BLIZZ WTF is this gear..

90 Troll Priest
17030
The more hp you have the more effective resilience becomes. That's why high end gear has less resilience because the extra hp will balance out the lesser amount of resilience, as for the low end gear it's the other way around, the higher resilience balances out the lower hp values.

Exact same thing for pvp power. Just different wording obviously.
Edited by Híkari on 14/03/2013 13:26 GMT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
4945
Mathmatically speaking, the 476 honor gear is currently better than 493 tyrannical AND 2/2 upgraded Malo.... SAD BUT TRUE. deny all you want blizzard, but please l2 math. No reason at all to buy anything but the honor gear if this dosen't get fixed.
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Community
I totally misstyped me there, thank an all-nighter for that. I meant 5.2 Heroic PvE gear. Especially openers from Rogue teams (mass stealth) might totally gib the enemy teams within the first few seconds. We will see how it goes, I guess. ;)
No biggie, I assumed you did and that is why I mentioned 5.2 in the post ;)

But just to quell some of your concerns in the area of damage, this is something that we are keeping an eye on and will make changes as they are necessary.
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90 Human Priest
5645
Mathmatically speaking, the 476 honor gear is currently better than 493 tyrannical AND 2/2 upgraded Malo.... SAD BUT TRUE. deny all you want blizzard, but please l2 math. No reason at all to buy anything but the honor gear if this dosen't get fixed.


This is not a rhetorical question as I'm genuinely interested in knowing how this holds true mathematically.

Let's take a look at the Gladiator's Mooncloth Helm. Comparing the 476 version with the 492 Tyrannical.

Here are the stats differences (if you were wearing the 493 helm).

+ 175 Int
+ 262 Sta
+ 116 Mastery (0.19%)
+ 102 Armor
+ 116 Crit (0.19%)
-61 PvPPower (0.18%)
-61 PvP Resilience (0.15%)

So let's forget PvP power for the moment and take the situation where I'm being hit by someone. So I've got 0.15% less resilience. However, I have more stamina and more Armor (let's ignore that int and mastery are higher too). Resi scales with Stamina if I'm not mistaken.

So what is the maths that shows the 493 helm is worse? And are you using the new resilience formula?

Like I said, I'm not trolling or trying to be funny by asking this question. I'm genuinely curious to know (backed up by facts) whether your assertion is correct.

EDIT: I've dug around and found that each % point of resilience translates to 1.42% effective health. So if this is the case, the 493 helm (see above) ends up giving me almost 706k effective health as compared to 702k effective health if I keep the 476 helm.

So as far as I can see, the 493 helm is better than the 476 helm. Am I wrong?

So once again, please explain the maths that shows the 493 helm is worse than the 476 helm?
Edited by Phixer on 14/03/2013 15:58 GMT
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removing upgrades and elite gear from previous season would fix this.


What about NO?...
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10420
Overall there is a 273 Resilience and PvP Power difference between the Malevolent and Tyrannical gear. The reason the PvP stats on the Malevolent gear is so high is because of compensation for the lowered item levels on the Season 13 Honor gear comparitively to the Season 12 Malevolent gear.

I explained this in a previous post, so I will quote it here:
  • 5.1 Malevolent Gear has a higher ilevel than 5.2 Malevolent Gear.
  • 5.2 Malevolent Gear has more PvP Power/Resilience than 5.1 Malevolent Gear.
  • 5.1 Malevolent Gear
  • 483 ilevel (491 with 2/2 upgrades)
  • ~30 ilevels of PvP Power and Resilience
  • 5.2 Malevolent Gear
  • 476 ilevel
  • ~36 ilevels of PvP Power and Resilience


That explains the high PvP stats on the season 13 Malevolent gear. When you consider that the Tyrannical armor for season 13 does not receive this compensation, its PvP stats are slightly lower, but the base stats on it are much higher and in the end it is an upgrade for your character. For a comprehensive comparison of these items, please check out [url="http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=94339:94370:94391:94428:94436;91600:91602:91604:91606:91608;84839:84857:84877:84902:84919&focus=0"]WoWhead[/url].
(This is a comparison of the Monk Ironskin sets using non-upgraded S12 gear, so feel free to change it to your own class)

Can someone please confirm if this is intended or not???
This is intended, at this current point we have no plans to change the stats on the current gear sets.


All you have done by the creation of gear with less pvp power/rezzi than Molev is ensure PvE gear becomes much more viable in PvP due to the lack of scaling in the PvP dept…. I had better start grinding raids to remain competitive….
Edited by Diesel on 14/03/2013 15:48 GMT
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90 Draenei Shaman
9735
Blizzard should simply hand honor gear for free, obtainable as soon as pgs reach 90. Then put this big sign on any pvp item "does not work against mobs". Pve equip gets the opposite treatment, does not work against players.

Problem solved, that way balancing equip would not be a bother for Blizzard, new 90s would not complain for getting their butts kicked in random bgs and noone would grind honor gear to enter LFR.

