ToT is overtuned

100 Blood Elf Paladin
20920
I killed the first four bosses on http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/niadra/advanced

ilvl 496 equipped, with a few rep items from shado-pan assault, last tiers normal gear (maybe 1-2 heroic items to boost it a little) and 0 drops from tot. Now I have the luxury of having cleared the instance on this character so tactics are not an issue, but I don't honestly think we can blame gear here. Most of the people in my raid had similar if not worse gear for the most part also.
Reply Quote
60 Human Warlock
8435
lulz
Reply Quote
Throne of Thunder normal isn't tuned assuming you are a Heroic raiding guild. If your raid is still progressing through Tier 14 (say, at Garalon) it's very likely you'll be able to only kill Jin'rokh and then face a very difficult battle trying to slay Horridon or Council of Elders, though.

In that case (and for the guilds still progressing through T14) it probably makes more sense to go back clear the rest of Tier 14 (which is now more doable thanks to the 10% reduction in damage and health of bosses as well as the new VP gear you can get with 5.2 Patch).

Guilds that have completed Tier 14 Normal already should be able to progress through Throne of Thunder. Of course, you might not clear all of it in a couple weeks, but it's something definitely doable without getting Heroic gear from Tier 14 (gear from Normal Tier 15 is higher item level).

On the other hand, it's also important to keep in mind that Jin'rokh is a rather easy boss. He's not necessarily a representation of the rest of the raid's difficulty. Which is something many of you have probably noticed while progressing on Horridon or Council of Elders. And that might set a wrong expectation as to how quickly you can/should progress in Throne of Thunder. It's very possible to kill Jin'rokh without much difficulty and then suddenly feel like Horridon is a brick wall, don't despair!

There are many encounters in Throne of Thunder that your raid will have to learn. And it's normal to feel things may be overtuned at the beginning of a new raiding tier while everyone is trying to better understand what each boss does and how to execute the fight properly.

Not everything comes down to how much gear your raid has. In fact, you might overgear, say, Horridon, and yet be unable to progress past him due to an inefficient strategy.

In any case, the developers are keeping an eye out on how things are going, and they will be making adjustments as needed. Ideally, no one should find him/herself in a situation where it looks like it's impossible to win without getting more gear and unable to actually get more gear.

So, don't give up. Go get those VP items (some items from Raid Finder might help as well, absolutely) and keep refining your strategies. The boss kills will come :)
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Hunter
11200
I killed the first four bosses on http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/niadra/advanced

ilvl 496 equipped, with a few rep items from shado-pan assault, last tiers normal gear (maybe 1-2 heroic items to boost it a little) and 0 drops from tot. Now I have the luxury of having cleared the instance on this character so tactics are not an issue, but I don't honestly think we can blame gear here. Most of the people in my raid had similar if not worse gear for the most part also.


And yet your a HC raider with full t14 Hc clear - which means u have something hwich most players dont- insane game skills.

I have only one request - could HC raiders stop playing dumb and be honest to yourself at least u have a lot a lot of skills which puts u way above all other raiders - so pls could u finally publickly acknowledge your own skills and stop playing dumber then u are . Stop diminishing what u already got in this game - skills > gear - and this is why Hc raiders have different look on how ToT tuned is
Edited by Liliith on 21/03/2013 16:18 GMT
Reply Quote
92 Draenei Paladin
15365
I have only one request - could HC raiders stop playing dumb and be honest to yourself at least u have a lot a lot of skills which puts u way above all other raiders - so pls could u finally publickly acknowledge your own skills and stop playing dumber then u are . Stop diminishing what u already got in this game - skills > gear - and this is why Hc raiders have different look on how ToT tuned is


Normal ToT doesn't need immense skills. It's pretty easy once you understand mechanics. If you think that you don't have enough skill for it then maybe it's not for you, and you should enjoy LFR. On the other hand if LFR is not what you want, try to become better in game instead of asking for unneeded nerf.
Reply Quote
2 Draenei Monk
0
21/03/2013 16:16Posted by Liliith
And yet your a HC raider with full t14 Hc clear - which means u have something hwich most players dont- insane game skills.


Quoting this so you can't delete it because it's an absurd thing to say.
Reply Quote
86 Human Hunter
12380
I love how you actually might have to stay in T14, and not instantly zerg ToT. For once, GG Blizzard.
Reply Quote
100 Human Death Knight
18375
I love how you actually might have to stay in T14, and not instantly zerg ToT. For once, GG Blizzard.


Well the reality is that you do not stay in t14.
If you feel that you need more gear you just do LFR.. which you already would be doing for rep if you are in a guild that struggles against the first bosses otherwise you cannot hope to unlock valor.
Going to t14 is a waste of time for any normal guild as far as gearing speed is concerned.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
16245
I wonder what`s your logic in using the word "overtuned". Should I say Lei Shen "normal" is overtuned too, just because i wiped there like 30 times and not properly understanding what thing to do and blaming RNG? Or should I say Jin Heroic is "overtuned" just because I couldn`t kill him last night? As long as you figure out the proper tactics for your group on the specific encounter, everything will be okay. Many bosses can be killed with 495+ or even less, but with good execution. I wonder how many people actually research the boss fight, watches streams, asks for advice from people that cleared it, before coming here and saying stuff like the content is "overtuned". Yes, I killed Horridon normal when the adds had more HP ( all about execution - stun/interrupt/prio kill casters,etc ). Yes, I killed Megaera too when there was a high requirement to DPS or the tanks dropping like paper... How did I achieve that? I did my best, flasks,potions, reforges, regemming, using different talents/specs... all of it!
This is the game, get used to it... Don`t make it a walk in the park as you did with D3, or people that actually enjoy the challenge will leave and find a new one in other games...
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
5235
21/03/2013 17:49Posted by Jezzebelle
I love how you actually might have to stay in T14, and not instantly zerg ToT. For once, GG Blizzard.


