The Number 1 Problem In Wow

71 Troll Warrior
0
@Ráchel

They have actually learned their lessons as of today. In 10M normal Mogu'shan the tanks have the brain thinking of handling the bosses. You got three bosses that you need to juggle to make sure the right one overloads. Which is quite interesting.

Then you got The troll boss where you rely on DPS and a healer to go into spirit world and handle adds while tank keep boss busy. So in that aspect they learned.

But it is too simple for let us say knowing the tactics from just going LFR.

You don't necessarily need to make raids harder to make them more entertaining, you simply need to add more mechanics into the fight, like you said. So every class get something to do each fight so it doesn't become that only one class have to think on what is going on.

To jsut add extra mechanics into let us say a normal fight in comparison to a LFR fight doesn't necessarily mean it gets harder/easier. Let us take my Tsulong example.

Let us say you get that sort of meter where your fear grows during the night when you fight Tsulong. Since hitting the boss radiates fear into the hearts of the champions trying to help him. Once you reach maximum you get Feared for well, long time. If you click the button just above the fear meter, you spawn a mob looks exactly like you. And you kill it. Meaning you need to build a strategy. Let one dps click early, then the next in a cycle, it becomes a lil harder in form of coordinating, but it gives all classes something to think about more then keeping the tank up and dps on the boss during night time. And between the breaths, the tanks have to spawn their stuff and kill it. It doesn't even need to be hard mob. Just something htat makes the player turn away from nuking at the boss to prevent a long CC fear. That is not able to escape through trinkets and such.

Such stuff can just simple be added to the boss in Normal. And voila you got a difference between LFR and Normal and the casual gamer and the normal gamer suddenly get something to surprise them, a small obstacle to jump over that just takes one whipe to understand, then it is back and Refining the strategy.

Currently Blizz have learned a lil of their lessons but it is still mostly like this :

Either tanks have to keep something in track. Like juggling bosses.

Or dps have to run around kill adds while tanks does nothing more than nuking and building threat against a boss.

That is why I like being a Tank, I get to be in the action and that doesn't bore me out, being a dps would surely bore me out and you got more pressure on having to DPS correctly. Which is easy to learn or just spam tons of buttons and CD's. Which isn't really hard :P
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85 Human Priest
7935
19/03/2013 07:18Posted by Infuria
The number 1 problem in WoW: All the whingers thinking they know more about what's right for this game, than the creators.

The number 1 problem in WoW IS the creators.
Then we wouldnt be playing this game but however catering the casuals COULD be the number 1 problem but again, different opinions.
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71 Troll Warrior
0
@Vaela

I think you are making a large assumption here. I am a Vanilla DPS player and a Tank TBC. I think the mechanics in the fights of Kharazan is more difficult and strategy demanding then todays even thought the juggle process as described as above is hard. The rest of the bosses is pretty much straight forward for a tank. OR rather, major amount of them.

Let us take Magtheridon for example which I never got the personality to enjoy as I quit before I got that far. You need to click some boxes items to get past a certain phase or what ever. That required tactics and strategy from all. IF one failed to get their cube in time, the raid whiped.

We also got the fact that WoW insists on Nerfing bosses instead of keeping them like they were originally. I can get they nerf it cause of bug issues but nerfing them just cause people complain they are hard when they aren't?

I think you are making an assumption that the YEsterday raiders knows nothing about today? In my eyes, it just made everything simpler for me as a tank and simple in the long run bores people out. I don't have to make sure what gear or resistance I have. The resistance of today is just ignored stats since who the hell cares. There isn't any enchants or gear for it any how. ( Which could be useful against bosses in ToT ).

