5.3 World PVP = an unfortunate sacrifice?

One minor concern would be World PvP. If the item level of PvP gear is only 496, PvE gear might be very dominant here. To be fair with you though, I'm not that bothered with World PvP in the first place, so don't mind this at all.
We are well aware that this is a concern that has arisen from players regarding the recently announced changes. While we understand that this is an unfortunate sacrifice for the overall betterment of PvP, we feel that this change will improve the state of both competitive and entry level PvP. This means that more players will be able to enter into PvP and as such increase to competition and the attractiveness of this fun and exciting area of the game.

This doesn't mean that world PvP and duels will be ignored. We definitely understand that players are wanting more huge, epic and glorious PvP such as those that come from world PvP, we just don't feel that it's the right place with the faction imbalance that is present in such battles. We are also looking into trying to find some solutions that will help with PvE gear in [url="https://twitter.com/holinka/status/315679130081456128"]duels[/url] as we have seen this is a concern as well.


Nakatoir mentions that World pvp is an 'unfortunate sacrifice' does this mean you are doing nothing to prevent this unfortunate sacrifice, or are you just going to allow PVE geared players to dominate pvp geared players in world pvp.

Please give a little bit of feedback on this? World pvp is something i really much enjoy, as your FIRST post on the 5.3 changes in that thread shows an indication that you know it will f-up world pvp but that you don't really care :(

I understand the fact that it is a very large thread, however i am quoting your full text, it is also the first post you made.

Now, if i have missed something or if world pvp is being discussed in a thread somewhere, please show me. But i think that if they leave these changes as they are, it will ruin duels and world pvp.
Edited by Phonix on 26/03/2013 14:12 GMT
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90 Human Monk
7005
I think this is a ludicrous idea, people who PVP, farm just as much as any raider if not more for their gear (Obtainable through farming of course without having to do a boss each week). So i the short term we farm a lot more.

Half the developers argument is that the baseline 65% will make pvers less squishy, but i don't top the DPS meters in raids with my PVP gear on... They also say that pve players wont have pvp power which means they do less damage than a pvp geared player... But just like Vanilla and TBC pve gear will hit a point where it is better than pvp gear. The only way of balancing that would be to increase how much damage we get from PVP by an insane amount!

Not to mention a pve player can also gem PVP power.

Why should a PVE player be given a handicap when the PVP community works hard to get its gear?
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90 Human Priest
6320
Making PvE gear better than PvP gear is a hugh mistake and will get people to rage from day 1.
Wouldn't suprise me if they will lose more suscribers than they gain by this change.
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30 Troll Shaman
0
I don't know where the problem is really.

Battlegrounds, Arenas - PvP territory; Outside world - PvE territory.

Why should "PvP scrubs" have an advantage in PvE guys territory?

You know the world, where people are doing leveling quests,daily quests, kill countless of number of NPC mobs and even raid bosses - clearly PvE oriented, aside from two zones, them being Wintergrasp and half of Tol'Barad.

So PvP guys, give me a reason why you should have an advantage in a PvE environment? What's next, crying that you want to raid in PvP gear? Deal with it already, invest in your PvE game if you are scared getting dominated by a ~540ilvl guy when you try to gank them, just as a PvE guy must invest in his PvP gear when he wants to be efficient in Battlegrounds and/or Arenas.
Edited by Sharice on 26/03/2013 14:55 GMT
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90 Undead Rogue
6240
Outside world - PvE territory


where did the outside world become PvE, when there is horde and alliance out there too.
From what you say

we could say raids and dungeons are PvE territory.

The outside world when alliance and horde are involved is most certainly PvP territory
it just has the PvE elements within it to quest and level.
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90 Undead Rogue
6240
You know the world, where people are doing leveling quests,daily quests, kill countless of number of NPC mobs and even raid bosses - clearly PvE oriented, aside from two zones, them being Wintergrasp and half of Tol'Barad.


also have you played on a PvP server?
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30 Troll Shaman
0
26/03/2013 14:53Posted by Snllzwrth
Outside world - PvE territory


where did the outside world become PvE, when there is horde and alliance out there too.
From what you say

we could say raids and dungeons are PvE territory.

The outside world when alliance and horde are involved is most certainly PvP territory
it just has the PvE elements within it to quest and level.


Semantics really.

The World is PvE players domain, just as the Battlegrounds/Arenas are PvP players domain. Lets not forget that there's PvE and PvP servers, and whilst your argument might stand to a degree on PvP servers, it has nothing to stand on on PvE servers.

Aside of the fact I haven't seen any World PvP taking place since about when TBC was released, jumping a poor guy who is searching for grand prize winning chickens is the closes I've seen to world PvP.

EDIT: I play on PvP servers (Kazzak) and I haven't seen an alliance guy in the world for about 3 months now, and that's pretty much how the Horde:Alliance ratio is on most if not all server, one sided.
Edited by Sharice on 26/03/2013 15:13 GMT
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90 Worgen Hunter
0
26/03/2013 15:10Posted by Sharice
The World is PvE players domain, just as the Battlegrounds/Arenas are PvP players domain. Lets not forget that there's PvE and PvP servers, and whilst your argument might stand to a degree on PvP servers, it has nothing to stand on on PvE servers.


Raids, Dungeons those are PVE players domain, The World is everybody's domain not only PvE elitists
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85 Human Rogue
10685
A good change.

World pvp is overrated beyond belief.Nothing more then a gank fest or 5 vs 1 scenarios.At best a faction atacks the other one at city gates then the other faction gathers twice as many people then wipes then out.

Nothing special is lost,again good change i hope it gets implemented.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9060
Oh how terrible, you won't be able to gank the evil PvE geared players anymore.
I soooo.... pity you.