Well the reality is that you do not stay in t14.
If you feel that you need more gear you just do LFR.. which you already would be doing for rep if you are in a guild that struggles against the first bosses otherwise you cannot hope to unlock valor.
Going to t14 is a waste of time for any normal guild as far as gearing speed is concerned.
Because LFR gives reliable loot, right?
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
7645
Why is tier 14 heroic gear required for progressing in normal Throne of Thunder? Anything after Jin'Rokh is tuned for item lvl 500 or more. The highest you can get from normals is 496. Most heroic raiders had about 510 before the patch and some normal mode only raiders barely had 490. As a result the elitist crew facerolled it and said it was loleasy while the rest are struggling.

My main has 3 522 pieces, one 502, some upgraded 496s and I'm still way below 500. Why should I farm LFR for months until I'm ready for normal mode? That's how long it is going to take with the current drop rate. Most players in my guild are even less geared even though they have more normal mode kills. I guess I'm not doing ToT with them anytime soon.

Clearing Ulduar hard modes wasn't required for entering Trial of the Crusader or even ICC.


yeah lets clear the new content easy so its boring.

damn i hate people who dont wanna work for doing something in this game and expect it to be tuned to easy level so it can all be completed and finish within a couple weeks.
then the same person - oooh im sooo bored when are blizz bringing out something more challenging.. im bored of this patch blah blah blah
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Hunter
7950
C'mon, most of my raidteam is still under 500, still we are working on Meg now, if you just put some work in it and l2p, you'll kill em in no time.
Reply Quote
84 Troll Druid
440
We're going to make it, brah.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
16470
I have only one request - could HC raiders stop playing so good and be honest to yourself at least u have a lot a lot of skills which puts u way above all other raiders - so pls could u finally publickly acknowledge your own skills and stop playing better then u are .


I am pro and you are noob. Fix'd.
Reply Quote
8 Human Mage
0
If you feel that you need more gear you just do LFR

I did and didn't get a single item. So all I can do now is wait until next week.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Death Knight
12170
21/03/2013 20:02Posted by Samech
If you feel that you need more gear you just do LFR

I did and didn't get a single item. So all I can do now is wait until next week.


Most likely you could tighten up your tactics, rotation etc and down it. Most people do not use the full potential of their character/gear.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
14395
21/03/2013 17:51Posted by Cristi
I wonder what`s your logic in using the word "overtuned".

"I hit the boss and it wouldn't fall over and drop purples, clearly it is too hard".

Maybe.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20920

And yet your a HC raider with full t14 Hc clear - which means u have something hwich most players dont- insane game skills.

I have only one request - could HC raiders stop playing dumb and be honest to yourself at least u have a lot a lot of skills which puts u way above all other raiders - so pls could u finally publickly acknowledge your own skills and stop playing dumber then u are . Stop diminishing what u already got in this game - skills > gear - and this is why Hc raiders have different look on how ToT tuned is


What?

I thought this thread was about the tuning of normal bosses not what skills I may or may not have. It's tuned for normal mode t14 gear at least initially, I don't think I'm playing dumb here sorry.
Reply Quote
91 Blood Elf Death Knight
3505

And yet your a HC raider with full t14 Hc clear - which means u have something hwich most players dont- insane game skills.

what ?
Reply Quote
100 Human Mage
15470
Skill is more significant than gear. Guilds with even a few heroic bosses done in 5.0 raids are only a tiny fraction of the whole player base.

Raid difficulty is tuned for a combination of skills:

- Gear
- Individual player ability
- Teamwork
- Tactics

Let's simplify a bit to illlustrate. Guilds with full heroic clears normally maximize all four categories. It's a somewhat multiplicative effect, so if a reasonably good heroic guild scores 90% on all accounts, their level would be 0.9 the the fourth power = 65%. A more "average" guild may only score 80% and the fourth power of that is 40%.

Gear will evolve. Player skill generally doesn't change much. Teamwork can even become worse if there are changes in the guild and it generally doesn't improve a whole lot after it levels off. So gear and tactics play the biggest part in beating hard encounters and those tend to improve over time like Draztal said.

I think normal mode raiding should be something a player with normal gaming skills should be able to enjoy without overgearing the content. LFR doesn't fill that role because it is effectively a PUG steamroll model of raiding - there's practically no teamwork or bonding between the players. The discussion here is about what difficulty level normal raids should be to start with to feel rewarding and enjoyable to the average raiders. Note that even average raiders are far higher on skills and experience than average WoW players in general.

I expected far less tight tuning for normal modes after reading and listening to the developer interviews that were published before 5.2.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]