5.3 World PVP = an unfortunate sacrifice?

90 Orc Rogue
9655
People will never be happy. Whats the alternative, buff PvP gear so PvP players always win PvP in the open world? No. The people who are at more of a disadvantage in World PvP are the PvE geared folk, who probably don't PvP much and have very little to no idea how other class mechanics work, what DR is or why the hell they just got crit for 80% of their HP.

If anything, I think Blizzard is doing their damn hardest to strike a good balance here, and you should support them and not whine when they input player driven ideas. Besides, world PvP is all but dead. Those who do it now, do it because it's fun. Not because they believe it's supposed to be balanced, or that they're supposed to have some immediate advantage over someone else because of gear. Personally, I think PvP stats should be removed, the game would be alot simpler if gear was standardized, like it was in Vanilla (Although I don't think gear was balanced back then, things would need tweaking)
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
Maybe a bluepost could share some light on why it would be so hard to enable PvP power in world zones?
Seems like it is simple enough to enable doesnt it? It has to be made once, it doesnt depend on class, spec, item.
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92 Gnome Rogue
5790
27/03/2013 10:56Posted by Nakatoir
We feel that those cool, epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment


If it's with a bunch of crossrealm strangers rather than familiar names and faces from my server, it's not the same and not 'cool and epic' to me. Just to let y'all know.
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27/03/2013 10:56Posted by Nakatoir
Nakatoir mentions that World pvp is an 'unfortunate sacrifice' does this mean you are doing nothing to prevent this unfortunate sacrifice, or are you just going to allow PVE geared players to dominate pvp geared players in world pvp.
I already mentioned that we don't want to ignore world PvP and dueling in the post that you quoted:
This doesn't mean that world PvP and duels will be ignored. We definitely understand that players are wanting more huge, epic and glorious PvP such as those that come from world PvP, we just don't feel that it's the right place with the faction imbalance that is present in such battles.
So we are well aware that you all enjoy world PvP and we want to deliver on providing an enjoyable experience like world PvP. The main point here is that we feel that while it can generally be an amazing and fun experience, it normally comes down to two things; ganking, and the number of players on opposing sides.

We understand your desire for world PvP and while it's an enjoyable activity, it can never really be balanced because of the inherent factors that it relies on. We feel that those cool, epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment; we will however keep looking into ways to improve the world PvP experience.


May I ask some very simple questions.

If one is ganked, why does him/her not go accquire help from either a fellow ally or him/herself? ie get a max lvl skilled in the art of pvp. In conclusion, I do not feel ganking is a problem in the world since it can be solved by the players help themselves.

Why is being outnumbered in wpvp a bad thing? Me and some friends are always outnumbered, why so much hate when you die?

Why is having unequal fighting power(PVE vs PVP gear, not lvl difference-this will be discussed later) unfair? Why should it be equal? Why does making them equal make it FAIR?

If a nation(faction on a particular server) wants to have a greater army(lvl90s), would this nation not want to groom their youngsters(low lvls)? If they don't then it is their own fault, I regularly fly over places and ask if people need help because they are getting ganked.

Also, it is surely a legitimate tactic to attack the root of their problem(=low lvl). If low lvl don't reach 90, they have less of a problem in the future.
Edited by Injusticè on 27/03/2013 12:55 GMT
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100 Orc Warrior
16435
pvp players that cry about pve players.... nothing new here :P

on a sidenote, pve is not as easy as it used to be. so its by no means free gear and piss easy to farm.
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This brings me back to a post I made yesterday:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7170157219

Why do people who hate wPvP, EVEN join a PvP server!?
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
pvp players that cry about pve players.... nothing new here :P

on a sidenote, pve is not as easy as it used to be. so its by no means free gear and piss easy to farm.


Good that you are a complete idiot who fail to even read the first post and understand what the thread is about.
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Community
Maybe a bluepost could share some light on why it would be so hard to enable PvP power in world zones?
Seems like it is simple enough to enable doesnt it? It has to be made once, it doesnt depend on class, spec, item.
The problem with such a solution is that it would not result in much of a change. The reason this system works for Battegrounds and Arena is because the items will be capped at 496 Ilvl, and the PvP power on PvP gear will make it stronger than the PvE versions. In an open world scenario however there is no Ilvl cap. This means that the gear obtained in PvE will be able to outperform that which is obtained through PvP. We understand the frustration involved in such a change, but do note that we are looking at the effect that this has on world PvP and if we make some changes to this, we will let you know.
I think there's some gross exaggeration of just how many people will actually be rocking full HC gear.

