LFR balance

90 Dwarf Paladin
17580
Although i can't find it i believe GC stated that for 5.2 LFR they would balance it to ensure that mechanics could not be ignored like they were in 5.1 (e.g 3 dog zerg on Stone Guard)

Last night i ran LFR and whilst Jin'Rok and Horridion require at least some resemblance of a tactic unfortunately council was another group and zerg tactic.

LFR isn't my only raiding experience but for those players who only get to see content via LFR i think they deserve a little more respect.
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30 Troll Shaman
270
I like how the floating trash doesn't push people in LFR but merely damages them for peanuts too :D. I was so expecting to laugh at that trash part, but I was enormously dissapointed :D.

LFR is LFR, it's easy to a point where it gets boring, but hey you get rep, gear and that legendary quest items - all I'm there for really.
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2 Gnome Mage
0
You are right, you can absolutely zerging the council. You don't even need two tanks.

Heal ghosts getting through? No problem, outpds.
DPS not stopping an Kazrajin? No problem, outheal.

Standing in void zones / charge path etc.? No Problem, outheal.

Do what ever you want, but making dmg on the proper dmg is not required. If a boss enrages (reaches 100 energy) you simply outheal it. The boss will drop the required 25% anyways sometimes due to cleave dmg.

You can pull the three mobs together (the fourth will charge through the romm) and simply zerg the fight ignoring all mechanics.

But to be fair "tactic" is not needed at horridon either. If you have three ppl who know what to do (two tanks swapping, one dps or heal to klick the orb) there can almost nothing go wrong.

Dunno about Jin'Rokh, didn't pay much attention. The other tank however taunted always when he got the debuff and bombed the raid with it, and still no one died. So i bet you can ignore all mechanics there, too.

And that is very disappointing considering they wanted to be mechanics meaningful, while keeping dps reqs low.
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90 Draenei Priest
12520
LFR as it is right now, is a joke.

Sometimes I hear people say LFR is actually challenging, I even cringe when I see who have only completed LFR before and they're actually pretty satisfied because they think it's the baseline of raiding.

If LFR would be to more challenging (e.g. à la Garalon, maybe even harder) then I wouldn't mind people who only do LFR because they actually experience something instead of just zerging a high HP monster to 0%.
I know someone who has done Terrace of Endless Springs LFR over a 55 times and still doesn't get bored, quite frankly I don't understand how he does that. I pretty much got a mental breakdown on the 4th time I did a LFR boss because of how painfully boring it was.

I also think it's sad we're being pushed into doing LFR to actually get geared to prepare for raiding. I mean yes you could do normal dungeons in full heroic dungeon gear but nobody wants you in your team with that.
Edited by Eleuterus on 14/03/2013 15:16 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
Sometimes I hear people say LFR is actually challenging

The challenge in LFR is dealing with people ignoring the mechanics, rather than just messing up on them.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
17580
I was just generally surprised to see absolutely no difference between 5.1 and 5.2 lfr. I think adding some requirement for at least very basic fight execution would at least make LFR a little more interesting for those people who can only commit to LFR.

I genuinely feel sorry for people who can't commit to a raiding guild and are left with LFR as their raiding experience.
Edited by Winklewonder on 14/03/2013 16:15 GMT
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I genuinely feel sorry for people who can't commit to a raiding guild and are left with LFR as their raiding experience.


As long as people that are not you are having fun with what they do, and you are having fun with what you do...

Also, keep in mind that right now the average player on Raid Finder is most likely more skilled/experienced than those that will visit the place in, say, 2 months. So perhaps things that now you can ignore because of overgeared/experienced players will pose a challenge to the folks doing LFR with LFR gear from the previous tier :-)
Edited by Draztal on 14/03/2013 16:21 GMT
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90 Pandaren Monk
11685
To be honest, I was also standing there just watching how 1 tank tanked everything and me being full mana. It's way easy, but that's maybe because I've already seen the normal version of it.
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90 Human Warrior
9460
14/03/2013 16:20Posted by Draztal
I genuinely feel sorry for people who can't commit to a raiding guild and are left with LFR as their raiding experience.


As long as people that are not you are having fun with what they do, and you are having fun with what you do...

