Normal Difficulty Learning Curve

1 Dwarf Warrior
0
Edit: To Rephrase!

The point I'm trying to make (Which has either been misunderstood or I didn't explain it properly), is not to suddenly nerf-bomb all normals. The point is in the title of the post - There is no learning curve.

For example: In MSV the first four Bosses require very little from your raid, then you get slapped with Elegon from out of nowhere with his crazy berserk timer and gear requirements (This is obviously not so much of an issue now that people can overgear the fight from LFR alone). Then you get Will of the Emperor which is a joke in comparison - That is not a very well tuned learning curve, that is: x4 Easy Bosses > x1 Huge step-up > x1 Over-easy Final Boss.

This seems even more extreme or perhaps noticeable in HoF because there is a limit to how much you can currently over-gear Garalon and yet again the first two Bosses offer little to no challenge.

The step-up is too large, the only time I feel you should experience that dramatic rise in difficulty should be for a final Boss. Example: Majordomo Staghelm > Ragnaros in Normal Firelands was a huge step up for a lot of Guilds, but he was the final boss so it was understandable. This also of course meant that even Guilds who couldn't manage Ragnaros on Normal could still gear up from all of the other Bosses before the next patch. Currently Guilds that can't overcome Garalon can only farm two Bosses in HoF and none in Terrace before 5.2 comes out.

When 5.2 comes out Guilds will not want to stay farming old content even if they aren't geared for the new content, that's just the way it is. As such a lot of Guilds will be smashing straight into Throne of Thunder with only the gear from the first couple of HoF Bosses at best.
Edited by Jonsn on 19/02/2013 19:29 GMT
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90 Troll Warrior
12935
Don't use four healers, use two instead. You need all the dps you can get on elegon.

And if you take too much damage drop the stacks.

edit: and check a video for tacts :)
Edited by Tjillin on 17/02/2013 21:25 GMT
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90 Dwarf Warrior
15170
17/02/2013 20:59Posted by Jonsn
There is too much inc Damage from Pheromones, Swipe and Crush to survive long without 4 Healers and yet with 6 DPS you can't even get him below 60% before the Berserk.


You are obviously doing something wrong.
But without any more information, we can't help you.

Honestly, Garalon is not that difficult, and I don't understand why so many people struggle against him. We killed it in 2 (maybe 3?) raid night, which is less that what we spent on Garajal, Elegon or even Mel'jarak (who is after Garalon but a lot of people find it easier.)

You can do it with 2 heals 2 tanks, 3 heals 1 tanks and probably with more exotic comp.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3605
The flaw is in the tactics. You should scrap all what you've been doing and look the fight with fresh eyes, and set whole new battleplan. Also try to find a tactic and pick up kiters based on your set up and player skill. And take a 2nd look of what each ability actually does and how it works.

I am certain the flaw here with you guys is on inncorect tactics.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
16815
We use 2 healers 4 kiters

Kites - 2 tanks and 2 range DPS - hunter / lock

I start by pulling the boss, I have a tank pick them off me at 17ish stacks, he has the othe rtank take them from him, the warlock takes from the 2nd tank and I take from teh warlock, easy.
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90 Tauren Warrior
17960
17/02/2013 20:59Posted by Jonsn
and yet with 6 DPS you can't even get him below 60% before the Berserk.


well there's your problem, replace all 6 dps of the raid with people who actually do some damage and you're golden. also you can 3man heal it no probs if the dps knows what's up.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7125
If OP isnt trying to troll people, then theres a major flaw in their tacs.
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90 Troll Warrior
12935
18/02/2013 14:08Posted by Lothuz
If OP isnt trying to troll people, then theres a major flaw in their tacs


Don't know if he's trolling, but I've seen tacts varying from 2-4 healers, 1-2 tanks, off healing, off dpsing, etc etc. It depends on what you have. From what he's telling the dps in his group are not so 'overpowered' that they can take it on with 6 dps (of which two soaking then, which takes dps away), so they should do with less healers.

