Mage 5.2 PVE raiding survey

90 Human Mage
15600
Posted on behalf of Lissanna, MVP on the US forums. Original thread at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8155895688?page=1#0.

Hey guys,
Now that 5.2 is here, there is a lot of angst and worry happening in the mage forum. For me to be able to go to the community managers with mage problems, I need data. I've done this type of thing before when I was raiding on a druid, but now that I'm raiding as a frost mage, I have a great deal invested in mages being viable now.

To be able to take data to the community managers & developers, I need actual World of Log data from your raids.

Specifically, it would be helpful if you filled out the answers to the following questions and posted it here:

Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
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90 Goblin Mage
0
no offence m8 but we already know mages are all going to be mid lvl this tier.

the developers have stated in no uncertain terms mages are bad because they want to reduce the numbers of ppl playing them. untill this happens they will continue to be bad.

i have no doubts as of this moment that when my guild start doing heroic content next reset im warming the bench. i simply will not be able to compete.
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90 Undead Mage
9135
06/03/2013 18:02Posted by Desolve
the developers have stated in no uncertain terms mages are bad because they want to reduce the numbers of ppl playing them. untill this happens they will continue to be bad.


source?
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90 Goblin Mage
0
check the blue tweets on mmo its all in there
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we suppose to be customers still. right? What s the logic on that. We have to be last-middle spots at the dps recounters till the class will not be so active? Is this a joke?
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90 Goblin Mage
0
unfortunatly it is not a joke
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90 Human Mage
13730
check the blue tweets on mmo its all in there

Still need source. Since you can interpret it diffrently than others. Some see will see it as the sky is falling overreaction. So no idea what to think of your statement.

(havn't see a topic specificly about this either with were it's quoted hence i'm asking)

PS: i'll see if i can give some logs from tonights raid and tomorrows raid as well later on.
Edited by Taelon on 06/03/2013 22:33 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7415
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?

Yestarday i was an Arcane Mage with 489 item level and i had in single target with only my buffs 65k dps.

Today i was an Arcane Mage with 489 item lvl and i had in single target with only my buffs 45k dps.

If i use Evocation i finish my mana with arcane blast in a while. When i reach 4stack of arcane blast i can choose to spam arcane blast or ? How can i proc arcane missle ? How can i play arcane ?

So ... now i'm playing frost but i've to test it in 10man raid.

Anyway yestarday arcane was >> than frost/fire and today we have frost > fire >> arcane.

Arcane is UNPLAYABLE .

Thank you :)
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90 Undead Mage
9135
06/03/2013 23:19Posted by Oyg
If i use Evocation i finish my mana with arcane blast in a while. When i reach 4stack of arcane blast i can choose to spam arcane blast or ? How can i proc arcane missle ? How can i play arcane ?


RoP/Mastery build

Blast up to 4 stacks only using Missiles when you have 2 procs
Use remaining missiles at 4 stacks
Barrage
Repeat

You're welcome.
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90 Draenei Mage
6305
Im far from an expert but I've been very annoyed by the recent mage changes.

Yes we are always at top of dps rankings but seeing as we are ranged magical attackers where our main focus is dps surely then that should reflect in our dps rankings?

Stack that with the fact we have 0 survivability with the nerf to invocation+evocation+ glyph of evocation and our cloth armour. Frost mages minion cant even tank well.

So where is the fairness when running LFR and questing i notice many more warrior's, hunter's and monk's than any other classes so how can our nerf's be about reducing amount of people playing with mage's.

Why is it always the top that get punished rather than the bottom becoming better? If anything they should be making tank and healer classes better and easier to use to increase there numbers and reduce que times in both dungeon and raid finder.