You get quests with set definition for different specs. You get set a definition of your specc now days. You got those spells, just need to work in a comfortable rotation. You gem a little. Enchant a bit as you feel needed. Get a potion. some food. It is less time consuming to gear, but hey, I haven't wiped on any boss cause I am a yesterday raider. I ahve done my tank jobs perfectly nice. With a few flaws on that juggle process. (And it was a pug) While those who were a bit new forgot to do their dps work and such on another boss. Like the spirit boss where the tank is to place himself between the boss and fires. But people kept dumping the fire at the boss so I couldn't do crap.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
19/03/2013 07:27Posted by Shadowpurge
Then we wouldnt be playing this game

But we are playing this game. Huh, go figure...
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90 Human Hunter
3005
08/03/2013 22:30Posted by Ragaranos
Hey guys, you will probably be able to think of several thinks that are wrong with world of warcraft at the moment


The game is fine if you don't pvp.
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90 Human Mage
9965
always funny that people complain about others clearing a instance in 48h... maybe they should try to also play 40 of those 48h lol

what u expect honestly when some guilds spend a month of raidtime for 95% of the other guilds in 2 days

i mean we also cleared ToT normal now yesterday, we spend like 5-6 days of 5-6 hours in total perhaps, so perfectly comparebal to method bloodlegion etc in time played, just we didnt do it in 2 days :p
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90 Human Mage
13420
All ready beaten?

I dont see Ra-Den dead.

They made raids this way.

LFR - Casuals.
Normal - For People who like to raid with a organised group in a guild.
Heroic - For people who want to play the game on the hardest possible way.

Just because you see heroic kills everywhere atm from top guilds dossent it mean that it's not hard, it just means that people are good. And when we talk about Ra-Den, there is no info on him at all, so he will for sure a huge stick in the wheel.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
13625
parents..stop raising a planet full of spoilt little brats..stop plonking them in front of the substitude nanny..give them what they need, not what they want, feed them some decent moral fibre with important basic lessons such as 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap'..
there is NO problem with WoW...
the problem is YOU
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90 Goblin Death Knight
13135
Your achievements show that you've put down Sha of Anger and you've done the first three bosses in Mogu Shan Vaults (most likely on LFR)

Hardly cutting edge raiding there.

I don't understand people who complain about the games ease but haven't even done raiding on normal mode.

You've got LFR: Yes, it's easy but then, it's not designed to be a challenge.

Normal mode: Harder than LFR and some players may find it a challenge, depending on level of skill, I guess.

Heroic Mode: Basically what it says on the tin. Hard mode for raiders.

Get yourself to the point where you're farming Heroic raids for fun, then you can legitimately complain about the game being easy. Until then I'm afraid you won't be taken seriously.
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90 Undead Mage
10675
i hope that some of you took the time to read this and can give me your opinions on this topic thanks for reading

greetings, Ragaranos


The most sad thing is that new, or more unaware, players might actually believe your inexperienced arguments. :/

EDIT: mispell
Edited by Ghostdeath on 19/03/2013 12:09 GMT
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bring back 40man raids with actual item progression rather than farm heroics to get badges and buy the gear
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90 Undead Mage
10675
parents..stop raising a planet full of spoilt little brats..stop plonking them in front of the substitude nanny..give them what they need, not what they want, feed them some decent moral fibre with important basic lessons such as 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap'..
there is NO problem with WoW...
the problem is YOU


It sounds like you have all the needed personal experience to conclude the above?

Of course there are "problems" with WoW, no need to be an ignorant, but just not as the OP states.
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However, what made it hard wasn't the actual boss in many cases, but the fact the only way to access those was by going through a rather lengthy tier route:

Tier 0.5: Zul'Gurub
Tier 1: Molten Core (except Ragnaros)
Tier 1.5: Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj
Tier 2: Onyxia, Blackwing Lair, Ragnaros
Tier 2.5: Temple of Ahn'Qiraj
Tier 3: Naxxramas

Of all these, Zul'Gurub and Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj could be ignored to some degree, but all the others were mandatory in order to get into the next step, with some overlapping though. (You might be able to take down Anub'rekhan in Naxxramas while still working on C'Thun in Temple of Ahn'Qiraj).


And where was the problem with this? Isn't that the way games should be? You start at the beginning and go through all of the content in a specific order. Which game, except actual WoW, no matter whether on- or offline, allows you to leave out content and go directly to the final bosses?

