I think I'd prefer WoW of today than 'Classic'

90 Tauren Paladin
7580
11/02/2013 17:42Posted by Bladewhizzle
Still, everybody has their own opinion :)


That's the thing, everything is subjective. P:

But I just had a thought, think for a moment now; Classic was EIGHT YEARS ago.

Overt he course of eight years, people who were kids would have probably gone to Uni or got a job so they had less time to spend grinding. People who are adults were either dealing with uni, a career or a new family by this point. Perhaps Blizzard realise this, as people grow older they generally have less free time. Which kind of makes sense if you think about it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
15625
+1 for this topic. OP is right.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
Raiding


Raiding in Vanilla was easy, only people were not used it to. For most classes it was performing dumb 1-2 button spam and watch 1-2 boss abilities. Only hard factor was that 40 people = 40 potentional fails and laggy servers.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
PvP


PvP in Vanilla was big joke, with dominating Rogues killing people in stunlocks and famous PoM Pyros from Mages. Sure some classes has still uncontrollable burst but at least it seems Blizzard trying to fix it or do something about that.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
Gold


Earning golds was just designed as total time sink in Vanilla. If somebody got epic mount it didnt mean he was skilled.
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13 Worgen Priest
8625
That's the thing, everything is subjective. P:

But I just had a thought, think for a moment now; Classic was EIGHT YEARS ago.

Overt he course of eight years, people who were kids would have probably gone to Uni or got a job so they had less time to spend grinding. People who are adults were either dealing with uni, a career or a new family by this point. Perhaps Blizzard realise this, as people grow older they generally have less free time. Which kind of makes sense if you think about it.


Sorry but you are justifying now.

The only reason for changing their methods is because they already have a base of active subscribers and they want to reach out to new subscribers. While the people who are already playing the game may leave if they take out elements that they like (such as grind, difficulty, variety), it will also attract new players who were put off by such elements.

Gaming used to be a niche market. Now it is a big casual market. As such Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda etc etc have all done the same and "dumbed down" their expansions to appeal to the bigger market and make more money.

To say they are catering to old players who may not have much time now is naive. Companies bottom line is money. If these changes were not profitable, they wouldn't have happened.
Edited by Melisandre on 11/02/2013 17:56 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
17425
11/02/2013 17:44Posted by Vickii
Tbh why though?


Answer can be found in the vid I posted above, game is hardly any time consuming now.

It doesn't matter if you don't get to see an end boss, it tells you hey I need to put some effort into this game if I want to do it, and before I get to see the end boss I have to experience the other fights as well.

If you don't have enough time well that is a different thing, but allow people that have or find time and put effort to feel awarded for it, don't just let everyone who can press Join LFR see and defeat the boss.

That's what in my opinion new WoW will never have and why old way of raiding will always be better than the current one, it simply does not feel rewarding enough for people that want to put effort and this has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia because it's a fact, whoever raided whoever spent hours grinding/gearing after finishing what they started (eg Illidan) they could say I feel proud of myself and get a sense of accomplishment something people today will NEVER feel.

/peace
Edited by Lex on 11/02/2013 17:58 GMT
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90 Human Priest
0
Tbh why though?


Answer can be found in the vid I posted above, game is hardly any time consuming now.

It doesn't matter if you don't get to see an end boss, it tells you hey I need to put some effort into this game if I want to do it, and before I get to see the end boss I have to experience the other fights as well.

If you don't have enough time well that is a different thing, but allow people that have or find time and put effort to feel awarded for it, don't just let everyone who can press Join LFR see and defeat the boss.

That's what in my opinion old WoW will always be better than the current one(in raiding aspect), it simply does not feel rewarding enough for people that want to put effort and this has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia because it's a fact, whoever raided whoever spent hours grinding/gearing after finishing what they started (eg Illidan) they could say I feel proud of myself and get a sense of accomplishment something people today will NEVER feel.


Putting effort into the game, and raiding are two completely different things. I know people who put more time and effort into TBC than any other players I knew, and never went further than Karazhan and Gruul.

