5.3 changes concerning PvP

With hybrids, PvP power boosts healing aswell as dps. How about for tanks PvP power boosts parry or maybe even resilience further? If running flags in PvE gear could be viable, but PvP is preferable, then resilience needs to go up in PvP gear. The only stat to work with is PvP power I guess. So if some percentage of PvP power goes to more resilience, I think I would still go for PvP. Afterall, dodge and parry doesn't really help against a couple of mages.

Just add it to skills like sentinel etc heheh. The PvP tank would have more comparable avoidance, aswell as hitting harder on players.

But the main thing to be weary of is tanks becoming unkillable. Its not fun :)
Edited by Sláine on 26/03/2013 10:55 GMT
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Community
26/03/2013 09:46Posted by Jeniwyn
I thought it was obvious that what I meant was single feedback thread regarding the PvP gear changes. In the case of my post specifically regarding tanks, something that hadn't really been a focus so far in this particular thread and might have seen a bit out of context. ^^
Not at all, it is related to the topic and I addressed a similar comment in my last post. We want to make sure that PvE geared tanks are not the best option for flag carriers and are looking into ways to make sure that they will use PvP gear as their best in slot choices.

I also would like to say how important world PvP is for many people, the sole reason I do arena, RBG's and get PvP gear is to be competitive in world PvP and be able to fight back in the world while doing dailies etc.

Now the PvP'rs who focus soley or mostly on PvP are actually going to be worse off when fighting other players in the world. While players who do not PvP at all and only raid are going to have an advantage.

It's not fun when the PvP gear you've worked so hard to get is only useful when you zone in to an arena or a battleground. And is otherwise useless.

I agree people with PvE should maybe have more of a chance in PvP (though I've always thought sucks for them not getting PvP gear, they can always out dps me in a raid/dungeon instead).

In the end players who focus on PvE are going to be doing more damage/healing in raids and dungeons than me, while having and advantage over me in the world. While the only area PvP gear will be more beneficial is in arenas and battlegrounds where it isn't that much better.
We completely agree. We don't want people who have worked so hard to get their PvP gear to be left out in the cold for world PvP either, but we feel that the overall benefits that this will provide are greater than the issues it creates for World PvP.

While we do want World PvP to be an enjoyable experience for everyone, we are primarily concerned with instanced PvP. The reason for this is because world PvP generally comes down to ganking and the number of players on either side. This is not to say that we don't want World PvP and massive, out of control battles to flourish though, we are just not sure that something that suffers from major drawbacks such as faction imbalance is an optimal location for this.

26/03/2013 10:17Posted by Atherion
I do not understand why you have to remove the ilvl 512 from elite gear if it scales down anyways. If we keep the ilvl 512 we will have more of a fighting chance in world PVP whilst keeping the balance in Battlegrounds and Arenas
Because then the conversion across to Season 14 would have been even worse than the transition from S12 to S13. We are aware that the armor not being an upgrade any more is not something many players are happy with, but it is becoming a prestige upgrade with 5.3 again where it will require a certain rating to obtain.

26/03/2013 10:26Posted by Villany
So who will do more damage, a PvE player in full heroic raiding gear, or a PvP player in full honor gear?
I can answer this with a quote from the PvP Gear in Patch 5.3 blog :)
PvP Gear in Patch 5.3:
Even Honor gear, with its considerable amount of PvP Power, will provide more damage in PvP than normal and Heroic raid gear.

26/03/2013 10:10Posted by Martti
btw someone cc the blue. dont see blue on pvp forums so often that i wanna keep him here O:
Wait, what do you mean? :O I am here all the time :'(
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100 Human Warrior
5900
1. what about pve set bonuses? how will you balance them?
2. also tanks and healers in full pve gear seems OP.
3. what about legendary items? sha sockets and so on, are you sure it will be balanced enough?
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26/03/2013 10:47Posted by Бичсудьбы
1. what about pve set bonuses? how will you balance them?
Which set bonuses are you most concerned about? We do not want the set bonuses to trump the other big benefits that are given by PvP gear, so tell us which ones you are most worried about, and why.

