Siege of Orgrimmar

90 Human Paladin
10760
[quote]http://www.wowpedia.org/New_Plague

"Although the Horde did ban it, they gave some apothecaries a weaker version of the blight, which wouldn't be so destructive"


True but my example was that the Orcs were there to stop them from doing so.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
[quote]http://www.wowpedia.org/New_Plague

"Although the Horde did ban it, they gave some apothecaries a weaker version of the blight, which wouldn't be so destructive"


True but my example was that the Orcs were there to stop them from doing so.


Hmm, true but then again you don't see the Orcs do anything beyond get drunk, sobered up and subsequently murdered by Worgen (because the degenerative effects of being drunk = better in combat right?) so I'm not sure whether they even noticed the doomweed.
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90 Human Paladin
10760

Hmm, true but then again you don't see the Orcs do anything beyond get drunk, sobered up and subsequently murdered by Worgen (because the degenerative effects of being drunk = better in combat right?) so I'm not sure whether they even noticed the doomweed.


It was their job to stop the Forsaken from working of their New Plague, it doesn't mean they still can't be terrible and the Forsaken can get away with it :P
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90 Orc Warrior
8175
25/02/2013 17:02Posted by Grimbeard
I've got to tell you, if i was horde, i would be pretty annoyed about this. After all the bad feeling throughout this whole expansion, and suddenly the horde joins hands with the alliance and turns on their own warchief? Seems very un-hordelike to me.


If you pay attention to the story (for which you need to experience the Dominance Offensive questline by making a Horde character and going through the MoP dailies with it), it makes sense. Garrosh is corrupted, he has attacked Vol'jin and even Thrall. He is opposing the true Orc way and the Orcish tradition. He needs to go. How can he be dethroned if he controls the armed forces of the Horde? Thrall and our heroes need the help of the Alliance.

It is like an inverted Orc campaign from TFT - there Jaina and Thrall raided Theramore, killing her father, Admiral Proudmoore; here, Thrall and Alliance raid Orgrimmar, killing(?) his friend's son, Garrosh. It is like a negative, everything is turned upside down from Orc TFT campaign.

Of course, despite all the rational explanations, there is this awkward feeling one might get, that the Alliance is triumphant and the Horde is the losing side. It all depends on how it will all play out, is Garrosh going to be the only one affected or there would be some Alliance characters joining him against the good guys.

One thing is certain though, Garrosh is made to be a very not likeable character to a Horde player.
Edited by Tarmok on 05/03/2013 20:46 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4340
25/02/2013 17:02Posted by Grimbeard
I've got to tell you, if i was horde, i would be pretty annoyed about this. After all the bad feeling throughout this whole expansion, and suddenly the horde joins hands with the alliance and turns on their own warchief? Seems very un-hordelike to me.


If you would have played on the horde side, while on the Dominance Offensive quest chains you would see why our "Warchief" is undeserving of that title.
He would sacrifice all of the members of the horde in order to gain more power.
He tried to kill Vol'Jin, his guards attacked Thrall, he is disgusted by the Forsaken and considers them a blight,he sent blood elves in the middle of mogu statues without warning etc.
Me and my friend have only played horde so far and we're all in agreement that Garrosh is no leader, he acts and thinks like a teenager, under the influence of hormones.
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05/03/2013 20:45Posted by Chestpaddle
I've got to tell you, if i was horde, i would be pretty annoyed about this. After all the bad feeling throughout this whole expansion, and suddenly the horde joins hands with the alliance and turns on their own warchief? Seems very un-hordelike to me.


If you would have played on the horde side, while on the Dominance Offensive quest chains you would see why our "Warchief" is undeserving of that title.
He would sacrifice all of the members of the horde in order to gain more power.
He tried to kill Vol'Jin, his guards attacked Thrall, he is disgusted by the Forsaken and considers them a blight,he sent blood elves in the middle of mogu statues without warning etc.
Me and my friend have only played horde so far and we're all in agreement that Garrosh is no leader, he acts and thinks like a teenager, under the influence of hormones.


First you need to know that garrosh didn't attacked Vol'jin it was the Kor'Kon his Guards! Second Vol'jin threatened Garrosh befor all of that! Like you said HIS GUARDS attacked Thrall not him. And Sylvanas is a B*** so yes i keeps a BIG eye on the Forsaken, Thrall missed that point. Next is the Blood Elves this was the fault of Lor'themar, never send investigator teams without support in unkown land.

