from anywhere in Azeroth right to the dungeon entrance because travelling was so inconvenient. A tool that placed you with random people from random realms because hey - who needs social contacts?!

This is the same company that felt raiding tiers were an unnecessary grind and so decided to implement a progression system that revolved around farming the same 5 man dungeons throughout an entire expansion - all of which could be safely done from within the comfort of your capital city. The best bit? You didn't even need to know anyone since you could sign up solo!

But..this meant the world was empty and barren, with only farmers, questers and some old fashion players really only bothering to venture out. So Blizzard's response? Why, remove every single group quest in the game of course! Why have these silly group quests which forced people to socialise and team up, when the world was empty anyway. All it did was slow people down. Taking steps to put people back in Azeroth would have meant doing a complete U turn on the direction of the game!

Of course this all created a wonderful in-game culture where basically everybody ignored everyone and just got on with "their own thing". Justice points? Queue. Honor points? Queue. Need to level? Queue. Sure its better with friends and a nice guild - if you still had any due to WoW's earlier legacy. But otherwise, you don't need any to progress.

Except of course raiding..still the last shining bastion of coordinated group play. Still a social group activity that would require travelling to an instance. That was until LFR of course. Now if you can't find a raiding group that suits your needs all you need to do is..that's right, queue. All from the safety of your local capital city!

So after all these years, and all these wonderful tools that have really enhanced and improved the realm communities and brought us all together (note the sarcasm, please), Blizzard has suddenly realised that there is no one in Azeroth anymore. /GASP. Despite all the intelligent and insightful posts that were ignored over the years, they still have no idea how all of this occurred! I mean, this never happened in Vanilla, or TBC, or early Wrath..people LOVED the world then. What the hell happened?!

So since X-realm dungeons and raids have been such a great and shining example of how anonymous players - free of the ties of close knit and self-policing communities - play so nicely together and are so incredibly polite, lets just implement that entire experience into the WHOLE OF AZEROTH. Deathwing eat your heart out - you thought you could sunder the world? Just look what Blizzard has achieved!

Not only does crossing a zone boundary now give you 3 seconds of screen freeze/loading blurb as the servers try to figure out what the hell you are trying to do, but like a beautiful mirage, you can expect that nice rare spawn you glanced at from across the zone boundary to disappear just as you approach it! Remember what first attracted you to the World of Warcraft? That, oh what did they call it..."persistent online world", free of loading screens between zones. Well say good bye to that and say hello to a wonderfully fragmented and delightfully apartheid play experience!

So brace yourselves to interact with random strangers from other realms, whose only purpose for exploring the modern world of warcraft is to compete with you as you try to farm nodes or rares, complete those oh so challenging non-group quests (helpfully nerfed to ensure you wouldn't want to work together), or gank you and generally try to ruin your day.

Confused at the purpose of CRZ? Spare a thought for poor Blizzard, who rather obviously have little clue either.
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90 Undead Mage
5185
There wasn't any achievs in vanilla... Also, usually, the people who say the community is bad are players with bad attitudes anyway, they claim to have been in vanilla, yet these are often the people who make pugs so unenjoyable now.
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90 Night Elf Priest
11430
Its a MIRACLE !!!, a blue posting on a EU forum thread, ITS A MIRACLE I TELL YOU.

oh, no, my bad, thread praising blizzard, nothing to see here, move along.
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90 Orc Warlock
16780
At the risk of feeling old, I'll throw in the 2 cents of an early vanilla raider and content player up to now.

Just like everything you'll find in life, you'll often find yourself remembering the good times.
Brutal raid dungeons with absurd respawn timers (early scholo/strat), eternal zergs between Tarren Mill and Southshore, the first pull (quickly followed by a wipe) in Molten Core and how proud I felt when we got our very first server first kill and the 1-2 day queue to join Alterac Valley, followed by a 12-24 hour tug of war are things that immediately come to mind when I think back of that time.

Those were great and rewarding and I fondly think back of them.
But I also remember the endless hours of farming for black lotusses, scavenging Felwood for wipper root tubers and dragons breaths, losing your rallying cry, warchiefs blessing, songflower and zg buff on the first abomination in Naxx 40 just because a melee stood too close to the ranged and chained the cleave on you as you were making your way to Flaskwork the guild killer.
I hated the 3-4 hours of grinding just so you could come properly prepared to a raid. I loathed spending ages finding a suitable group to do a simple dungeon with. I despised the long trips to get to the raid dungeons and I'm still disgusted thinking back of the number of runs I had to do in Scholomance, Stratholme and UBRS to get my dreadmist set.