26/03/2013 10:47Posted by Бичсудьбы
2. also tanks and healers in full pve gear seems OP.
Already commented on that one :) PvP power will be better for healers than PvE gear.

26/03/2013 10:47Posted by Бичсудьбы
3. what about legendary items? sha sockets and so on, are you sure it will be balanced enough?
I assume you mean the thunderforged items, they all get lowered down to Ilvl 496 as well. The Sha sockets shouldn't be able to trump the value of PvP power, however we will keep an eye on this and make changes if we feel they are needed.
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100 Human Warrior
5900
Which set bonuses are you most concerned about? We do not want the set bonuses to trump the other big benefits that are given by PvP gear, so tell us which ones you are most worried about, and why.

the bonuses that changes mechanics, it is pretty nasty to not know what your opponent can do against you. for example
Item - Shaman T15 Enhancement 2P Bonus: Unleash Elements also grants you 3 additional charges of Maelstrom Weapon.
Item - Shaman T15 Enhancement 4P Bonus: The cooldown of your Feral Spirits is reduced by 8 sec each time Windfury Weapon is triggered.
looks like very strong for survivability
OR
Item - Hunter T15 2P Bonus: Your Steady Shot and Cobra Shot have a chance to summon a Thunderhawk to figth for you for the next 10 sec.
Item - Hunter T15 4P Bonus: Your Arcane Shot and Multi-shot have a chance to trigger a Lightning Arrow at the target, dealing 100% weapon damage as nature.
looks like very strong for pressure...

I can't say for sure without testing, but you do not change pvp set bonuses from season to season, so we just used to know overall class mechanics at arena, but with this pve competitive gear change, I worry it will cause a mess... especially for comps with strong opener...
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One of my biggest concers are the pve geared tanks with way more defensive stats than full pvp geared tank. any plans to balance tanking items for pve?

And like warrior 2 set bonus that gives you're revenge/shield slam 10% change to give you victory rush..
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90 Undead Mage
6050
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tj4wo/
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90 Draenei Death Knight
8260
As I see it now, they have made the PvP easier for PvEers (arena etc) but world PvP is crap for... PvPers. So now, PvPers will have to farm PvE gear lol if they want to do that. Otherwise good luck in ilvl 496 against ilevel 520+.

World PvP was in a sorry state indeed, but this is the nail in the coffin. The question is why Blizzard can't fix something without completely destroy something else? Why not make everything work, why "sacrifice" this and that?
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90 Worgen Druid
10325
Thanks for the response Nakatoir.

My concerns do arise with World PvP. And I don't mean this in a "large scale spontaneous battle sense."

If I'm decked out in full conquest gear, and I run into someone in full raid gear out in the world doing dailies, I want to stomp him. Just like if I went to a raid with my conquest gear he'd want to stomp me on the DPS meters.

A big attraction for me for PvP is out in the world, I'm the most dangerous person around. Now I'll have to be like, "does this guy have way higher ilvl than I do?".
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Is this is actually going to happen? Tell me this is early april fools please.

So you've decided to make it so PvE'ers that are to lazy to grind out very simple and easy gear for honor can use there PvE gear to pvp with i say Why wow?

You went to a massive effort to stop PvE gear being used in PvP now you're saying you can use it again? you confuse me.

Also if you're making it so PvE Heros can come PvP without having to use their time to bother getting PvP gear surely then people like myself who don't have the time to raid can raid in my pvp gear otherwise you're basically saying you're biased to PvE?

i don't mean silly unorganised LFR i mean proper raiding answer me this?

Otherwise i say these changes are just pushing you're pvp community away.
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90 Human Priest
13815
Thanks for the response Nakatoir.