As a matter of fact most of us are not going to see the elite version of Tyrannical gear until the end of the season; and heroic pve trinkets (probably the same goes for weapons) are way better for dps specs than "elite" pvp ones.
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90 Tauren Warrior
3130
Blizzard should simply hand honor gear for free, obtainable as soon as pgs reach 90. Then put this big sign on any pvp item "does not work against mobs". Pve equip gets the opposite treatment, does not work against players.

Problem solved, that way balancing equip would not be a bother for Blizzard, new 90s would not complain for getting their butts kicked in random bgs and noone would grind honor gear to enter LFR.

As a matter of fact most of us are not going to see the elite version of Tyrannical gear until the end of the season; and heroic pve trinkets (probably the same goes for weapons) are way better for dps specs than "elite" pvp ones.


So, Im casually questing and I get attacked by a full elite geared warrior! Oh noes! Quickly, I need to put on my PvP gear or Ill fight like Im naked! Oh wait, I cant because Im in combat. Im sorry but that won´t solve anything, second giving away gear for free is amazingly dumb. I dont see them handing out free heiroic gear atm no?

It works the same as in raiding almost.

Heroic dungeon=Honor gear
Raid=Conquest gear
Heroic raid gear=Elite gear
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90 Draenei Shaman
9735
You don't get it.

1) World pvp is out of the equation. There, both sets work, it's not like it has to be balanced. Change the tooltip if you want: "Does not work in any instanced pve/pvp environment". Solved.

2) How can handing free starter gear be dumb? Pveers already got starter gear, that's that gear they leveled up with. By handing starter gear to pvpers too you would simply put em on even ground when entering bgs. Sake of balance. And, no, I never said "give em free elite gear". Honor gear is simply a headstart, something you can pvp with without being utterly frustrated. At that point you must pvp a lot to get better gear, the same path pveers have to walk to get it.
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90 Troll Druid
7135
You don't get it.

1) World pvp is out of the equation. There, both sets work, it's not like it has to be balanced. Change the tooltip if you want: "Does not work in any instanced pve/pvp environment". Solved.

2) How can handing free starter gear be dumb? Pveers already got starter gear, that's that gear they leveled up with. By handing starter gear to pvpers too you would simply put em on even ground when entering bgs. Sake of balance. And, no, I never said "give em free elite gear". Honor gear is simply a headstart, something you can pvp with without being utterly frustrated. At that point you must pvp a lot to get better gear, the same path pveers have to walk to get it.


How about adding pvp items to leveling quest rewards? They already have pvp heirlooms.

Gear progression is important part of the game. I do agree there should not be as large gear difference as there is now(10% total difference would be somewhat appropriate instead of the 40-50% difference between honor and elite tyrannical). However I can't agree to any kind of free gear.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9735

How about adding pvp items to leveling quest rewards? They already have pvp heirlooms.



Would be awesome and a fair alternative to my suggestion.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
5970
so ppl with fully 2/2 gear from last season, wont see any gear upgrades until they hit elite gear???

Hows that for motivation?
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90 Tauren Warrior
3130
Eh, there's the craftable pvp gear? That's the starters set. And, you do realise that coding all that takes alot of time right?
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100 Pandaren Monk
13980
At first I was against this, but after consideration it does seem like a good idea.
Newer players just coming into PVP can get the PVP stats quicker (only a bit because of like ~270 difference for entire set) but still lack main/secondary stats.

Less gear difference is good imo.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9465
you cant balance 2 gear sets out that work for pvp and pve, why dont you just rename the ilvl mark from all pvp gear, you cant lfr coz you dont have "ilvl" problem solved
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90 Troll Warrior
11825
OMG BLIZZ OMG WTF HAVE YOU DONE!!

Makes me lol so much ;D

If the old pvp gear is better use that and the motivation to play just to gain purple pixels is lame, play for fun ladies or dont play at all!! :P
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100 Gnome Mage
17840
I have the 491 upgrades mainly.... I honestly don't feel motivated to cap conquest for Tyrannical gear that adds the odd +5 stats.

Fail Blizzard tbh
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What alot of people seem to overlook that the intention of this seasons PvP gear approach is to reduce the gap between those who've been at it since early MoP and those that jump in mid-expansion (if we can assume this is mid expansion ofcourse).

Tyrannical IS an upgrade, however you wish to look a it.
As someone mentioned, the PvP stats may be different from what people expected, the other stats are significantly better.
As someone else also mentioned, resilience becomes more effective the more stamina you have.
Let's also not forget that you'll need the Tyrannical items to get the improved Tyrannical's later on.
That's where you'll start seeing and feeling a bigger difference.

As it stands now, I like this change.
The people in their upgraded sets from last season will still have strong gear for the current standards, but when the people who need to catch up start collecting their Tyrannicals (thank god for the conquest cap stacking now for players who start the process later), they will more or less even out.
By the time that everybody has their full Tyrannicals farmed, the better versions will become available and for those players heavily into PvP (bg's/arenas/RBG's) they will start collecting similar gear at about the same time, ensuring that the challenge of skill remains in place, instead of the previous standards of "Ive got better gear than you so i can just /lol while you beat on me and stun-global you once your done raging on my super elite upgraded max conquest gear".

Good change Blizz, I'm happy, and i'm pretty sure more with me.
Edited by Funkapaws on 15/03/2013 11:00 GMT
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