But the community? The community is always getting better and better (and bigger!).


Absolutely! The new generation of WoW-players was born with 10 fingers on each hand and 4 eyes functionning independently, so that they can be alert at all 4 corners of their screens, and react a lot faster because of no hand-movement needed. ... Ah no, sorry, I forgot. Actually the reason is because nowadays they can read!!! Read all those beautiful internet sites that tell you how boss mechanics have to be evaded or countered ..., and this is required before you have ever set a foot inside the instance ... thank you PTR for allowing this even before official release of the contents.
Edited by Meutrich on 19/03/2013 13:01 GMT
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90 Night Elf Mage
10235
thank you PTR for allowing this even before official release of the contents.


This has occurred to me as a major contaminating factor, but I see why it's necessary.

People who want to be ahead of the curve go on PTR and explore all the new mechanics in advance of the Release version. Thus, they get effectively a month or two's head start on the content. Admittedly, they still have to gear up when the patch goes live, but they've already done the fights and planned their team and tactics based on what they've already discovered.

Take away PTR and I'm sure the race for first would be slowed.

OTOH, take away PTR and find the bugs during the race for first. Not so much fun, that.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12310
@Vaela

I think you are making a large assumption here. I am a Vanilla DPS player and a Tank TBC. I think the mechanics in the fights of Kharazan is more difficult and strategy demanding then todays even thought the juggle process as described as above is hard. The rest of the bosses is pretty much straight forward for a tank. OR rather, major amount of them.

Let us take Magtheridon for example which I never got the personality to enjoy as I quit before I got that far. You need to click some boxes items to get past a certain phase or what ever. That required tactics and strategy from all. IF one failed to get their cube in time, the raid whiped.
Please, the first boss of MSV has more tactics in it than the entirety of Karazhan. That isn't just an opinion, that is a fact (note: slight exaggeration, point still stands).

I think you are making an assumption that the YEsterday raiders knows nothing about today? In my eyes, it just made everything simpler for me as a tank and simple in the long run bores people out.
That's not what I said. The top raiders in the days of Naxx40 would be noobs by todays standards.

I don't have to make sure what gear or resistance I have. The resistance of today is just ignored stats since who the hell cares. There isn't any enchants or gear for it any how. ( Which could be useful against bosses in ToT ).
You don't have to make sure what gear you have? I can guarantee you that you won't get past the first boss in MSV normal if you show up in cloth gear as a tank. Also, resistance gear just added unneccesary bloat to raiding, it's good it's gone.

You get quests with set definition for different specs. You get set a definition of your specc now days. You got those spells, just need to work in a comfortable rotation. You gem a little. Enchant a bit as you feel needed. Get a potion. some food. It is less time consuming to gear, but hey, I haven't wiped on any boss cause I am a yesterday raider. I ahve done my tank jobs perfectly nice. With a few flaws on that juggle process. (And it was a pug) While those who were a bit new forgot to do their dps work and such on another boss. Like the spirit boss where the tank is to place himself between the boss and fires. But people kept dumping the fire at the boss so I couldn't do crap.
Rotations are much more complex then in the past. You're seeing everything through rose-tinted glasses mate. Raiding is a very complex business these days.

OTOH, take away PTR and find the bugs during the race for first. Not so much fun, that.
^

You can't take away the PTR, unless you want to be unable to enter the raid on launch day due to a bug that was not found.
Edited by Vaela on 19/03/2013 13:56 GMT
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And where was the problem with this? Isn't that the way games should be? You start at the beginning and go through all of the content in a specific order. Which game, except actual WoW, no matter whether on- or offline, allows you to leave out content and go directly to the final bosses?


With that route specifically? It was on the fact that if you came late to the game you didn't really have any way of catch-up to get into more advanced guilds, other than try to actually run that content when perhaps most guilds at that point had already moved past.

If you flash forward to Cataclysm, it probably isn't crazy to argue that it was too easy to bypass entire tiers by going into the Patch 4.3 5-man dungeons, sure.