Personally we didn't even make the dps with 2 healers and 1 tank, of which the healers are even switching, so we can't blame anyone else than the dps (for a change x)). 0.7% Health is the best so far. Not that we have had many tries but I can understand that if you constantly have pugs like we do then this fight might feel a little harsh. I like it, though, don't change it :).
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3605
18/02/2013 14:23Posted by Tjillin
If OP isnt trying to troll people, then theres a major flaw in their tacs


Don't know if he's trolling, but I've seen tacts varying from 2-4 healers, 1-2 tanks, off healing, off dpsing, etc etc. It depends on what you have. From what he's telling the dps in his group are not so 'overpowered' that they can take it on with 6 dps (of which two soaking then, which takes dps away), so they should do with less healers.

Personally we didn't even make the dps with 2 healers and 1 tank, of which the healers are even switching, so we can't blame anyone else than the dps (for a change x)). 0.7% Health is the best so far. Not that we have had many tries but I can understand that if you constantly have pugs like we do then this fight might feel a little harsh. I like it, though, don't change it :).


Perhaps you should optimise more the cleave damage and find proper balance between leg and body damage. I.e. we sorted it by taking some dps OFF the legs and adding to the body, so the 1 cleaving melee had always a leg to hit and when they were 2, then tanks/soakers sometimes cleaved. And on 1st look it sounds not making sense to take dps off the legs like this, but it improved kill times massively for us. But I understand this might be relative to the raid set up and particular classes.
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Patch 5.2 will reduce the damage and health of bosses on Patch 5.0 raids by 10%. And The 5.0 Raid Finders will have their droprate upped as well. Pair that with Patch 5.2's upcoming Raid Finder (which requires item level 480) and hopefully you'll have more than enough gear in a timely manner to finish whichever bosses you have still left in 5.0 and move on to the Throne of Thunder :)
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90 Draenei Shaman
15625
17/02/2013 20:59Posted by Jonsn
Then comes Garalon who is so tightly tuned it feels like pre-nerf Spine HC


What?
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90 Pandaren Hunter
16815
18/02/2013 15:43Posted by Draztal
Patch 5.2 will reduce the damage and health of bosses on Patch 5.0 raids by 10%. And The 5.0 Raid Finders will have their droprate upped as well. Pair that with Patch 5.2's upcoming Raid Finder (which requires item level 480) and hopefully you'll have more than enough gear in a timely manner to finish whichever bosses you have still left in 5.0 and move on to the Throne of Thunder :)


Unfortunately Draztal the game doesn't work like that as much as Blizzard would like it too. When 5.2 comes out, even those players that didn't get around to completing T14 raids will enter ToT and forget all about T14 raids. Granted there is not "catch up" system this time like other tiers which is good and bad ( good from a new player PoV, bad from an alt PoV). I hope this doesn't lead to normal modes gettign hit hard with nerf bats like firelands was
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3605
18/02/2013 16:06Posted by Archermit
Patch 5.2 will reduce the damage and health of bosses on Patch 5.0 raids by 10%. And The 5.0 Raid Finders will have their droprate upped as well. Pair that with Patch 5.2's upcoming Raid Finder (which requires item level 480) and hopefully you'll have more than enough gear in a timely manner to finish whichever bosses you have still left in 5.0 and move on to the Throne of Thunder :)


Unfortunately Draztal the game doesn't work like that as much as Blizzard would like it too. When 5.2 comes out, even those players that didn't get around to completing T14 raids will enter ToT and forget all about T14 raids. Granted there is not "catch up" system this time like other tiers which is good and bad ( good from a new player PoV, bad from an alt PoV). I hope this doesn't lead to normal modes gettign hit hard with nerf bats like firelands was


