You know this thing with art?

90 Tauren Druid
8820
Hello Argent Dawn!

I like drawing and painting things. Quite a bit, in fact. That is why it bothers me to think that someone might some day take my drawing, paint over it a bit and pass it off as their own without giving any credit.

Since I have understood that this is sometimes a tricky concept on the AA, let me explain the dos and don'ts.

What to do:
Take a picture, use it for a reference and do your own thing with it, like this:
http://i.imgur.com/HaEmQpx.jpg
(Credit for the reference goes to the amazing http://charlie-bowater.deviantart.com/ . Used with permission)


What not to do:

http://i.imgur.com/WM7OGiD.jpg
I MADE THIS FOR SOMEONE. ME.


Is this something we can all please agree on?
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What about, you take up contact with the artist in PM instead of pulling the dramalama onto the forums? :P
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6125
... I'm sorry, the only thing I could think of was "damn, when did Angelina Jolie go ginger?"
Edited by Arthelon on 28/02/2013 20:38 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
8820
28/02/2013 20:34Posted by Vilora
What about, you take up contact with the artist in PM instead of pulling the dramalama onto the forums? :P


Because that way I won't discourage art-thieves in the making.

And, you know, it's been a slow day.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3965
28/02/2013 20:34Posted by Vilora
What about, you take up contact with the artist in PM instead of pulling the dramalama onto the forums? :P

People like this deserve to be made known to the public, if you ask me. It's not a 'dramalama', it's a real issue that people should combat in whatever way they can.

Some people have to make a living making art on commissions, and it's incredibly rude and disrespectful to these people - or any people who put original content onto the internet - to blatantly trace their art and post it as theirs. It's every bit as bad as when people simply take a picture and repost it without permission or source.
Edited by Eyil on 28/02/2013 20:38 GMT
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28/02/2013 20:28Posted by Hinch
I like drawing and painting things. Quite a bit, in fact. That is why it bothers me to think that someone might some day take my drawing, paint over it a bit and pass it off as their own without giving any credit.


Well, that's how art works. For example, you can take a toilet seat you have bought, and merely re-paint it and add whatever decorations you want, and it's your art, despite the object being sold/made by somebody else.

Even changing the colors to opposite is enough to be considered personal art even if another person had made the whole picture himself/herself, or photographed it. (See pop-art).

I personally don't have any problem people doing that to my scrap metal art/clay statuettes, but then again I do understand others ire over it.
Edited by Hërbert on 28/02/2013 20:41 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
8820
28/02/2013 20:40Posted by Hërbert
Well, that's how art works. For example, you can take a toilet seat you have bought, and merely re-paint it and add whatever decorations you want, and it's your art, despite the object being sold/made by somebody else.


If you think a normal toilet seat constitutes as art, I'm pretty sure I don't have to have this discussion with you.

"OH NO SOMEONE BOUGHT A BLANK CANVAS I MADE IN MY WORKSHOP AND DID A PAINTING ON IT - COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!"

No.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11865
28/02/2013 20:40Posted by Hërbert
Well, that's how art works. For example, you can take a toilet seat you have bought, and merely re-paint it and add whatever decorations you want, and it's your art, despite the object being sold/made by somebody else.


You are thoroughly incorrect.

Taking a piece and tracing over it in this manner without accrediting the owner of the IP is theft.
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Well, that's how art works. For example, you can take a toilet seat you have bought, and merely re-paint it and add whatever decorations you want, and it's your art, despite the object being sold/made by somebody else.


If you think a normal toilet seat constitutes as art, I'm pretty sure I don't have to have this discussion with you.

"OH NO SOMEONE BOUGHT A BLANK CANVAS I MADE IN MY WORKSHOP AND DID A PAINTING ON IT - COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!"

No.


I would love to hear one solid argument, what defies "art". It's almost as infinite question as "What is love" or "What's life's meaning?". Hence I shan't bother you with it, and I can agree that mayhabs it is indeed a subject that is not to be argued of, but telling that my view is stupid just because I do not have the same defination of art in my mind is plain wrong.

As for the toilet seat thing, I drew that explanation from 1920's, so it's been around for a while. What I meant with decorating however, would be something like this.

http://nicedecors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Funny-and-Decorative-toilet-seat-1.jpg

Welcome to the world of modern art, kind sir/madam. I wish no quarrel with you.

28/02/2013 20:47Posted by Rafaiel
You are thoroughly incorrect.


Not really. At the moment you buy the product, you are free to use it to whatever means of art you wish, were it a plastic cup or a toilet seat, if you make whatever art out of it, you can claim it as your own made.

If what you'd be claiming would be true, then every single artist could be argued to use theft; Afterall, most painters buy their materials, rather than making them themselves. This way, we'd have to stamp trademarks all over the paintng, to verify what colour and mixture is used in each part. But, we do not.

I'm not entirely sure if you understood me wrong, though.
Edited by Hërbert on 28/02/2013 20:54 GMT
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Good spot, Hinch. Not an entire rip-off: they have put the effort into distinguishing the two - kudos where it's due... the real victim's the poor sap who's no doubt wired precious hard Euros for this half-arsed PR massacre!
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90 Tauren Druid
8820
I see you missed my point completely. Very well then.

Would you also say that if I buy a canvas, then paint something on it, I've infringed the copyright of the one who mounted the canvas onto the frame?

No?

Well, that's the same as your toilet seat argument. I never said that toilet seats can't be art, because I'm sure they can be in some backwards part of the world.

Not really. At the moment you buy the product, you are free to use it to whatever means of art you wish, were it a plastic cup or a toilet seat, if you make whatever art out of it, you can claim it as your own made.