Yes the game forced you to be more social, things were more challenging and you actually had to go about doing and figuring stuff out yourself instead of finding it pre-calculated and worked out in or outside the game. Think back of it fondly if you wish, but personally when I look at all the bad perks I mentioned, there's nearly none left. (no more buff stacking, improved consumable gathering, LFG, LFR, guildfinder, portals and teleports, guild perks, charms. There's really too much to mention)

So far Blizzard has been listening to everyone's valid complaints. They've time and time again come forth to provide solutions to existing problems and optimized things that felt sluggish or cumbersome. In a lot of cases these weren't even their responsiblity to fix, yet they did just for us. They keep optimising, improving and fixing the game for us as well as provide new content to boot. I for one am very grateful for this.

I stopped reading the forums a few years ago when all I could find here were endless whines of players which feel it's their right to demand this fix for a problem they encountered or this feature that they feel would help to be implemented. The attitude of the current playerbase saddens me and fills me with replacement shame when I aimagine the poor CM and GM's which are subjected to them every day.
On several occasions I found myself writing a 10-20 page worked out suggestion on something I'd like to see implemented or changed, yet I never post them. The thought of being associated with the rest on the forums and having my of course fantastic idea drowned in whines and unrelated complaints is too much to make me post them.
Fortunately, time and time again Blizzard reads my mind (and all the other people's posts) and goes ahead to fix my problem or implement my idea without me needing to do anything. And all I need to do is keep playing. It's the best service I can get.

So to sum it up.
Vanilla was great in it's own way.
The Burning Crusade was great in it's own way.
Wrath of the Lich King was great in it's own way.
Cataclysm was great in it's own way.
I'll let you guess what I think of Mist of Pandaria.

All of you which played or will play WoW for a long period of time will think back fondly of some period. Cherish that thought and try to find new moments like that in the current expansion. And now please feel stupid for reading this entire post while you could have spent your time so much better, namely playing the game!

You've turned me into a fanboy Blizzard. Please keep me that way by keeping up the good work!
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
13170
Here's a post from few months ago by I don't remember who, it got locked but I've saved it because it sums up everyhing pretty nicely. Take your time to read it...

This is the same company that introduced the LFG tool so people could play single-player and not have to worry about socialising with other people on their realm in order to secure a dungeon group. A tool that teleported the player from anywhere in Azeroth right to the dungeon entrance because travelling was so inconvenient. A tool that placed you with random people from random realms because hey - who needs social contacts?!

This is the same company that felt raiding tiers were an unnecessary grind and so decided to implement a progression system that revolved around farming the same 5 man dungeons throughout an entire expansion - all of which could be safely done from within the comfort of your capital city. The best bit? You didn't even need to know anyone since you could sign up solo!

But..this meant the world was empty and barren, with only farmers, questers and some old fashion players really only bothering to venture out. So Blizzard's response? Why, remove every single group quest in the game of course! Why have these silly group quests which forced people to socialise and team up, when the world was empty anyway. All it did was slow people down. Taking steps to put people back in Azeroth would have meant doing a complete U turn on the direction of the game!

Of course this all created a wonderful in-game culture where basically everybody ignored everyone and just got on with "their own thing". Justice points? Queue. Honor points? Queue. Need to level? Queue. Sure its better with friends and a nice guild - if you still had any due to WoW's earlier legacy. But otherwise, you don't need any to progress.

Except of course raiding..still the last shining bastion of coordinated group play. Still a social group activity that would require travelling to an instance. That was until LFR of course. Now if you can't find a raiding group that suits your needs all you need to do is..that's right, queue. All from the safety of your local capital city!

So after all these years, and all these wonderful tools that have really enhanced and improved the realm communities and brought us all together (note the sarcasm, please), Blizzard has suddenly realised that there is no one in Azeroth anymore. /GASP. Despite all the intelligent and insightful posts that were ignored over the years, they still have no idea how all of this occurred! I mean, this never happened in Vanilla, or TBC, or early Wrath..people LOVED the world then. What the hell happened?!

So since X-realm dungeons and raids have been such a great and shining example of how anonymous players - free of the ties of close knit and self-policing communities - play so nicely together and are so incredibly polite, lets just implement that entire experience into the WHOLE OF AZEROTH. Deathwing eat your heart out - you thought you could sunder the world? Just look what Blizzard has achieved!

Not only does crossing a zone boundary now give you 3 seconds of screen freeze/loading blurb as the servers try to figure out what the hell you are trying to do, but like a beautiful mirage, you can expect that nice rare spawn you glanced at from across the zone boundary to disappear just as you approach it! Remember what first attracted you to the World of Warcraft? That, oh what did they call it..."persistent online world", free of loading screens between zones. Well say good bye to that and say hello to a wonderfully fragmented and delightfully apartheid play experience!