And raiding has NEVER been difficult or required any more than "pressing buttons". Just time consuming and dependent on others. As I said, in Vanilla raiding was a very niche thing. It wasn't until these changes that people actually started raiding for the most part.

You are just wanting to be a special snowflake. The game has to have an accessible storyline objective for everyone to be able to "complete" whether they are PVPers or dungeon runners. Personally I think putting end game bosses in raids is a stupid thing to do in the first place seeing as 80% of the content in WoW is quests.

Hard modes are fine, and thats where you belong if you are oh so great. But easy modes in every other game still provide the end boss, and so does wow, rightfully.
Edited by Vickii on 11/02/2013 18:01 GMT
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90 Tauren Paladin
7580
That's the thing, everything is subjective. P:

But I just had a thought, think for a moment now; Classic was EIGHT YEARS ago.

Overt he course of eight years, people who were kids would have probably gone to Uni or got a job so they had less time to spend grinding. People who are adults were either dealing with uni, a career or a new family by this point. Perhaps Blizzard realise this, as people grow older they generally have less free time. Which kind of makes sense if you think about it.


Sorry but you are justifying now.

The only reason for changing their methods is because they already have a base of active subscribers and they want to reach out to new subscribers. While the people who are already playing the game may leave if they take out elements that they like (such as grind, difficulty, variety), it will also attract new players who were put off by such elements.

Gaming used to be a niche market. Now it is a big casual market. As such Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda etc etc have all done the same and "dumbed down" their expansions to appeal to the bigger market and make more money.

To say they are catering to old players who may not have much time now is naive. Companies bottom line is money. If these changes were not profitable, they wouldn't have happened.


It may be a contributing factor at the very least, and well, they ARE a company after all. One that needs to be able to pay for all the servers, staff and so on. And for a company as big as Blizzard it can't come cheap. /shrug In any case, I've said all I can on this matter.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17425
11/02/2013 17:59Posted by Vickii
You are just wanting to be a special snowflake.


I am really not raiding since week 1 of DS patch, it took us few hours to clear ds normal.. 3 weeks later guild went to a tbc private realm.

But special snowflake syndrome is one of the many reasons why people just move away, why should we bother to put effort, farm gear, enchants, spend hours leveling alts to be competitive when someone else queues for LFR and does basically what you did kills an end boss.

This is a bad thing because things need to have a limit to who are they available.

You may agree you may disagree this is how I see it and on that note I said all I had about it, have a nice evening :)
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
So OP never played in classic wow?

.....
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90 Human Priest
0
11/02/2013 18:10Posted by Lex
This is a bad thing because things need to have a limit to who are they available.


Again why? I disagree.

You killing Arthas and seeing him die in HM super 5000 (and getting the gear and title that comes with that) is not diminished by someone else killing Arthas in LFR easy mode 3000 (and getting limited rewards not as good as yours).

It doesn't actually affect you one bit what other players are doing or what rewards they get.

I play Mass Effect on the hardest setting, one of the few games I do. Why? Because I like the strategy, the insta-deaths and the quick thinking it puts into the game, that isn't there on the other settings. The fact my brother facerolls it on easy mode, because he likes being able to walk up to something and shoot it in the face, and eventually sees the same ending as I do doesn't bother me, because I've enjoyed doing it the way I want to and I'm glad I get to talk about it with him, even though he had a different experience. If he played it on my difficulty, he would have got bored half way through and given up.

The achievement in hardcore raiding is in the satisfaction you get from playing, not from the rewards you get. You get a thrill to kill unnerfed Elegon heroic, that those LFR players will never get. That should be enough reason to do it if you are that way inclined.
Edited by Vickii on 11/02/2013 18:41 GMT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
13770
My brothers played from release up until end of Firelands. They've told me everything about their experiences and NONE of them sits around wishing "vanilla" was back again.

In fact, when I ask people I know that played back then, none of them want it back, they're just happy with the game moving on and remember that NOTHING was ever perfect. First time experiences and now, nostalgia shines a light on the memories. That's it.

Anyone saying FOR A FACT that any stage of this game was the best, is a person unable to grasp the simple concept of "subjectivity". What one considers the peak of existence for this game, others didn't even bother coming back to beyond reaching max level.
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84 Dwarf Mage
11655
10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
didn't bring your fire resistance helmet to Molten Core? Guess who's gonna die first!