I tend to agree. Likely what will happen ? people go buy VP gear from 3000 vps they have collected, will run LFR, will run new quests, start rep farming and will focus on ToT immediately. T14, which is one of the nicest tier as a whole compilation in game history, will be forgotten far too soon.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15270
It is sad to say but Garalon is the worst balanced boss i have seen in 4 years since i started playing Wow. If u have in the raid group some class/spec avaible (pala/healer or rogue) to susbitute the tanks u get an enormous advantage if not u risk to be stucked there. I am risking the disaband of the guild cause the demoralization to be blocked there for a long time
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90 Human Priest
14750
18/02/2013 16:20Posted by Aurelon
I am risking the disaband of the guild cause the demoralization to be blocked there for a long time


If this is true, your Guild isnt a real Guild. Garalon is really easy if you play it with a Tactic, if you get all the time 20 Stacks of the Pheromones then its your fault. Just make some kind of a Rotation and the incoming Damage is healable by 1 Healer.
Edited by Nokami on 18/02/2013 16:27 GMT
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Unfortunately Draztal the game doesn't work like that as much as Blizzard would like it too. When 5.2 comes out, even those players that didn't get around to completing T14 raids will enter ToT and forget all about T14 raids. Granted there is not "catch up" system this time like other tiers which is good and bad ( good from a new player PoV, bad from an alt PoV). I hope this doesn't lead to normal modes gettign hit hard with nerf bats like firelands was


If they have enough gear to push through ToT certainly they have it to clear the remainder bosses of 5.0 raids once 5.2 has been released. Of course, it's up to each individual guild to do whatever they consider better. If they don't feel like finishing MV/HoF/TES... more power to them? Those that clear it before current content on normal will get a Feat of Strength called "Ahead of the Curve" for each of the end bosses in these three raids, too.
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90 Troll Shaman
21625
lol, call first 8 bosses faceroll, then can't play garalon properly and call it spine pre-nerf...which you never did, OP is terribad.

you haven't seen terrace normal yet? thats fine it's not going anywhere blizzard aren't removing it.

but rofl garalon normal..near impossible...bad for life.
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90 Human Mage
13030
18/02/2013 15:43Posted by Draztal
Patch 5.2 will reduce the damage and health of bosses on Patch 5.0 raids by 10%. And The 5.0 Raid Finders will have their droprate upped as well. Pair that with Patch 5.2's upcoming Raid Finder (which requires item level 480) and hopefully you'll have more than enough gear in a timely manner to finish whichever bosses you have still left in 5.0 and move on to the Throne of Thunder :)


I can't believe you replied to this kind of post. I really can't.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
21095
17/02/2013 20:59Posted by Jonsn
Then comes Garalon who is so tightly tuned it feels like pre-nerf Spine HC. There is too much inc Damage from Pheromones, Swipe and Crush to survive long without 4 Healers and yet with 6 DPS you can't even get him below 60% before the Berserk. How is this a learning curve going from Bosses with no challenge to a near impossible one?

Are you serious?
We're fairly mediocre guild and we still got boss to like 30% when we hit enrage running 2 tanks 3 healers 5 dps strat before our first kill. After some dps adjustments (who stays on legs and who kites, etc) and switching to 2 healers 2 tanks 6 dps, the boss dropped.
This is nowhere close to Spine pre-nerf.
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90 Goblin Priest
13465
If this isn't testament to the lack of understanding with players speeding to 90 > faceroll dungeons > faceroll lfr > normal mode > forums to complain, then someone smack me silly!
Garalon isn't tuned hard the slightest, unless your group is made of 450 - 464 on average.

60% and beserk with 4 healers in a 10m scenario I assume, clearly your dps is not even attempting to find out what their respective classes are about, and since you point out the pheromones are doing to much damage.., you as a Gm / Rl haven't done your job.

All jkin aside, if your the type of guild who just lols about, peace be with it.., please just don't start complaining because you can't be bothered doing a little research on classes n' fights.
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