You're not suddenly going to see everyone running around with it, stop acting like they are.
This is true as well, the number of players that have access to Heroic raiding gear is actually a very small percentage of the total population. You shouldn't suddenly be seeing large numbers of Heroic geared raiders running around in the world just ganking others.
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90 Undead Rogue
6255
pvp power should get 25%- 50% extra damage when out in the world, upon dueling, arena, rbg, bg it goes back to your original stat. Would solve the argument about pvp players getting beat due to being out geared. i suppose when you look at it when a ilvl 500+ pve player opens on a pvp player, the stat difference is going to be enormous. Blizzard just need to sort their !@#$ out, cause the game's turning into a sinking ship and everyone will want off if they keep going.
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90 Human Paladin
10050
Nakatoir mentions that World pvp is an 'unfortunate sacrifice' does this mean you are doing nothing to prevent this unfortunate sacrifice, or are you just going to allow PVE geared players to dominate pvp geared players in world pvp.
I already mentioned that we don't want to ignore world PvP and dueling in the post that you quoted:
This doesn't mean that world PvP and duels will be ignored. We definitely understand that players are wanting more huge, epic and glorious PvP such as those that come from world PvP, we just don't feel that it's the right place with the faction imbalance that is present in such battles.
So we are well aware that you all enjoy world PvP and we want to deliver on providing an enjoyable experience like world PvP. The main point here is that we feel that while it can generally be an amazing and fun experience, it normally comes down to two things; ganking, and the number of players on opposing sides.

We understand your desire for world PvP and while it's an enjoyable activity, it can never really be balanced because of the inherent factors that it relies on. We feel that those cool, epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment; we will however keep looking into ways to improve the world PvP experience.


This is really frustrating, your excuses for ruining world pvp for PVP geared players is that:

1. Doesn't matter, its just 90's ganking lowbies, or outnumbering peeps (IT IS NOT)
2. We think instanced PVP is MORE important than world pvp (NOPE, i get pvp gear to go do world pvp, i HUNT for lvl 90's, which is what makes this game fun for me)
3. Again it is really annoying that you seem (emphasis on the seem) to be ignoring a minority or majority i don't know, but you are ignoring a group of people in your game who do Wpvp.

It's like, Wpvpers are being thrown to the side, just because you want to do what you want to do. It's sloppy and messey, if you can't fix everything that is PVP then do not fix what is currently working.

You want to fix BG RBG and arena? FINE!, but don't let this fix screw up Wpvp and Dueling.

Please get it in your heads that if you mess up Wpvp and i start being ganked by PVE players,. i will personally come on these forums everyday to complain about how you royally screwed over your Wpvp community.

I mean, can't you understand the difficulties and problems that are going arise out of this!

says the 460k hp fury warrior that no doubts pull over 150k single target dps in raids, when pvp players do half that damage. You'd be able to blow up quite a few people in world pvp so no wonder you're in favor of this change


This will happen.

Furthermore my fellow Wpvper shave pointed out lots of reasons not to leave Wpvp alone.
A few suggestions by the way:

1. Allow 65% base resilience out in the world (this is probably common sense and already going to happen but i haven't read it anywhere really.)

2. Allow PVP Ilevel to scale with that of PVE items outside of instances but scale it back down to 496 when inside instances! (yes this might be messy but its better than being owned by nubcakes in wPVP because they ahev better egar than me)

3. Where is our Heroic > elite gear comparison now?

You guys mentioned that:

Honour gear (malevolent) = LFR

Tyrannicle = normal dungeon

Elite = Heroic

Elite has now been scaled down to be a vanity item meaning, we have two tier of armour.......

I mean, this expansion is disgustingly messy, and sloppy from blizzard:-

It is THE worst expansion for PVP.

It is THE worst for cheaters and botters

It is THE worst expansion for gear progression (your upgrading screwed up PVP gear progression for this entire season)

It is THE worst expansion for Alts

Don't you sit down and discuss your ideas, ANYONE COULD SEE UPGRADES FOR PVP GEAR WAS STUPID! a 54k CP grind was just hilarious.

It is not just me that knows these failures Nakatoir, it is COMMON SENSE. Everyone knows how much you guys have failed at your jobs to produce a polished game PVP wise. VERY disappointed with blizzard this expansion, really sucks badly.

You can say your trying to fi it now, but your just putting a plaster on the gaping wound that is PVP.

If you can't fix all aspects of PVP GTFO please and go back to the drawing board.....
Edited by Aierwin on 27/03/2013 13:32 GMT
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90 Undead Rogue
6255
says the 460k hp fury warrior that no doubts pull over 150k single target dps in raids, when pvp players do half that damage. You'd be able to blow up quite a few people in world pvp so no wonder you're in favor of this change
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
The problem with such a solution is that it would not result in much of a change. The reason this system works for Battegrounds and Arena is because the items will be capped at 496 Ilvl, and the PvP power on PvP gear will make it stronger than the PvE versions. In an open world scenario however there is no Ilvl cap. This means that the gear obtained in PvE will be able to outperform that which is obtained through PvP. We understand the frustration involved in such a change, but do note that we are looking at the effect that this has on world PvP and if we make some changes to this, we will let you know.