So pls rethink your thoughts!
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
05/03/2013 21:24Posted by Naze
Second Vol'jin threatened Garrosh befor all of that


Vol'jin threatened Garrosh AFTER Garrosh told him and his kind to get out of his city.
Edited by Aquablast on 05/03/2013 22:08 GMT
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90 Orc Warrior
8175
05/03/2013 21:24Posted by Naze
HIS GUARDS attacked Thrall not him.


His guards are trained to be extremely loyal to the Warchief, and the orders of Warchief Garrosh were atrocious - enslave all the Darkspear Trolls for refusing to participate in Garrosh's world domination plans.

So, Garrosh was responsible, as a military superior in command.
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05/03/2013 22:20Posted by Tarmok
HIS GUARDS attacked Thrall not him.


His guards are trained to be extremely loyal to the Warchief, and the orders of Warchief Garrosh were atrocious - enslave all the Darkspear Trolls for refusing to participate in Garrosh's world domination plans.

So, Garrosh was responsible, as a military superior in command.


You said it loyal to the Warchief! He order to keep everyone out of Echo Isle, that counts Thrall IN. Thrall is just a normal member of the Horde! It was on his own risk.

And all members of the Horde have sworn a to be loyal to the Warchief, so they NEED to obey!
It's like Sylvanas going to Lor'themar and forcing him to do so, nobody cared about that...

05/03/2013 22:08Posted by Aquablast
Second Vol'jin threatened Garrosh befor all of that


Vol'jin threatened Garrosh AFTER Garrosh told him and his kind to get out of his city.


Ok but what is so bad at Garroshs will? He just wanted Vol'jin and his kind out of Orgrimmar. He is the Warchief, it's his right to do so.
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100 Human Paladin
9645
05/03/2013 22:08Posted by Aquablast
Second Vol'jin threatened Garrosh befor all of that


Vol'jin threatened Garrosh AFTER Garrosh told him and his kind to get out of his city.


That's not what he said. What Garrosh said was,

"Garrosh Hellscream: And what exactly do you think that you are going to do about it? Your threats are hollow. Go slink away with the rest of your kind to the slums; I will endure your filth in my throne room no longer."

He didn't want the trolls in his throne room, which is wise given that Vol'jin threatened to kill him. They're still in Orgrimmar, and even got their own area.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
06/03/2013 21:35Posted by Vatsug
He didn't want the trolls in his throne room,


The Trolls were never in his throne room to begin with, just Vol'jin.

And Naze, just because Garrosh is warchief doesn't mean that Vol'jin should just smile and nod at the outright racism against Trolls.
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100 Human Paladin
9645


The Trolls were never in his throne room to begin with, just Vol'jin.

.


...which is why he said

"Go slink away with the rest of your kind to the slums; I will endure your filth in my throne room no longer."
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90 Orc Warrior
6505
06/03/2013 21:23Posted by Naze


His guards are trained to be extremely loyal to the Warchief, and the orders of Warchief Garrosh were atrocious - enslave all the Darkspear Trolls for refusing to participate in Garrosh's world domination plans.

So, Garrosh was responsible, as a military superior in command.


You said it loyal to the Warchief! He order to keep everyone out of Echo Isle, that counts Thrall IN. Thrall is just a normal member of the Horde! It was on his own risk.

And all members of the Horde have sworn a to be loyal to the Warchief, so they NEED to obey!
It's like Sylvanas going to Lor'themar and forcing him to do so, nobody cared about that...



Vol'jin threatened Garrosh AFTER Garrosh told him and his kind to get out of his city.


Ok but what is so bad at Garroshs will? He just wanted Vol'jin and his kind out of Orgrimmar. He is the Warchief, it's his right to do so.

Well, i wouldnt count Thrall as an ordinary member of the horde, just remember how he has devoted his life to the Horde, as well as the Elements.