My concerns do arise with World PvP. And I don't mean this in a "large scale spontaneous battle sense."

If I'm decked out in full conquest gear, and I run into someone in full raid gear out in the world doing dailies, I want to stomp him. Just like if I went to a raid with my conquest gear he'd want to stomp me on the DPS meters.

A big attraction for me for PvP is out in the world, I'm the most dangerous person around. Now I'll have to be like, "does this guy have way higher ilvl than I do?".


the problem is the missing of the 'hero-pve-gear' on the pvp-side.

who can gain the best pve gear? think and answer.

who can gain the best pvp gear? with 5.3 ALL in just some weeks.

why in last month of s12 so few players do pvp?
missing of objectives, no incentives in pvp , no reward...
you do pvp and you don't feel rewarded... and consider that i spoke about s12 (elite weapon and upgrade with conquest).

now s13... no weapon (i already have s12elite upgrade itmlvl 498, but in patch 5.3 max itmlvl via cap is 496 lol) no upgrade...

what i have to do with conquest? achievement for collecting?

5.3 = less reward and you, Dear Blizzard, think that means more players do/enjoy pvp?
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55 Draenei Death Knight
0
Most of these changes are good, an ilvl cap for rated PvP is very welcome, and so is the base resilience.

However, I have mixed feelings about the elite gear. Gear upgrades is a huge part of an MMO, and I dont like to use the same gear for several months. That doesnt feel like progression at all. I also dont like that I will have two sets of gear, one PvP set with ilvl 496 that I'll use for rated PvP, and my PvE set, that I'll use in world PvP.

I will have no incentives at all to play my alts once they have 496 gear. For players that dont get gladiator there is basically no rewards at all in PvP, getting that gear upgrade was the reward. No one cares about upgrading your 496 belt to another 496 belt that has "Elite" written on it, especially when it dont have a rating requirement, and even then, who cares about a set in a different color that takes months to get?

I think the ilvl gap between PvE and PvP gear is getting too large, most of the time I spend outside Arenas and Battlegrounds, where PvP gear will be like wearing blue gear when compared to PvE gear, and wearing the same blue gear for several months or having to change gear all the time depending on where you are doesnt feel like a good solution.

My activity in rated PvP will out a doubt go down once I have the full 496 set, and my alts will probably see little or no action at all, and I'll for sure play RBGs a lot less. I enjoy playing them once a week, but now they wont be worth the time of getting a group together, since there is almost no rewards.

What if heroic raids dropped gear of same item level as normals? Just with "heroic" slapped on, the best guilds would still be best, there would just be a smaller gap. Dont think people would be too happy with that, even though it would change nothing in the progression race, just make the difference between a top guild and a casual guild smaller.

The intention is good, but never forget that this is an MMO, you should not feel like your char is stuck for months. Vanity pets, tabards and stuff like that is nice, but gear is the core reward in this game.
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90 Orc Shaman
16680
let's say you do hmm 30% less dmg in pvp in pve gear, because trolol pvp power even with all in gemming.
what kind of dps difference would you see with let's say 20-30 ilevels as you're raiding in pvp gear?
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90 Dwarf Priest
10750
Is this is actually going to happen? Tell me this is early april fools please.

So you've decided to make it so PvE'ers that are to lazy to grind out very simple and easy gear for honor can use there PvE gear to pvp with i say Why wow?

You went to a massive effort to stop PvE gear being used in PvP now you're saying you can use it again? you confuse me.

Also if you're making it so PvE Heros can come PvP without having to use their time to bother getting PvP gear surely then people like myself who don't have the time to raid can raid in my pvp gear otherwise you're basically saying you're biased to PvE?

i don't mean silly unorganised LFR i mean proper raiding answer me this?

Otherwise i say these changes are just pushing you're pvp community away.


Its not like you participated much in pvp to say this.

