Time for a new lootsystem?

90 Orc Hunter
12565
This topic came to me during the last couple of days after I, once again, completed an LFR with no loot besides gold.

I used to raid on an active basis and I was sort of happy with that, but as I've grown (sadly) time have become more precious and rare so raiding for me now days is simply not possible, at least not on the level I wish to raid, so I have to satisfy myself with LFR's and the occasional normal raid If anyone is willing to take on a guy with minimal experience.
My guild is a PvP guild while I'm a PvE player myself so there isn't much raiding happening there unfortunately.

Anyway... moving on to my thoughts.

The loot-system... is not very good IMO. This random loot thing simply.... well it sucks.
Having a system that... eventually.... MIGHT.... drop an item for you doesn't sound very good to me and I'm not sure why I have put up with it for so long. Granted there aren't any real options but I have never said a word about it, besides in the occasional thread here on the forums.

So.... PvE... random drop, raid and hope for the frigging best. You can raid for years and years and still not get the item that you actually need, i.e. a weapon upgrade. Do LFR over and over again and hope for it to drop. It doesn't drop and then you have the next tier out.. so you start doing the new instances and dungeons and hope for a new weapon and it still doesn't drop. You are well deserving of a new weapon after doing the same boss 'bout 20 times but you still don't have a weapon and now the next patch is lurking around the corner.
I'm sure you understand what I'm saying.

Meanwhile... PvP have a different kind of system, but it's a fair system. Do PvP... and you can get the gear you need. As long as you actually do PvP.

Why not have something similar for PvE? Why not? I know there are valor and justice points but they don't cover everything. Weapons would be a good example.
It's quite stupid that you need to kill one boss, maybe 20 times, for one item, that might drop. That might drop.
To finish one instance 20 times for a full new set of ilvl xxx, I can agree with. But one boss 20 times? For one item? No.

The system could be something like this... you complete 1 instance and you can choose what item you want, or complete it twice? Or like it is today you are still awarded with valor points.. but for the valor points you can buy all kinds of gear... LIKE WEAPONS.

Except for last week i've done the LFR's looking for a new weapon since I don't know and I'm still using a dungeon weapon, ilvl 463.

LFR's doesn't have gear requirements as such but it still aint funny to use a ilvl 463 item when the current LFR ilvl are 502.
It affects you when in raids and while LFR's might not have harsh requirements about gear, eventually you will fall behind and when you eventually do find a normal raid your gear is too poor and you have no idea when, or even if you will ever be able to upgrade that weapon piece.

Anyway this is just a thought, that maybe it's time for a change, just maybe, and I would like to know how other people feel about the current system itself and what sort of other system they would like to see instead of the RNG one.

Take it easy now
Edited by Gratzner on 14/04/2013 23:19 BST
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90 Worgen Warlock
4095
LFR is too see the content not about loot.

If you want more chance at loot then find a guild and do runs. Don't ask blizzard to dumb down the game even more
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
Sorry,

I should've clarified I do not only mean LFR even though I used LFR in the example.

But the basics would be the same and it should definetly not be considered as "dumbing down the game".

Complete one instance 4-5 times and you know the bosses and their mechanics and it's sort of easy mode from there on. Say you are missing one item from one specific boss and you have killed this boss so many times you lost count. To still be required to kill that boss over and over again i find quite strange. Especially since it might not drop.

Again.. I dont see this as "dumbing down the game", just asking about a new loot system that is more fair. My example was just an example that came to me out of the blue. If anyone have another idea, I for one, would love to hear it.
Edited by Gratzner on 14/04/2013 23:54 BST
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90 Human Warlock
16615
But the basics would be the same and it should definetly be considered as "dumbing down the game".


Outside LFR is distributed like it always have been, and besides people being able to need random stats, strenght rings / necks / trinkets sometimes pop up for this.

I like the new LFR loot system over the old one, now you dont have groups of 5 queing up to help a buddy gear by needing everything for him, nor people who needs to disenchant or vendor
Edited by Caci on 14/04/2013 23:29 BST
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85 Human Mage
4770
The problem with the PvP model is that you can grind it until your fully geared. That's why conquest has a cap. The system isn't perfect and that's why you have VP/JP and VP upgrading for gear.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
14/04/2013 23:29Posted by Caci
But the basics would be the same and it should definetly be considered as "dumbing down the game".


Outside LFR is distributed like it always have been, and besides people being able to need random stats, strenght rings / necks / trinkets sometimes pop up for this.

I like the new LFR loot system over the old one, now you dont have groups of 5 queing up to help a buddy gear by needing everything for him, nor people who needs to disenchant or vendor


You are right. But it's still random and that's where I find the thorn in my side.