And Garrosh might be warchief, and he does have the power to throw ppl out of his city, but The warchief is supposed to be the leader of the horde, which include other factions, and as seeing that the trolls didnt actually do anything, a good leader would not just toss his allies on the streets, so to speak.
When that is said, I wouldnt have a guy who threathened to kill me at my side at all times, but trying to get Vol'jin assasinated is just low.
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90 Orc Warrior
8175

And all members of the Horde have sworn a to be loyal to the Warchief,


Not in the manner of Kor'kron. They are more akin to Praetorian guard, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#In_popular_culture


so they NEED to obey!


If the orders of the Warchief go against the traditions of the Orc people (strength and honor), or just common sense of treating one's allies with respect even if one doesn't like them personally, so as to strengthen his army, then nobody needs to obey them.


Ok but what is so bad at Garroshs will? He just wanted Vol'jin and his kind out of Orgrimmar. He is the Warchief, it's his right to do so.


With that symbolic act of throwing the Darkspears out of the throne room, Garrosh expressed his wish to either deprive Darkspear Trolls of their separate leader (which was his intention, as was later made clear), or kick them out of the Horde. Later though, he tried to even make them into slaves for disobedience of his megalomaniacal commands during the Dominance Offensive campaign, an attempt thwarted by player and Thrall.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
Orc people (strength and honor)


*snort* Like the Orcs have ever properly followed that rule.
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90 Orc Warrior
8175
07/03/2013 22:48Posted by Aquablast
Orc people (strength and honor)


*snort* Like the Orcs have ever properly followed that rule.


Yes, they did. Like the entire Frostwolf clan, or the Mag'har, or even individuals in other clans (not to mention generations before the arrival of the Burning Legion).
Edited by Tarmok on 07/03/2013 23:00 GMT
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
Yes, they did. Like the entire Frostwolf clan, or the Mag'har, or even individuals in other clans (not to mention generations before the arrival of the Burning Legion).


Mag'har? Frostwolf? All the Orc clans committed genocide on the Draenei with reason of paranoia and nothing more. Regardless of the mixed definitions of it, no definition of Honour says it's ok to murder innocents. The Frostwolves also attacked the Stormpikes for no reason other than claims which they don't have, yeah, that's honourable. That's practically killing innocents (that is until the Stormpike came back in force). By using your argument too, I can render the Mag'har dishonourable for the reason of their leader a.k.a an individual (Garrosh) is probably the least honourable Orc to have ever lived, same for his dad.

Their quick to anger nature plus the fact that it is very clear that they don't care for innocents or how they face their enemies shows that they don't respect the whole "honour" rule. You'll get the odd one who at least tries to say Orcs respect honour like Saurfang or Thrall, but overall it's not represented.
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90 Orc Warrior
8175
07/03/2013 23:23Posted by Aquablast
Mag'har? Frostwolf? All the Orc clans committed genocide on the Draenei with reason of paranoia and nothing more.


I recommend getting acquainted with the lore prior to arriving to rash conclusions.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostwolf_clan

http://www.wowwiki.com/Mag%27har

What drove Garrosh, an individual, to his current state is still a mystery. It is evident that he wasn't like that in Nagrand, and started to become gradually more and more corrupted after his arrival from Outland, though.


The Frostwolves also attacked the Stormpikes for no reason other than claims which they don't have, yeah, that's honourable. That's practically killing innocents (that is until the Stormpike came back in force).


http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostwolf_clan#Alterac_Valley
the dwarven expedition known as the Stormpike Guard led by Vanndar Stormpike have started an expedition in the Frostwolf territory to excavate the valley and mine its veins, a transgression to the orcs who inhabited Alterac. This provoked a slaughter of the first expedition, and started the battle for Alterac Valley.


Frostwolves sought shelter from their corrupted brethren in Azeroth. They communed with the spirits and the elemental forces of the land and naturally, saw the reckless exploitation wrought by the Stormpikes as a transgression against them. Hence the conflict.
Edited by Tarmok on 08/03/2013 01:01 GMT
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100 Pandaren Shaman
9625
Still killing unarmed (unless you count mining equipment as weapons) civilians, still dishonourable. As for Garrosh, it wasn't any corruption (it may be now because of Pandaria, but he certainly wasn't in WotLK/Cataclysm).
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100 Human Paladin
9645
So...

The Frostwolves settle on someone elses land and then starts murdering their archeologists. GG. Now they haven't even got any reason to be there except for the hell of it.
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