I do not understand why people dont want to fight eachother with same advantage. (which now finaly will happen in 5.3 in pvp zones)
as for world pvp.. I wonder how many times you had a 40vs40 or city wide raid (I bet last one of these was when mount achievments came from city bosses)

If you want to feel good for killing opponents with lower gear (since you outgear them) go gank low lvls.. same sh*t.. you got a grinding advantage/no fun

I agree the blade egde mountains queu place in tbc was awesome when it was or alliance or horde queuing arenas from there (depending who had the best pvpers there)
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PvE gear should be 100% banned from Arena, RBGS and random BGS.

These PvEers can proberly easily afford to spend large amounts of gold on BiS BoE gear off the AH, they can defo afford to pay 10 for a full contenders set.

Also, what are people going to gem for now?? Is the reduction of resil after 66% still in effect?? because if it is surely it wont help lower the burst but keep it on a similar level, because everyone will be Gemming Damooogeee...
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Is this is actually going to happen? Tell me this is early april fools please.

So you've decided to make it so PvE'ers that are to lazy to grind out very simple and easy gear for honor can use there PvE gear to pvp with i say Why wow?

You went to a massive effort to stop PvE gear being used in PvP now you're saying you can use it again? you confuse me.

Also if you're making it so PvE Heros can come PvP without having to use their time to bother getting PvP gear surely then people like myself who don't have the time to raid can raid in my pvp gear otherwise you're basically saying you're biased to PvE?

i don't mean silly unorganised LFR i mean proper raiding answer me this?

Otherwise i say these changes are just pushing you're pvp community away.


Its not like you participated much in pvp to say this.

I do not understand why people dont want to fight eachother with same advantage. (which now finaly will happen in 5.3 in pvp zones)
as for world pvp.. I wonder how many times you had a 40vs40 or city wide raid (I bet last one of these was when mount achievments came from city bosses)

If you want to feel good for killing opponents with lower gear (since you outgear them) go gank low lvls.. same sh*t.. you got a grinding advantage/no fun

I agree the blade egde mountains queu place in tbc was awesome when it was or alliance or horde queuing arenas from there (depending who had the best pvpers there)


Hmm and what gives you the right to say because I'm not 2.2k rated or even close to that rating heck theres a high chance i'll never get it,but what ever that doesn't mean i have no valid opinion, i pay the same monthly subscription as you so my opinion is as valid as yours so sick of people with high rating or been playing this game longer than me thinking you are better than anyone else you're a real dick buddy.

I have a full time job and a thing called a "social life" one day maybe you will discover this.
but like i stated before my input is as valid as anyone else's i pay the money to play so if there's changes i disagree with then i put my opinion forward thank you very much.

I don't play this game to be best not by a long shot i play it to enjoy it i'm all about equal rights when were fighting but HONOR GEAR ISN'T HARD TO GET! neither is conquest gear so why are they letting these pve hero's just roll in and right everyone off when their bored with silly amounts of sockets and stats on their gear.

dumb as F..k
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90 Undead Priest
8460
I thought that everyone has the chance to CHOOSE which type of server he wants to create a character on, PVE or PVP. So that HE can decide if he wants to do dailies in peace without any concern about being ganked, or have fun doing world PvP with people geared in PVP gear.

The gear changes are ooking awful.

The idea with a full-set PvP resilience bonus seems to be good, you got all pvp gear parts, set, non-set, weapons and tirnkets - then u get a bonus to PvP resi/power.

Remove ilvl from pvp gear, making it much less of a concern when it comes to LFR. This would allow for a better transition between seasons, providing a significant stat increase on a new season gear compared to previous season gear.

Provide pvp gear with more sockets, making it more valuable then pve gear thanks to baseline pvp power/resi and same ammount of sockets as pve counterpart.

WE WANT PVP GEAR TO BE OBVIOUS CHOICE FOR PVPERS TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE IN PVP.
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90 Undead Rogue
16165
Given that it's going to be scaled down in instanced PvP anyway, why *not* give elite gear better stats?
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