Time to make Challenge mode more accessible?

90 Dwarf Warrior
5055
It is hard to do them with random players, Pugged group.
And the "giving up rate" is kinda high. Especially for the first time players. When they see that we might not make to do Bronze. Then they rather to give it up then bite it and complete it fully.

I miss those ZA and ZG heroic difficulty. Challenge mode is maybe on par with them. But the accessible is not equal to ZA and ZG. So, maybe boost the valor points on them kinda high?
I know that when you get Bronze/Silver, you might get few valor points. But not many people are aware of this. Thus, making it kinda problem.

What about bring them to LFD where you can get valor points on full completion. (Even without Bronze completion, you will get loads Valor Points for that).

I like the high difficulty, but 5.2 doesnt offer me that. But Challenge Mode might give that. But accessible is rather low nowadays.
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90 Human Priest
14750
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874708/
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15240
You confuse how accessable they are with how rewarding they are.

Making them more rewarding does not make them more accessable.

Making them more accessable means making them easier, something Blizz don't want to do. Not all content is aimed at all people and I'm fine with that.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
5055
You confuse how accessable they are with how rewarding they are.

Making them more rewarding does not make them more accessable.

Making them more accessable means making them easier, something Blizz don't want to do. Not all content is aimed at all people and I'm fine with that.

Mmm,
If rewards were higher and worth to aim for. (higher value of valor points). Then in my eyes, they would become more accessible since more PUG teams would be formed to try do to them.

Keep the difficulty, i never meant to nerf them.
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currently, challenge modes have the highest rate of valor points, and require a very skilled group to be completed in a timely manner (ow, boosting my own ego there :P, although it was a quote from blizzard)
the 5 man content on par with zul'gurub and zul'aman simply does not exist anymore, although im all for havingsome content like that (and equally rewarding) they should not remove a system that a niche of players enjoy just to add it. if it's challenge modes you want to do, gather some friends (preferbly skilled :P) and go clear them. forget about trying to pug them, it will not happen.

you could also try and visit Openraid.eu, as far as i know they have some succesful challenge mode teams over there.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
12/03/2013 21:48Posted by Sploin
Then in my eyes, they would become more accessible since more PUG teams would be formed to try do to them.

I honestly don't think timed challenge modes will be good for pugging, since it's somewhat all or nothing. If people mess up, then you lose your chances for medals and thus the majority of the reward.

I would say allow people to switch off the timer, and therefor also your chance to get medals, but then have a VP bonus upon completing it.

I've found the timer to very often be a distraction for newly formed groups, since they focus on the time they think they will get without actually knowing what is up ahead.

The worst group I've had kept asking to restart a the run when they realized it wasn't possible for us to do it in time for gold (and later on silver). However, when we reached Sha of Doubt it quickly became obvious that they didn't do enough DPS to even kill the last boss.
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12/03/2013 12:32Posted by Sploin
What about bring them to LFD where you can get valor points on full completion. (Even without Bronze completion, you will get loads Valor Points for that).


The developers don't have currently any plans to bring Challenge Modes to the Dungeon Finder tool. Also, the difficulty was specifically designed without PuGs in mind. It's very rare you'll be able to meet the level of coordination required on a random group (since it's likely you've never played with anyone else before).

Also, even if you only complete the daily quest for that Challenge Dungeon of the day, it remains as one of the best methods to cap your Valor Points for the week, even if you get just bronze. So it might be a good idea to keep visiting them if you manage to get a stable group going, even if at first it looks like you aren't improving much.
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90 Gnome Mage
9945
13/03/2013 15:14Posted by Draztal
The developers don't have currently any plans to bring Challenge Modes to the Dungeon Finder tool.

Maybe you should.

LFD, giant success, everyone uses (or has used) it.
LFR, giant success, virtually everyone uses it due to gating keeping the Heroic raiders out.
Challenge mode population is tiny, no queuing system.
Arena participation is falling, no queuing system.
Rated BGs are barely used after everyone's cheesed 2200 out of them, 5-man queuing system that could easily be improved upon.
Normal mode raiding population is dwindling, no queuing system.