If you flash forward to the present....
In Pandaria, now you do have to run that content, but the availability of tools as the Raid Finder and increased drop rates in previous raids means that while you're following that same route (as players were doing in Vanilla WoW) you're doing it at a quicker pace and even without the need of finding a guild running that content, looking for applicants and on the same time of the day you can raid.

So, it's not that there was something wrong with going through that route (in my opinion, I shall add), but, the fact there weren't many ways to bypass content meant that, the higher you went on that progress, the less guilds were around progressing, hence, less players were ready to experience that content.
Edited by Draztal on 19/03/2013 13:41 GMT
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With that route specifically? It was on the fact that if you came late to the game you didn't really have any way of catch-up to get into more advanced guilds, other than try to actually run that content when perhaps most guilds at that point had already moved past.


back in vanilla as long as you Dungeon Set 2 (Tier 0.5) gear proving you could hold your own would get you into a raiding guild

now its run heroics blind pulling everything no cc'ing anymore or interrupting (besides bosses) collecting enough tokens to buy armor to get your ilvl high enough to join the LFR

bring back hard quests that take you all over the world again to upgrade your gear and the only way to get new gear past Dungeon Sets is to run the raid until it drops and you win the roll no more tokens

most guilds had ZG MC and BWL on farm while doing naxx so there was always spaces to raid
Edited by Deilia on 19/03/2013 13:59 GMT
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90 Goblin Rogue
12355
19/03/2013 13:41Posted by Draztal
And where was the problem with this? Isn't that the way games should be? You start at the beginning and go through all of the content in a specific order. Which game, except actual WoW, no matter whether on- or offline, allows you to leave out content and go directly to the final bosses?


With that route specifically? It was on the fact that if you came late to the game you didn't really have any way of catch-up to get into more advanced guilds, other than try to actually run that content when perhaps most guilds at that point had already moved past.

If you flash forward to Cataclysm, it probably isn't crazy to argue that it was too easy to bypass entire tiers by going into the Patch 4.3 5-man dungeons, sure.

If you flash forward to the present....
In Pandaria, now you do have to run that content, but the availability of tools as the Raid Finder and increased drop rates in previous raids means that while you're following that same route (as players were doing in Vanilla WoW) you're doing it at a quicker pace and even without the need of finding a guild running that content, looking for applicants and on the same time of the day you can raid.

So, it's not that there was something wrong with going through that route (in my opinion, I shall add), but, the fact there weren't many ways to bypass content meant that, the higher you went on that progress, the less guilds were around progressing, hence, less players were ready to experience that content.

My paladin tank (Nzall) has full 5.0 LFR gear, geared for hit and expertise softcap, haste and mastery, in that order. it's gear that every paladin tanking site recommends. yet I endlessly end up dying on ToT 10 man trash. same with the druid who tanked with me. and here you are, claiming that 5.0 LFR is good enough to enter ToT normal. that's what you are implying and that's what everyone will read this post like.
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90 Human Monk
7090
The main difference between old raids and current, is the number of players,
40 people is 40 parts of a machine, harder to make, easier to break

doing 10 man versions are easier to organise and micro manage

5 mans have changed a lot though, there is no need for CC or allowing tanks to build up threat,
does this bother anyone could be a interesting discussion
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5 mans have changed a lot though, there is no need for CC or allowing tanks to build up threat,
does this bother anyone could be a interesting discussion


yeah its killed them for me i would take a 3 hour classic brd over the new steamroll version they have any day and i hated brd back in the day way to easy for a group to fall apart half way in but at lest it was fun and took skill

45min strath run why the hell did they remove fun quests like that

traveling the world to do dungeon quests

attuning to get in raids

now its click wait 10min get mash keys get epix or tokens to buy epix

if it was the lord of the rings books you have the original epic tale then people cba reading it all so its changed and this is wat you end up with

hobbit gets ring
hobbit takes ring to elves
elves send hobbit to destroy ring
hobbit destroys ring
hobbit collects epic loot

dont destroy story and game play for ease of access
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