Also, keep in mind that right now the average player on Raid Finder is most likely more skilled/experienced than those that will visit the place in, say, 2 months. So perhaps things that now you can ignore because of overgeared/experienced players will pose a challenge to the folks doing LFR with LFR gear from the previous tier :-)


That may be as you say. Let them have fun with a moving dummy. If they enjoy it, great! Everybody has his own taste in how to enjoy their leisure time.

But as you made legendary Questitems drop once again in LFR almost every normal/hc raider has to go in there too in order to complete the quest in an acceptable time frame.
Furthermore LFR itemlvl is above even normal HDA/Terrace Loot.

By all means, tune LFR however you see fit. Hell, you can even put a lootchest in the area where normally a boss would stand. But don´t push Normal/Heroic Raiders into LFR because they are bored out of their mind.

And please don´t tell us for the hundredth time we don´t have to go LFR. If we want to improve our character as fast as possible we do have to go!

P.S. Sorry my mediocre english it´s not my native language. But the German CM´s seem to be indisposed to answer on any threads except things like: "What´s your favourite pet?"
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Until recently I had never tried a 10 man normal version of a raid and was quite suprised at the difference between it and lfr.

Last time I healed Elegon on lfg we only managed two energy charges and just zerged him down without any problems...didnt quite work like that with our ragtag guild group :-)
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3605
14/03/2013 16:20Posted by Draztal
I genuinely feel sorry for people who can't commit to a raiding guild and are left with LFR as their raiding experience.


As long as people that are not you are having fun with what they do, and you are having fun with what you do...

Also, keep in mind that right now the average player on Raid Finder is most likely more skilled/experienced than those that will visit the place in, say, 2 months. So perhaps things that now you can ignore because of overgeared/experienced players will pose a challenge to the folks doing LFR with LFR gear from the previous tier :-)


Maybe more skilled, but equally rude. For example I went there with my tank and at time we had 11 normals down, and I got yelled names because I as tank positionaed as likely every other guild would. And whole total 3 fights and trash I received over 10 priest grips and yells like : r-!@#$% like you are naturally forever stuck in LFR.'

My point - whatever YOU as Blizzard do - you cannot compensate the human behavior and therefor LFR cannot ever become fun experience as long as there are people, who are rude for the sake of it.

I've done this LFR now 4 times, or 5, and not once even with no wipes - I've managed to pass a raid someone using words like 'turds and such.

LFR difficulty opens door for new/casual players, but it has also opened doors for somesort of 2nd wabe elitism and rudeness.
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90 Human Death Knight
10550
just completed first phase of lfr release and have to say it was very impressive. it caught most by surprise when going over the wind bridge to monsters appeared then the beams started marching towards us. was very impressed good job blizzard.

don't listen to the fools above its not mandatory by any means for a cough cough s!@#$%^ hardcore raider to do lfr to progress.

and the only thing a hraider should want from a raid is the achievement why do they need more powerful gear than the raid is required to be beaten with, to make the runs faster maybe?. who knows what goes on in the mind of a player base that gets everything and cries that a beggar picks up a chip from the floor under there undeserved table.

shame on you kondal
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90 Undead Rogue
0
People know tacts because the proper raiders from 10 and 25 man swarm LFR the first weeks it gets released.

However, the tactics required are indeed very rudimentary. We only wiped twice at the council, and that was because people didnt seem to understand what a skull marker means.
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90 Human Warrior
9460
and the only thing a hraider should want from a raid is the achievement why do they need more powerful gear than the raid is required to be beaten with, to make the runs faster maybe?


Because not everything is as easy as LFR ? Ever tried beating an Heroic Mode with an undergeared group ? I guess no. Please don´t talk about things you know nothing about.

And to completly fair, i could ask you the very same question: Why do you need Gear from LFR ? It could probably be cleared with blue heroic items.
I will even give you the answer: Progressing once character is an essential part of the game and it provides a lot of satisfaction to see your char get stronger and stronger over the course of an expansion.

Furthermore why do you care about my progress as i clearly dont care about yours ?

who knows what goes on in the mind of a player base that gets everything and cries that a beggar picks up a chip from the floor under there undeserved table.


Quite contrary to you i didnt blame anyone for the content they enjoy. I just said the should figure out a way LFR doenst provide benefits except maybe Valor Points for those who go Normal/Heroic.

So please point out to me exactly where i said you shouldn´t have fun in "your" LFR ?

And yes it is my point of view that LFR rewards are too good compared to the effort it requires but heck, i actually really don´t care. The only thing that bugs me that i have to visit it in order to fill gaps in Gear and to complete the legendary quest.