True but I was thinking in lines of client/server just diagnozing if it is a player vs player fight and go by the same formula that would be used in a bg.
Only hitch with that would be if someone is currently in combat with some mobs or such but some kind of solution down those lines seem far more fair and less damaging overall than just sacrificing it all together dont you agree?
Edited by Nethermore on 27/03/2013 13:30 GMT
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How will we kill a healer with base 65% ress and full healing gear ?
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
How will we kill a healer with base 65% ress and full healing gear ?

We wont but instead of doing a thorough proper change BLZ tend to do the easy quick fix with lots of flaws like they always do when it is possible.
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81 Orc Hunter
1215
It's quite funny how this expansion was supposed to bring world pvp back, and now you seem to abandon it.
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
It's quite funny how this expansion was supposed to bring world pvp back, and now you seem to abandon it.


Well that is true but it is also obvious that BLZ think they need to choose between improving PvP or wPvP, that they cant do both(in their view) so in that sense it is the correct call.
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100 Undead Warlock
12165
Wow get over yourselfs farming pvp gear is not hard and if you read the patch notes nowhere does it say pve'ers get PVP power which is what you GANKERS use to cut through the resilience and yes everyone that is crying here about this change is doing so cause it will make it harder for them to sneak up on that pve guy doing his dailies and gank him while he has 2-3 mobs on him.
Not a single one of you has ever dropped down and done a offensive emote and given the other player a chance to put on pvp gear and fight back honourably nope you are just simply crying that this will make your ganking harder.
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90 Orc Warlock
5575
Wow get over yourselfs farming pvp gear is not hard and if you read the patch notes nowhere does it say pve'ers get PVP power which is what you GANKERS use to cut through the resilience and yes everyone that is crying here about this change is doing so cause it will make it harder for them to sneak up on that pve guy doing his dailies and gank him while he has 2-3 mobs on him.
Not a single one of you has ever dropped down and done a offensive emote and given the other player a chance to put on pvp gear and fight back honourably nope you are just simply crying that this will make your ganking harder.


It is not hard no, time consuming just like PvE gear is not hard.
What people are after and BLZ also confirm this mindset is that if it is about PvP which wPvP is they should get something in return for all that time they spent acumilating gear instead of nothing.

Do you have a problem with that if so why and would you not be pissed if there was some kickass PvP weapon easily and quickly available that a person brought into a raid totally shreding your hard earned gear?
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Honor, offensive emote? This is a game, not irl knights duelling for fame. If u dont want pvp u have pve servers.
Edited by Omnisbite on 27/03/2013 14:05 GMT
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90 Troll Death Knight
7160

I already mentioned that we don't want to ignore world PvP and dueling in the post that you quoted:
So we are well aware that you all enjoy world PvP and we want to deliver on providing an enjoyable experience like world PvP. The main point here is that we feel that while it can generally be an amazing and fun experience, it normally comes down to two things; ganking, and the number of players on opposing sides.

We understand your desire for world PvP and while it's an enjoyable activity, it can never really be balanced because of the inherent factors that it relies on. We feel that those cool, epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment; we will however keep looking into ways to improve the world PvP experience.


"epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment"

As a Guild Master of one of the biggest world pvp guilds on Outland this is shocking, "epic battles out in the world can be done in a much better way through an instanced environment", this is not world pvp it's a battleground done between 10/15 players without counting AV and IoC which is not about killing the players but rushing the boss to see who can kill him faster.

If you wish to learn more about world pvp please visit our guild website,

www.vengefulmidnight.eu which actually includes videos from world pvp, now my understanding now my guild will have to farm PvE gear to fight the opposite guild on Alliance because PvP gear is a garbage compare to the PvE one? Don't think so. Keep going the way and soon final world pvp guilds will say goodbye because they won't put up with pathetic changes. I wonder when the phasing issue is going to be fixed that was mentioned by the other blue guy ? Hopefully this year but then hey when it's fixed we will have to farm PvE gear to be competitive as the opposite side. So hows this awesome phasing/instance technology working out?


Totally agree. Instanced PvP is NOT WPvP. WORLD does not = INSTANCED.
What happened to all of the MoP hype...all of the 'we really want to encourage WPvP in this Xpac'? Seems like Blizz are doing a fine job at it /sarcasm. As above we already have the ridiculous phasing issue to deal with...now this as well?
Also...if you think WPvP is just about numbers/imbalance or ganking lowbies you seriously need to get out and experience it more to get a more accurate idea what it is.
Edited by Xsadia on 27/03/2013 14:10 GMT
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