Because let's be serious. This is what "world PvP" ~80% of the time is all about. Except the occasional assault on faction leaders, where they at least have a chance to change gear. (If they have any.)
The sad state of world PvP was a topic multiple times on the forums, and what answer did the PvE players get? What should they do to be able to do any dailys? Without being 2-shooted by "world-PvPers"? Farm a full set of PvP gear. Which was a ridiculous answer, at least in a game where being up to date with dailys is enough of a pain for many. You just can't put the same effort in both areas.

So no, maybe they should normalize it somehow, so that heroic raid gear would be as good as elite pvp gear in world-pvp. But even with this changes, I'm sure that we will be closer to a balance than before.
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90 Human Rogue
9240
I don't care about world PvP, it is non-existent on my server and i don't want "world PvP" to stop Blizzard from implementing their proposed 5.3 changes.

So, no, i am completely fine with this "sacrifice".

I think this is a ludicrous idea, people who PVP, farm just as much as any raider if not more for their gear (Obtainable through farming of course without having to do a boss each week). So i the short term we farm a lot more.

Half the developers argument is that the baseline 65% will make pvers less squishy, but i don't top the DPS meters in raids with my PVP gear on... They also say that pve players wont have pvp power which means they do less damage than a pvp geared player... But just like Vanilla and TBC pve gear will hit a point where it is better than pvp gear. The only way of balancing that would be to increase how much damage we get from PVP by an insane amount!

Not to mention a pve player can also gem PVP power.

Why should a PVE player be given a handicap when the PVP community works hard to get its gear?


Or just give items a PvE/PvP tag and nerf them accordingly in "competitive" PvP.

PvP = 496 iLevel.
PvE = 483 (or so).

That'll make sure that PvE gear never becomes BiS in PvP.
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90 Human Death Knight
9490
Nakatoir has shown lot of times, that he doesnt know, what he is talking about, when it comes to PvP. His attitude is too casual in this case. Maybe he should stop speaking about PvP at all and take care of pet battles and mounts.

PvE-Equip should never be better (i dont say "as good") than PvP-Equip for PvP-purposes.

Even better: you want to do PvP? Farm your gear. You want to be the best? Then work harder.

Really Nakatoir, nobody likes to be treated like a stepchild! Watch your words...
Edited by Neiel on 26/03/2013 15:56 GMT
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90 Human Rogue
9240
PvE-Equip should never be better (i dont say "as good") than PvP-Equip for PvP-purposes.


Indeed, as it'll force PvPers to start raiding otherwise. Which is against something Blizzard has promised in their MoP manifest.
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90 Troll Hunter
14015
EDIT: I play on PvP servers (Kazzak) and I haven't seen an alliance guy in the world for about 3 months now, and that's pretty much how the Horde:Alliance ratio is on most if not all server, one sided.


You have never been on Darkspear i noticed, but then it's a pve-server .. but TB abd Wintergrasp is a pain sometimes, with always 4 more Ally than Horde there
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90 Human Death Knight
10165
all you world pvpers have to stop crying, yes it is a necessary sacrifice.

world pvp is a tiny portion of the game compared to arena/bgs and I'll gladly fight a heroic raider once a month who's prob terrible at pvp anyway then to have to face a person that knows what he's doing in hc pve gear in arena if these changes were not to go through.
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90 Human Monk
7005
Most of you PVErs defending this are on pve servers... if you toggle your PVP then its you fault for trying to gank some one yourself.

I personally play on a pvp server and this change is bloody stupid...

So PvP guys, give me a reason why you should have an advantage in a PvE environment? What's next, crying that you want to raid in PvP gear? Deal with it already, invest in your PvE game if you are scared getting dominated by a ~540ilvl guy when you try to gank them


Lol the whole point of this comment defeats its self its paradoxical... Invest your time getting PVP gear if you wanna be able to play well against other players!
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we should earn stuff from doing WPvP, and people who gank should get negative effects.
there is no reason for the power of PvE gear, blizz just put % bufs in random dungeon, they could do the same and have weaker gear.
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90 Undead Priest
14325
How is it a PvE enviroment? I came to Outland for the WPvP to be honest. And it delivers, we may have a bit of an unbalanced server but it's a constant battle. I haven't played much since 5.2, but I recall even when doing my dailies (PvE content), I had to be on constant watch and check over my shoulder the whole time to see what players were where and how many. I'd argue that's more PvP domain.

It may be a small portion of the game, but it's still part of it and one that a fair number of players value. Go check out Outland and see it for yourself, there are even huge guilds dedicated to it.

Wasn't it enough with Cata and the HC trinkets/weapons? I thought we were past that.
Edited by Reitha on 26/03/2013 16:51 GMT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9260
Pvpers whine when pve trinkets are better than pvp ones in arenas... and now people with full pve gear will be better at world pvp than ones with pvp gear, and then say that it will be good change <.<...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9060

Lol the whole point of this comment defeats its self its paradoxical... Invest your time getting PVP gear if you wanna be able to play well against other players!


People like you forget something simple: They don't want to play against other players! But they have to. Why? Because there are some weaklings who think going in full PvP gear against PvE players doing PvE content is fun.
And it wasn't as much of an issue till now because:
a) No dailys in Cata.
b) Gear difference wasn't this outrageous. Heck, even the diff between normal honor gear and conquest is insane, and then ad to that the drawbacks of PvE gear. Being 2-shoot ain't fun.

Excepting players to do both of them isn't a solution.
Try it if you think it is doable.

In world-PvP, for the players who invested the same time in getting their gear, the chances should be the same. So I do think that in world-PvP:
LFR = honor gear,
Normals raid gear = conquest gear,
Heroic raid gear = elite conquest gear,
should be acceptable.
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