Product, yes. Art, no. I suggest you go look up some helpful descriptions of art copyright, because things certainly don't work like that.
Edited by Hinch on 28/02/2013 20:56 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11865
28/02/2013 20:50Posted by Hërbert
This way, we'd have to stamp trademarks all over the paintng, to verify what colour and mixture is used in each part. But, we do not.


I-... I really think you need to read up on what intellectual property is.

Please, do us all a favour. You look silly.
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28/02/2013 20:53Posted by Hinch
Would you also say that if I buy a canvas, then paint something on it, I've infringed the copyright of the one who mounted the canvas onto the frame?


Absolutely. At the moment you own the said product, you are free to treat is as you wish. You don't even need to buy it to do that/own it, just painting over it or doing whatever to it, for example photographing it from different angles, makes it art. ^^.
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90 Tauren Druid
8820
28/02/2013 20:55Posted by Hërbert
Would you also say that if I buy a canvas, then paint something on it, I've infringed the copyright of the one who mounted the canvas onto the frame?


Absolutely. At the moment you own the said product, you are free to treat is as you wish. You don't even need to buy it to do that/own it, just painting over it or doing whatever to it, for example photographing it from different angles, makes it art. ^^.


Welp, there's no point to this. You missed my point again.

I hope your clockwork robot RP is better than your grasp on intellectual property.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3965
28/02/2013 20:55Posted by Hërbert
Would you also say that if I buy a canvas, then paint something on it, I've infringed the copyright of the one who mounted the canvas onto the frame?


Absolutely. At the moment you own the said product, you are free to treat is as you wish. You don't even need to buy it to do that/own it, just painting over it or doing whatever to it, for example photographing it from different angles, makes it art. ^^.

But the problem is that this person blatantly traced over someone else's art and likely didn't buy it, not that they're committing copyright infringement for using Photoshop or a canvas or paints (I mean what the !@#$ are you even talking about). This person has taken someone else's work, blatantly traced over it and then tried to pass it off as their own. That is the problem. Not anything you are prattling on about.
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People like this deserve to be made known to the public, if you ask me. It's not a 'dramalama', it's a real issue that people should combat in whatever way they can.

Some people have to make a living making art on commissions, and it's incredibly rude and disrespectful to these people - or any people who put original content onto the internet - to blatantly trace their art and post it as theirs. It's every bit as bad as when people simply take a picture and repost it without permission or source.


Oh, I know this all too well, being a regular commissioner for my own pieces for all my chars. But I still think it is a bit more tasteful to take it up with the person directly instead of starting to point fingers on the forum. And I even have had one of my own chars traced and recoloured, to the annoyance of the artist and myself, so myes, I know this all too well.

Take it up in PM. A friendly word will do wonders, you know, and it might just be one big misunderstanding. At least give the person room to explain instead of publicly accusing someone without knowing the story.
For example, that person who did the tracing and editing in my char her pic, took it off and apologised after ect.

Besides, AA has a lovely report button for Art Theft - use that, and let the admins sort it out.
Edited by Vilora on 28/02/2013 21:02 GMT
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Intellectual property (IP) is a legal concept which refers to creations of the mind for which exclusive rights are recognized.[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property rights include copyright, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights, trade dress, and in some jurisdictions trade secrets.

- Wikipedia.

It still doesn't change the fact that you can make a whole lot of variations over somebody elses work, and still claim it as your own doing. Pop art is a good example of this, as I said. It's been done since, what, 1900's.

If you think I'm stupid because of that, Fine, let it be so. But truth doesn't change.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11865
28/02/2013 20:59Posted by Vilora
Besides, AA has a lovely report button for Art Theft - use that, and let the admins sort it out.


I suspect the OP is trying to open the eyes of those who are otherwise unaware this is an issue; for instance, someone who may have entirely innocently made the same mistakes that Herbert is currently making in presuming this sort of theft is acceptable.

28/02/2013 21:00Posted by Hërbert
Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works


Check what those exclusive rights are, dude. You might surprise yourself.
Edited by Rafaiel on 28/02/2013 21:04 GMT
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90 Tauren Druid
8820
28/02/2013 21:00Posted by Hërbert
variations


Too bad there weren't any.

28/02/2013 21:00Posted by Hërbert
claim it as your own doing

28/02/2013 21:00Posted by Hërbert
Pop art is a good example


Andy Warhol never claimed to have made up Marilyn Monroe from scratch, or designed the Campbell soup cans. There's the difference. Can you really not see it?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3965
People like this deserve to be made known to the public, if you ask me. It's not a 'dramalama', it's a real issue that people should combat in whatever way they can.

Some people have to make a living making art on commissions, and it's incredibly rude and disrespectful to these people - or any people who put original content onto the internet - to blatantly trace their art and post it as theirs. It's every bit as bad as when people simply take a picture and repost it without permission or source.


Oh, I know this all too well, being a regular commissioner for my own pieces for all my chars. But I still think it is a bit more tasteful to take it up with the person directly instead of starting to point fingers on the forum. And I even have had one of my own chars traced and recoloured, to the annoyance of the artist and myself, so myes, I know this all too well.

Take it up in PM. A friendly word will do wonders, you know, and it might just be one big misunderstanding. At least give the person room to explain instead of publicly accusing someone without knowing the story.
For example, that person who did the tracing and editing in my char her pic, took it off and apologised after ect.

Besides, AA has a lovely report button for Art Theft - use that, and let the admins sort it out.

See, neither of those really solve the problem in my opinion. If you PM the offending party then you're most likely to get a response like "before you say i am stoling this art let me explain you a thing", if you report it then it gets taken down with what seems to be little actual punishment, but if you bring it to the public then you make sure that people are reluctant to go to this person in the future. It might be spiteful and vindictive to discredit someone so, but I couldn't really care less if they're callous enough to trace someone's art and pass it off as their own.
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