So brace yourselves to interact with random strangers from other realms, whose only purpose for exploring the modern world of warcraft is to compete with you as you try to farm nodes or rares, complete those oh so challenging non-group quests (helpfully nerfed to ensure you wouldn't want to work together), or gank you and generally try to ruin your day.

Confused at the purpose of CRZ? Spare a thought for poor Blizzard, who rather obviously have little clue either.


This is by far one of the best posts I have ever seen on this board and I believe it sums up pretty much all of my own concerns in a very mature and direct manner. I apologise in advance for quoting what is a rather lengthy post, but I firmly believe that it needs to be seen.
Edited by Aetharius on 12/02/2013 18:08 GMT
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1 Human Warrior
0
12/02/2013 16:51Posted by Aminthia
Here's a post from few months ago by I don't remember who, it got locked but I've saved it because it sums up everyhing pretty nicely. Take your time to read it...


Yes, it does a good job of summing up every bad generalistic argument into one long whine.
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90 Tauren Druid
13470
IMO it really depends on the class you were playing back then. I have been playing as a druid for 6 years now (more or less one spec per tier :p) although I have never played Vanilla. Judging by what fellow players told me about this era, I really don't think I'd miss even if I had been playing at the time.

Non-healing druids were pretty much non-existent in PVE (which was the case for a lot of specs), and even RDruids were used only as an Innervation-bot for Priests. Now I do have to admit the dungeons were beautiful and the boss fights looked really cool, but I'd have been bored to death by the game before I could enjoy half the content.

And the same goes about BC where Feral and Balance DPS was underwhelming to say the least while many classes had only 1 / 2 buttons to mash to top the charts (Howdy warlocks spamming SB !).

I think people tend to remember dungeons and raids (which had a great design and some of the greatest bosses the game has offered so far like Kael'Thas, Vashj and RoS) and forget all the rest, especially class gameplay. I was playing feral tank / offspec dps at the time and both specs were OK in this respect, but I can't say I'd have been too excited over spamming SF as a Moonkin or SB as a Lock :x
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90 Undead Mage
1940

In fact, I remember some guilds became "feeders" of the most progressed guilds on the realm, so these guys could never really climb through the ranks because they kept losing raiders to guilds with more progress.


Same thing is still happening today fyi, people get more gear and start playing better as they get more experience, so they move up to better guilds.

To put it in a harsh way, alot of people think like this "Wow some of these guys play like retards, they are holding me back from progressing, I'll check for some better guilds"



We're all part of the same community. If anything, I'd say now we have the luxury of deciding when and how we want to participate with strangers. Before it was your only way of accessing to certain content (5-man PuGs or more progressed raiding guilds) and as with everything else in life, at times you'd have wonderful experiences and at times absolutely miserable ones.

So, was that better than being able to stick with your friends and try to go as far as possible? It's really up to each individual. Some people love to make new friends, some would rather stick to their circles.


The community wasn't really better. Perhaps what happened was that the interaction was more limited? Through the Finder tools you can literally encounter hundreds of players every single day, it's hard to not come across a rotten apple every so often. Back then we didn't even have a Raid Finder, so most experiences with large groups were on PVP, and I'm fairly sure we all have memories of how heated the BG chat would be at times, as well as players from the opposite faction shouting text that was offensive for your team.
The bad apples were already there, but our exposure as individuals... I'd wager it was much smaller, since even arranging a 5-man group (a pure PuG, that is) was a rather lengthy process.




Yes, we can now encounter 100 people per day, People who will most likely never see again, and who bearly bother to say "Hi".

You used to play with the same people on your realm, meaning you came across the same people, and the same bad apples, which you could simply put on ignore, and usually got a bad rep on the realm. You never had to group with them again. The good players you would group up again and start socializing with. I've been using LFD since wrath (since there is no incentive to manually make a group, you even get rewarded from doing LFD by valor, Luck Of The draw buff,...) and I have yet to meet a guy who I met good enough in 15 minutes to add to my real-id and become friends with.

Also, you could meet new people without LFD and expend your connections on the realm, I would say more so then now. The fact that you complain about people shouting bad words at the opposite faction, it's something that's created by the game and is normal for human nature (they support something that you 'hate') and no1 is complaining about it, so I don't see why you adress it as a problem.