Raided MC for a year and never did I use any fire resistance gear.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
And unless you were 100% perfectly geared, no serious raid guild would take you.


Nonono

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
So what do we have now? An easy raid mode (LFR) that lets any average joe see what raiders see, good! In classic only about 2% could even get into Naxx.


and those that raided naxx were so awesome that newbies screenshotted them as they inspected them

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
"Gold is so easy to make" it sure is. Remember when 2g was a lot? Good times.


Yeah 2g was a lot at lvl 10. I remember I tried to make gold as best as I could when I started over on a new server and I managed to get 1.5k gold in just a few weeks just from using the AH. I logged in twice a day and checked for stuff and resold it.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
No epic PvP gear for you!


There were almost no difference between raiding gear and PvP gear because of no resi. A player in MC epics had only slightly lower stats than a player in PvP epics.

10/02/2013 18:40Posted by Ranor
So can someone PLEASE explain why people keep thinking classic was oh-so-much-better than Wrath/Cataclysm/Mists? Pretty please? I'm really not seeing it.


Vanilla wasn't much better than any of the expansions, but it certainly wasn't as bad as you think it was. Imo raiding was fun back then and it's still fun now. But people knew a lot less. Addons, keybindings, class guides, all that stuff held people back, ecause they didn't know much about it. If people back then had the tools we have now there would be a lot more players raiding Naxx, and that is also the trend on vanilla private servers these days. MC/BWL/ZG/AQ20 gets pugged easily, and most guilds have AQ40 and several Naxx bosses on farm. But back then it was a lot harder to obtain the knowledge we have now.

I had way more fun playing in WOTLK and TBC, but I also had more fun playing vanilla compared to Cataclysm and MoP.

People complain that server communities have been destroyed now that we have the dungeon and raid finder, but I don't see that. I still stick with the same bunch that I've sticked with before, and my social circle hasn't changed much (except for the people who have left the game).
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90 Gnome Monk
10985
Personally I think it's just the human condition of romanticising things that have already happened although I expect I'll be told post-haste how wrong I am and how great it was.
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Answer can be found in the vid I posted above, game is hardly any time consuming now.

It really depends on which activity are you doing. Sure, if you only do dailies, scenarios, etc, it doesn't take much time. If you want to cap your valor points, you'll have to put some time into the game, though.

If you're chasing Heroic raid kills, you'll have to devote time as well. That's the beauty of the game these days, you can devote as much time as you want (and your reward will probably be comparable to how much time you've spent).

It doesn't matter if you don't get to see an end boss, it tells you hey I need to put some effort into this game if I want to do it, and before I get to see the end boss I have to experience the other fights as well.

For some it does. It was kinda weird for some people to see Illidan on the cinematic in TBC and never get to see him while he was current content because of <insert whichever reason>.

If you don't have enough time well that is a different thing, but allow people that have or find time and put effort to feel awarded for it, don't just let everyone who can press Join LFR see and defeat the boss.

People that have time (and the will) can defeat Heroic bosses and get rewarded much more than someone seeing the content through LFR. And from time to time there're bosses that are exclusive to Heroic raiders (Algalon, Sinestra, and now Ra-den when 5.2 is released).


That's what in my opinion new WoW will never have and why old way of raiding will always be better than the current one, it simply does not feel rewarding enough for people that want to put effort and this has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia because it's a fact, whoever raided whoever spent hours grinding/gearing after finishing what they started (eg Illidan) they could say I feel proud of myself and get a sense of accomplishment something people today will NEVER feel.

It's your opinion, so you can't make it a fact. I feel as proud of my Arthas kill as I do of my TBC/Wrath/MoP kills. It's just up to you to how much importance you wish to give to those events.

For me Arthas ranks higher than the others. Why? Because I've liked the Lich King character for a really long time and I feel his story (Arthas) was interesting to me.

11/02/2013 19:03Posted by Rorcanna
Anyone saying FOR A FACT that any stage of this game was the best, is a person unable to grasp the simple concept of "subjectivity". What one considers the peak of existence for this game, others didn't even bother coming back to beyond reaching max level.