I could go on ranting but it wont get me any where i hope the community gets behind a drive to set the record straight from the release of MoP we have received nothing but nerfs and changes to bring us down hopefully by the next patch we will get a fairer system to class balancing.
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90 Pandaren Mage
13010
no comment...
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9900
Mages aren't below par. Most of my high-end guildies are hitting 90-100k dps with Fire.
Edited by Frube on 07/03/2013 05:10 GMT
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Frost is still looking pretty good to me... but I'll have to try it out in a proper raid and see how it does.
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90 Undead Mage
13740
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization? I always been arcane , its useless , ruined , trying frost.
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)? 25 man Normal raid
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful): No logs yet uploaded for some reason , will be updated soon
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before? I was arcane for Years , always , been forced to try frost as arcane currently worst spec and most annoying to play.
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid? We all have simmilar ilevel

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage? I feel very dissapointed . Was giving so much effort mastering arcane , gearing it and now its seems all been done for nothing.

6) What is your average ilevel? 505
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization? Weakest spec from all pure caster specs.
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change? I never wanted to cange my specialization. I was always been big fan of Arcane . When all people been reroling back to FL and DS i always remain as arcane . Now i had no choice, or stop playing my mage or try and force myself to play frost . I hate Fire.
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage? Arcane- no dammage - awfull. Frost very poor .
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage? Arcane still awfull , mana mangement very bad , cant raid with arcane . Frost-Not best but still playbale . Doesnt feel im a mage when hybrid classes can outperform you easy.
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids? Arcane- No utility at all. Frost not really what its should be as a pure caster Dps class.
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be? Arcane- fix mana cost . Frost -bring back freeze on bosses.
THANKS
Edited by Poupi on 07/03/2013 08:38 GMT
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90 Troll Mage
17920
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
Tried fire... will most likely change to frost.
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
mostly 25man heroic, challenge modes, 5man hc for valor caps
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
Darkstorm on WoL
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
Used to be Arcane pulling pretty ridiculous numbers. Trying to find the replacement spec atm.
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?
Most of us are ~510+

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?
6) What is your average ilevel?
512
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
Feels like each patch restricts gameplay more and more. Bilzzard focus too much on balancing the numbers instead of improving how the class feels
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
Well i need to optimize how i play in order to bring out the most dps possible. Currently this is not achieved by playing arcane. So i tried fire but will prob be forced into frost by the looks of how it preformed yesterday.
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
With fire and frost you dont really lose much dps in the current tier. For arcane tho... the movement needed in 5.2 is just a nerf on its own.
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
Arcane spec needed a nerf. It was just ridiculously overpowered. So could have hoped for a small down tune for arcane. Guess we got more then that tho as it feels like arcane is close to unplayable atm. Fire got hit abit aswell. Most guys agreed that mages needed a nerf... but going from ~200k dps down to with same gear over 1 night ~130k sure feels abit harsh.
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
Utility? na i bring Dips! :P or well used to...
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
OH how fun to play around with...

I guess hot streaks and inferno blast are some interesting mechanics but i would much more have fires "core mechanic" circle around an ability like: each time you cast a fireball, scorch or pyroblast you gain a stacking buff inc crittchance by 5% untill you reach 75% critt OR land a critical hit (which would reset the stack).

Each critical hit on a target would "ignite" it leaving a dot that tics for ~5sec. This dot should be buildable in a way similar to the rolling ignites in vanilla. If you critt 2 times in 5sec those 2 dots should merge into 1 dot with a refreshed duration of 5sec. Meaning you could build up dmg overtime on your current target.

Once this dot reaches a certain dmg treshold it should explode on the target making it vulnerable to "direct fire dmg spells" (fireball / pyro / scorch) for a few seconds until everything resets and you start over again. The ignite itself (and livign bomb?) should be able to spread to an unlimited amount of nearby targets with infernoblast

(aoe should have dimishing returns. I.e if you spread to 2 additional mobs do you 100% dmg. If you spread to more then 2 additional targets, then each affected target after your 3 primary targets, would receive (up to) -95% less dmg taken... BUT THEY SHOULD STILL BE AFFECTED).