12/02/2013 02:27Posted by Barbarossá
When questing you had to read the quest and understand where the mobs are or what to do for it, now you get the quest and look at map go where the circle is, so stupid, and nobody quests in the old zones anymore the world is empty, the world is dead.And there are many other things but ill stop here.



As far as I remember, many players would read the quest name, go to Thottbot, type the name of the quest, note the coordinates and then, with their addon, and then go there and get it done. Leveling guides from 1-60 were also popular because many players felt lost on their way to max level without them. You might feel that was epic, but it was truly confusing for the people that really didn't know where to go next or how to get to maximum level.


It's called exploring the game, for some reason, blizzard thinks it needs to hold our hands by giving us everything. It was up to the players to either ask in general chat (mankrik's wife anyone,...) read the text, or go to thottbot '(which I can't recall doing for EVERY quest). There is a fine line between making the game more convenient and dumbing it down, I think blizzard croosed this line alot without admitting or not seeing it themself

I can see the point in LFD for leveling dungeons, as otherwise low level dungeons would be ineffective and just be skipped, but do we really need an LFD for "Heroic" Dungeons and raiding? I don't see the point, as I think it's part of an MMO to make groups and socialize with people, not just press a qeue button and hope for the best. And please don't start about making friends in LFR or LFD, I'd like to see actuall number of players making actual friends with these tools. And from my expericne and observing of the community, I'm 99% sure that most players haven't made any friends with LFD or LFR.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but basically The game now is just this
1)ACCEPT QUEST
2) OPEN MAP
3) COMPLETE QUEST BY GOING TO THE NUMERS ON YOUR MAP
4) EXPERIENCE ALL MAJOR PVE CONTENT IN LESS THEN A DAY BY PRESSING QEUE (FEEL FREE TO AFK IN LFR)
5) THE PEOPLE YOU MET IN CROSSREALM ZONES, DUNGEONS, RAIDS, SCENARIOS, PVP YOU'LL MOST LIKELY NEVER SEE AGAIN

PS: Respect for you draztal, you seem to be the only EU blue that actually posts relevant stuff. But I do dissagree with your (Blizzard's) standpoints.
Edited by Hardtoplay on 12/02/2013 18:58 GMT
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Its a MIRACLE !!!, a blue posting on a EU forum thread, ITS A MIRACLE I TELL YOU.

oh, no, my bad, thread praising blizzard, nothing to see here, move along.


You should check other threads more often, because we try to be as active as possible on the forums, and not just on the threads that praise Blizzard :)
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90 Human Paladin
15205
12/02/2013 18:41Posted by Hardtoplay
It's called explorting the game, for some reason, blizzard thinks it needs to hold our hands by giving us everything. It was up to the players to either ask in general chat (mankrik's wife anyone,...) read the text, or go to thottbot '(which I can't recall doing for EVERY quest). There is a fine line between making the game more convenient and dumbing it down, I think blizzard croosed this line alot without admitting or not seeing it themself


Honestly the quests back then were far to vague and looking it up on Thotbot was not a fun activity.

Don't forget that it was the players who first used quest tracking addons before Blizzard implemented it in game.
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90 Undead Mage
1940
12/02/2013 18:49Posted by Nobbel
It's called explorting the game, for some reason, blizzard thinks it needs to hold our hands by giving us everything. It was up to the players to either ask in general chat (mankrik's wife anyone,...) read the text, or go to thottbot '(which I can't recall doing for EVERY quest). There is a fine line between making the game more convenient and dumbing it down, I think blizzard croosed this line alot without admitting or not seeing it themself


Honestly the quests back then were far to vague and looking it up on Thotbot was not a fun activity.

Don't forget that it was the players who first used quest tracking addons before Blizzard implemented it in game.


I doubt you knew what addons were when you first started. I didn't know what they were after a couple of months of playing for example
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Playing the devil's advocate here, but basically The game now is just this
1)ACCEPT QUEST
2) OPEN MAP
3) COMPLETE QUEST BY GOING TO THE NUMERS ON YOUR MAP
4) VIEW ALL MAJOR PVE CONTENT IN LESS THEN A DAY BY PRESSING QEUE (FEEL FREE TO AFK IN LFR)
5) THE PEOPLE YOU MET IN CROSSREALM ZONES, DUNGEONS, RAIDS, SCENARIOS, PVP YOU'LL MOST LIKELY NEVER SEE AGAIN



Back then it was something like this...
1) Accept quest
2) Minimize WoW, check in Thottbot (for example) the quest(s?)
3) Complete quest going to the noted coordinates.
4) Minimize WoW, go to youtube, view all major PVE content in a couple hours by pressing "play" (Feel free to kick back and relax)

Point 5 doesn't really apply here because we didn't have Cross-realm zones, dungeons, raids, scenarios back then, but it did apply on PVP however.