True. As much as I love those evenings in BRD with my friends, I wouldn't have the time for it today. Time changes.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10420
WoW as a game, will always change. Just as the market it serves to, will change.

I'm in the OPs boat. I made the mistake of trying to play a Ret paladin in vanilla. Dark, -dark- times.

Came back in WoTLK when all this jipe about welfare epics and the likes started rearing its ugly head. The truth be told, Blizzard still caters to some of you...-Ahem "Hardcore." gamers. Truth to be told the only thing hard about such players is their skull. Try telling them that this is a game open to all, and its rather similar to trying to pull a Fabergé egg from their grasp.

Granted, there was more reason to speak to people back then. But now, I'm quite content to stick with the friends I have made over the years and explore the world in its depth. Because someone lacks the same gameplay capabilities as you or sheer -abundance- of time, you feel they shouldn't perhaps enjoy a sense of minor accomplishment? Be it finally completing their first heroic or attaining their first piece of gear?

The major difference between now and then. Everyone has access to an epic, which is only right. No one player can claim, here or then, they deserved it more than anyone else. Back then it wasn't about effort, it was about time. Lots, and lots of time.
Edited by Corenolius on 11/02/2013 19:52 GMT
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11/02/2013 19:25Posted by Draztal
True. As much as I love those evenings in BRD with my friends, I wouldn't have the time for it today. Time changes


At the end, when i made the onyxia prequest runs with alts, i just thought

"Not this again"

But i also thought that when doing all those kara key runs.

And i also think that when doing daily quests with my 5th alt.

Every expansion got prerequisites, while it more and more became optional. I think thats a good development, as i dont have to daily quest those days, it's just an alternative.

People may chose what journey they would like to take.
Edited by Nessaya on 11/02/2013 20:01 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
11685
What I REALLY REALLY don't like happened like a month ago:

I was on my hunter, camping for a rare pet in Burning Steppes. Now, when I visit a classic area in WoW, it brings me back to when I was 32lvl on my mage in STV doing quests and meeting random horde bastards (do not mean to insult anyone here, obviously). I would defend my life and the jungle could also claim me as a trophy of a horde player, but back then, when I was discovering WoW, I remember right-clicking a horde's portrait and I only had like 2 options available or something: Focus Target and something else.

Now it's just rediculus. You can even add him as friend!! FRIEND!? THE HORDE !@#$ER WHO DARES INTRUDE ASHENVALE? When on my hunter, I saw this and I completely got turned off. I now have 6 chars at 85 which I deeply care about, and a 90 (this monk) who I made to play as a new healer. I can't get myself playing, while still subbed. I've also never stopped checking MMO-CHAMP daily. Besides having more than a month to log in (logged in again today), I really get turned off.
Edited by Baransu on 11/02/2013 20:18 GMT
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90 Tauren Paladin
7580
You quit because you can add people on the opposing faction as battletag friends? Oooookay...
Bit of an overreaction if you ask me, but each to their own.
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14 Human Warrior
6040

So can someone PLEASE explain why people keep thinking classic was oh-so-much-better than Wrath/Cataclysm/Mists? Pretty please? I'm really not seeing it.


One word: community.

The lack of LF tools meant that people had to behave properly. If they didnt they would never get groups. This results in a snowball effect where nice guys keep playing this game and asshats are left in the cold.

The community was self sufficient in a way. A good community meant a better gameplay experience for yourself.
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Actually I have to agree with you Ranor, I have been playing since Vanilla myself and almost everything you have written down is true, I never got into Naxx myself I only got into MC, BWL and An'quiraj, also I agree with the grind part, it took me for ever to get my epic mount, altough I felt a certain super heavy satisfaction for the grind it was way to overboard, to speak the truth Cata was my favorite Expansion when it comes to everything, excepts PvP which I have never been a huge fan off, so ill keep playing WoW for the forseeable future beacause I think it's worth it, I am not agreeing with everything Blizzard dose beacause that is impossible, but I am satisfied with the game after all these years seeing so many changes and cool new implements. :)
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