You created the future of 5-mans during Wrath of the Lich King, the future of raiding during Cataclysm, so I don't see why you've not extended similar tech to the rest of your content.
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90 Undead Mage
20745


LFD, giant success, everyone uses (or has used) it.
LFR, giant success, virtually everyone uses it due to gating keeping the Heroic raiders out.


LFD and LFR are not hard at all. But some things in WoW arent super easy, and its fine like this.
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90 Gnome Mage
9945
LFD and LFR are not hard at all. But some things in WoW arent super easy, and its fine like this.

Where did I say that queued versions of the above have to be any easier than they are now?
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90 Goblin Mage
17455
13/03/2013 15:50Posted by Overlooked
LFD and LFR are not hard at all. But some things in WoW arent super easy, and its fine like this.

Where did I say that queued versions of the above have to be any easier than they are now?


if they don't make the CM easier for people that join it via LFD expect a flood of whines on their difficulty most groups wont be able to kill the first group they pull, and if you want an easier version you have heroics
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90 Gnome Mage
9945
if they don't make the CM easier for people that join it via LFD expect a flood of whines on their difficulty most groups wont be able to kill the first group they pull, and if you want an easier version you have heroics

So the only downside to this is forum whining? Thanks for supporting my argument.
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90 Tauren Monk
16265
"Time to make Challenge mode more accessible?"

NO.
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90 Gnome Mage
9945
NO.

Care to explain why you wouldn't like improved accessibility into challenge modes, angercat?
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90 Orc Shaman
18620
Where did I say that queued versions of the above have to be any easier than they are now?


Current CMs are quite impossible without communication and any sort of plan.

If you want to do them so badly then:
a) group up with people from your guild.
or
b) group up with someone else, there are many people who are looking for group.

It's MMO game, you have to communicate to beat the challenge. Not everything can be done with one click of a mouse. And cut this "we don't have time to plan things in game" crap, if you want it you will find time for it.

LFD/LFR aren't suitable for challenge. You have to make premade.
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90 Gnome Mage
9945
13/03/2013 16:23Posted by Naq
If you want to do them so badly

I don't. I'm just looking at maximising the exposure of Challenge Modes to the subscriber base, making Challenge Modes more economically viable to create.

More people playing what Blizzard is creating means more (or increased duration of) subscribers.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
17020
So the only downside to this is forum whining? Thanks for supporting my argument.


If forum whining is not a proper argument, then I wonder what your post is about? :)

Challenge modes need coordination, focus and from my experience, team spirit. They are hard and unforgiving and while I tanked all of them, I made mistakes, just like everyone else. You know what? It was okay, we tried again and and again, until everyone got it right. Then we got awarded with shiny achievements and nerdscreams on vent. You would not get that in a pugged group. It would make people become angry instead, since "blizz wants us to challenge modes but we cant like this, especially not if [bla bla]" ... if you want to do them anyway, grab those four friends and do them.

I'm just looking at maximising the exposure of Challenge Modes to the subscriber base, making Challenge Modes more economically viable to create.


Yeah right. You apparently know better than Blizzard, it seems?
Edited by Arrax on 13/03/2013 16:35 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12310
You created the future of 5-mans during Wrath of the Lich King, the future of raiding during Cataclysm, so I don't see why you've not extended similar tech to the rest of your content.
The LFG tool and difficult content do not go together. Why do you think heroic 5 mans and LFR are so easy?

Challenge modes would need to be nerfed to heroic 5 man level in order for them to be feasibly put on the LFG tool. Which would defeat the entire purpose of challenge modes.
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90 Gnome Warrior
17045
Challenge modes are accessible by EVERYONE on level 90. It is a matter of days to get excellent gear for them.

Also, CMs CAN be pugged. I use openraid.eu; I have lead about a dozen or so runs and joined some other, and I have 9/9 gold.

Please, leave the difficulty be. Game should be challenging.
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90 Gnome Warrior
17045

Care to explain why you wouldn't like improved accessibility into challenge modes, angercat?


Only way to improve accessibility would be to hand free 463 to everyone.
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