Looking back at the other 4 points. We could argue the first three now have reduced hassle. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather take part on viewing all major PVE content and achieve it by myself (no matter if its on LFR, Normal or Heroic) than see some random pixel heroes go do it while I'm left trying to figure out what's going on.
Edited by Draztal on 12/02/2013 18:56 GMT
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90 Undead Mage
1940
Playing the devil's advocate here, but basically The game now is just this
1)ACCEPT QUEST
2) OPEN MAP
3) COMPLETE QUEST BY GOING TO THE NUMERS ON YOUR MAP
4) VIEW ALL MAJOR PVE CONTENT IN LESS THEN A DAY BY PRESSING QEUE (FEEL FREE TO AFK IN LFR)
5) THE PEOPLE YOU MET IN CROSSREALM ZONES, DUNGEONS, RAIDS, SCENARIOS, PVP YOU'LL MOST LIKELY NEVER SEE AGAIN



Back then it was something like this...
1) Accept quest
2) Minimize WoW, check in Thottbot (for example) quest
3) Complete quest going to the noted coordinates.
4) Minimize WoW, go to youtube, view all major PVE content in a couple hours by pressing "play" (Feel free to kick back and relax)

Point 5 doesn't really apply here because we didn't have Cross-realm zones, dungeons, raids, scenarios back then, but it did apply on PVP however.

Looking back at the other 4 points. We could argue the first three now have reduced hassle. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather take part on viewing all major PVE content and achieve it by myself (no matter if its on LFR, Normal or Heroic) than see some random pixel heroes go do it while I'm left trying to figure out what's going on.


Misworded myself there, I'll edit after this reply, but I do mean experiencing the content. I do agree with you that Experiencing the content is better then watching a video on youtube.

That doesn't mean I think that what you guys are doing now (pushing everyone in 1 tier) is right. "Back in the day" you had different guilds raiding different tiers, guilds were still raiding Kara and gruul's at the release of sunwell for example, which was fine. Now it's almost a standard that your guild raids current tier.
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90 Undead Priest
0

Back then it was something like this...
1) Accept quest
2) Minimize WoW, check in Thottbot (for example) quest
3) Complete quest going to the noted coordinates.
4) Minimize WoW, go to youtube, view all major PVE content in a couple hours by pressing "play" (Feel free to kick back and relax)


Well, maybe for the 5% who did naxx on classic....

I remembered, that i actually read the Quest Journal for additional Hints if the shortversion didn't suffice. If I still had Problems I asked FRIENDS and GUILDMATES for further information or even help.

And exactly this was what made Classic so much better. Your Realm was your World. Every Realm had an own personality with own Heroes you knew and scumbags you ganked. It felt all personal. I had more Joy killing Noelle (I even remember the name of kinda 6 years ago) and her female guildmates (well they only had female char's in their guild, RL guys though) in a warsong, than in killing hundred of hundreds no name's without personality. they feel like mobs or npc's. It's no joy fighting them, since hunter's or rogues do all the same nowadays.

I even remember Dreadnought being the one Opening Ahn Qiraj on our Realm. A damn Paladin got the Honor.

And I remember winning against better geared PVP players who got Rank 13 or 14. I only got to 11 but since Health pool's were smaller a good start or a good counter decided the match (i actually liked the "three-shotting", made healers thread and managable at the same time). And since gear wasn't splitt between pvp and pve i could use some of my pve gear to balance against high rank pvp players.
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
I have to deeply disagree.
Can you tell me why i find the game boring now and why i'm quitting wow now and not a year ago? Except for the fact that i'll start playing Elder Scrolls Online instead which will spank wow to death and be the new #1 MMORPG...
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12/02/2013 19:28Posted by Kamos
And I remember winning against better geared PVP players who got Rank 13 or 14. I only got to 11 but since Health pool's were smaller a good start or a good counter decided the match (i actually liked the "three-shotting", made healers thread and managable at the same time). And since gear wasn't splitt between pvp and pve i could use some of my pve gear to balance against high rank pvp players.


Had you been a shadow priest?

Shadow priests were op in classic.
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90 Undead Rogue
12630
12/02/2013 18:45Posted by Draztal
You should check other threads more often, because we try to be as active as possible on the forums, and not just on the threads that praise Blizzard :)
Sight........ 2 years of threads about 25-man Still Nothing. ^^
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90 Dwarf Shaman
6085
Sight........ 2 years of threads about 25-man Still Nothing. ^^
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