What do you find so offensive about that ?

And one last question: Please explain to me why "we get everything" ? Are you playing a different game ? Don´t you have access to the same content I do ?
I probably put more of an effort in my hobby and in conclusion i will progress faster than you, that only sounds reasonable, doesn´t it ?
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90 Night Elf Warrior
13760
you cant have proper fights in lfr. They lead to wipes. Hell, the lfr I was in wiped to Horridon because most people were tunneling the boss and the fat dude jumped down with like 2 doors worth of adds up. You also have to count in the fact that you'll always have at least one or two healers dpsing and not healing. Also minimal or no dispels, removing curses etc. Now imagine that you have to do the Council or Horridon fight even remotely like it's meant to do. Yeah, that aint going to happen.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
17580
14/03/2013 16:20Posted by Draztal
I genuinely feel sorry for people who can't commit to a raiding guild and are left with LFR as their raiding experience.


As long as people that are not you are having fun with what they do, and you are having fun with what you do...

Also, keep in mind that right now the average player on Raid Finder is most likely more skilled/experienced than those that will visit the place in, say, 2 months. So perhaps things that now you can ignore because of overgeared/experienced players will pose a challenge to the folks doing LFR with LFR gear from the previous tier :-)


I agree Draztal, if the target audience for LFR actually enjoys LFR then i have little argument with it. I can't imagine anyone actually would enjoy that experience repeatedly but that's only my point of view.

I was just hoping to see mechanics the raid group couldn't completely ignore, but unfortunately the tuning doesn't seem to have quite hit the nail on the head yet. I think Horridion is about right in LFR where council falls short by some margin.
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3 Gnome Rogue
0
Well, only 1 lfr group i've been in did all bosses without any trouble and some of these people probably did normal already since they knew tactics and that was the first LFR I got in right after servers went up this Wednesday.

Last time I ran it we wiped 3 times before beating council. Plus 1-2 times on each previous 2 bosses.

It probably depends on the group. DPS is very low in lfr so it's kind of challenging (if you consider wiping continuously untill 5% buff stacks are enough to zerg it a challenge).

Who cares, anyway? If people wanted challenge they'd do normal. All they want is stuffs. Deal with it.

Except for the people who'd rather do normal mode in LFR which does not exist but oh well.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16575
Dear OP, you are clearly ignoring the fact it's first days of LFR being open which means people you are meeting there are mostly raider mains who already know fights and have the gear to perform decently.

Just wait 3-4 weeks, you'll see what happens when you aren't paired with people at ilvl ~510 but 480 (and half of this with boe epics to cheat their ilvl), when average dps of person in raid drops by 40k and when you'll have here or there people doing 20-25k because they have their bags filled with boe epics just to cheat ilvl. Ye, I've wiped on lfr elegon, on emperor twins quite often during last weeks of 5.1...
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11000
I can't imagine anyone actually would enjoy that experience repeatedly but that's only my point of view.

Similarly I don't get how people can stand wiping on a boss for 4 hours and not get bored. After 1-2 hours on the same night, I usually lose interest and want to call it quites. I think that's one of the main reasons why I don't like raiding HC content, since that type of behavior seems to be demanded.

15/03/2013 10:05Posted by Winklewonder
I was just hoping to see mechanics the raid group couldn't completely ignore, but unfortunately the tuning doesn't seem to have quite hit the nail on the head yet.

The problem with having mechanics that people have to pay attention to, is that they cripple the group if no one actually does.

If a mechanic has severe consequences, then it also needs to be very visual. Elagon is a good example of that, where people can very clearly see that they fell through the floor. Garalon, on the other hand, just damage the entire raid when he does his crush, and so people don't realize they are the cause of that mechanic.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
17580
If a mechanic has severe consequences, then it also needs to be very visual. Elagon is a good example of that, where people can very clearly see that they fell through the floor. Garalon, on the other hand, just damage the entire raid when he does his crush, and so people don't realize they are the cause of that mechanic.


Yes i agree, the more visual the mechanic the easier it is for an inexperienced raider/player to react too. Perhaps this is why Horrdion feels like it works better, since adds spawn from different areas of the room.

Having said that, i guess abilities like Kaz's charge mechanic on council could create more of an impact on LFR that would say stun everyone for x seconds, this would then promote people to avoid that mechanic without putting the group in peril.
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