If tuned propperly it would look like you hit alot of mobs but in reallity you do neglectable dmg (-95%) to anything outside of your 3 primary targets.

skill cap with the spec:
you would have to figure out how to master the "ignite" in order to spread it propperly. If you just spam infernoblast then the dot will merge and activate the "vaulnerability mode" which just resets the dmg dot on all adds (remember vaulnerability to fireball / pryo / scorch.. not aoe). you would have to choose btw dmg on main target and aoe dmg on all adds. your main dmg window should be during the vaulnerability phase meaning you have to time evocation or just manage mana in such a way that you have enoght mana to ignite the mob and complete 1 full burnphase. If you run short on mana halfway and need to evocate then the dot will drop off and you basicly have to start over again. Might even throw in some single target cds like combustion, icy veins, or arcane power to pop during vaulnerability phase to make it more intressting when you finally manages to ignite an add.

(ps purely pve fantasy but damn it would be fun)
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90 Draenei Mage
8580
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
Fire
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
5 man + new raid
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-573gspyevbz3zflj/
Performance was not optimal, but even when things were clicking my dps was poor
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
Changed from arcane to fire
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?
Around same.

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
500 equipped
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
Horrible maintenance of 90 talent
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
Arcane is non-competitive. From forums + playing on dummies.
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
Poor, but that's expected as a mage
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
Below average. Feels as though my nukes don't make much difference. Combustion doesn't feel as though it's a big hit.
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
RoF can be useful for adds, but otherwise low.
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
Having a defined purpose as a mage and not being a hinderance to my raid team. For example as arcane I knew that when I could stand still and focus fire bad guys would melt. For fire, when big adds spawned and I could build a combustion the cleave really hurt. At the moment I feel I'm best value to the team on the bench so a better class can dps.
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90 Undead Mage
17840
Mages aren't below par. Most of my high-end guildies are hitting 90-100k dps with Fire.


100k with fire ? todays average dps is around 140k. I dont know how you but i am bis 5.1 mage and i and my raidmate mage are 30-40k behind every other dmg class in raid.
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90 Human Mage
16060
Frost pve dps was alright, finished first boss on 150k effective dps even with allot of orbs being focused on me (495 item lvl used), 2nd behind a arms warrior on 165k which isnt too bad i suppose.
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90 Human Mage
18965
Frost pve dps was alright, finished first boss on 150k effective dps even with allot of orbs being focused on me (495 item lvl used), 2nd behind a arms warrior on 165k which isnt too bad i suppose.


I would love to see some logs for this, not that I don't believe you but to analyse and get close to this myself while raiding.
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90 Human Mage
18965
Part 1: Show me the numbers:

1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
Frost / Arcane Haste

2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
5- Mans, Solo, 10 Normal Throne of Thunder

3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8a3kzmiahujim41b/

4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
No, had the same specs but probably going frost from now on and change to fire when the gear scales.

5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?
In range with the other raid members, Difference is like 5 Ilvl's between all 10 average.

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
Ilvl 490

7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
Frost --> Seemed quite good in 10 normal ToT but still have to get used to it. I loved frost before the patch and have been playing it on various encounters. What I miss most is proc of FoF with my elemental, I loved it and it improves the dps on the move as well since you can use it when frostbolt is impossible to cast.
Arcane Haste --> Mana drains just a small bit to fast what makes my evocation hard to use. I don't like the fact that it removes all 4 stacks and I have to start over all again several times in a boss fight. I do agree do it was a bit to overpowered but this nerf is bit overdone in my opinion.

8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
-

9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
It lacks in some specs, relying on my tier 1 talents that I can only use 1/2 times a minut annoys me combined without having the option to get my FoF procs from my elemental.
Feel like the nerf didn't toke this in accountance for PvE and it focussed to much on the PvP side.

10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
Way better then on the move damage. The Frostbolt buff is quite nice but I would prefer to have more reliability on my procs.

11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
Useless, Many pointed out that locks and moonkins bring much more utility and I can't agree more. Mages don't bring anything worthy but dps to the raid at the moment what isn't pure top dps as well what makes it even worse.

12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
Bring back the elemental procs without snaring or freezing the target or work around a way that we can benefit from reliability on procs in PvE.
Arcane nerf was a bit overdone and should be tuned more correctly by either doing something about the evocation-stacks or mana drain.
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