I also liked the new LFR system at first over the old one. But after these months with it I've grown to dislike it very much which is very sad since I liked it so much in the first place.
But indeed it has its advantages for sure.
Edited by Gratzner on 14/04/2013 23:35 BST
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90 Pandaren Hunter
0
I like the new LFR loot system over the old one, now you dont have groups of 5 queing up to help a buddy gear by needing everything for him, nor people who needs to disenchant or vendor


This.

And also I remember how often you would be spammed in /whisper when you won a piece of loot in the old system. I was playing on my paladin, and I pressed need on tier legs - which I did in fact need. I won, and this other paladin kept spamming me in /whisper about how he had been coming for weeks and weeks and only needed those legs. And when I said I needed them myself he called me basically every name in the book.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
14/04/2013 23:34Posted by Kibkip
I like the new LFR loot system over the old one, now you dont have groups of 5 queing up to help a buddy gear by needing everything for him, nor people who needs to disenchant or vendor


This.

And also I remember how often you would be spammed in /whisper when you won a piece of loot in the old system. I was playing on my paladin, and I pressed need on tier legs - which I did in fact need. I won, and this other paladin kept spamming me in /whisper about how he had been coming for weeks and weeks and only needed those legs. And when I said I needed them myself he called me basically every name in the book.


I remember that as well and if you won something there was a change you would get several whispers indeed. On the other side you could do the same :) I got lucky once.
Annoying when it happened to you indeed but also a problem not too difficult to solve.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
The problem with the PvP model is that you can grind it until your fully geared. That's why conquest has a cap. The system isn't perfect and that's why you have VP/JP and VP upgrading for gear.


Not sure I follow.
You can only have a certain amount of conquest points in one season?

And the JP/VP is actually fine. If only they could be used for all kinds of gear.
Edited by Gratzner on 14/04/2013 23:40 BST
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90 Human Hunter
6230
Eh, I post in one thread, it shows up here.

Wrong thread.

And no, no new loot system.
Edited by Michelli on 14/04/2013 23:41 BST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9165
LFR is too see the content not about loot.

If you want more chance at loot then find a guild and do runs. Don't ask blizzard to dumb down the game even more


The point of LFR is to allow us that don't treat WoW as a full time job or are unable to catch up quickly enough to be able to raid. Why should we be punished for it?

A system that allows you to gear up effectively makes much more sense.

I remember when I actually used to raid that loot drops were about what LFR is now.

Personally my situation is this -
I'm not high enough geared to get into current raid content with what few guilds offer it on my server.
So I do LFR and rep gear to catch up.
Except by the time anything drops (and it takes at least 2 weeks to farm enough VP to buy a piece of current tier raid gear) the next patch is out.

At the time of 5.1 I had two 489 pieces. By 5.2 I was still missing the Chest (now 502 LFR), Wrist (now 522 rep) and I still haven't gotten enough VP to buy the Hands, Legs or Feet slots for 489 gear.

I would have been high enough to level to raid last patches end game content but it's taken me until about last week to get that far using the supposed catchup system. I can't raid current content as I am again behind and I doubt I'll ever be able to catch up in time for it.

One of the things that has always dragged me behind is weapons. I've don Elagon 10 times now and not even a sniff at a Tanking weapon or shield from the Kings.

If the point of LFR truly is to just 'see the content' then why do they offer rewards for it? Why do the bosses drop loot at all?

Because it's not that, it's supposed to be a catchup system really or a supplement or a way to earn VP to buy rep-gear.

The point is unless you were there at the start it is increasingly difficult to break into the raiding scene, and those of us that weren't there at the start of MoP still are unable to catch up gear-wise to what is required.

The fact that you can go a whole month and literally get nothing except MORE FING SIGILS OF WISDOM is insanely tedious.

I haven't done them all 20 times yet, but by the 20th time if I have not had a new shield or weapon I shall become very very tired with the whole thing. To those players that have done it 20 times and with no luck, I think you should by now be rewarded.

Not only is it time consuming, soul destroying and frustrating to brave the world of LFR (particularly as a tank or healer) you're also paying blizzard money for the privilege of maybe or maybe not being able to get any better. It doesn't depend on skill, effort or courage it's just pure RNG. Luck. It's basically the most boring form of gambling ever invented.

20 times, is 20 weeks, which is 5 months. 5 months!!! 5 months of subs to get nothing. Imagine if that has happened to you. No skill reward, no effort reward, even if you were super nice to everyone. Nothing for 5 months of subs. Just bad luck.

It needs a new system.
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90 Human Death Knight
11080
The current system is fine. Somehow people think loot is a privilege and then when they dont get it right away they come here to make threads about changing the system. RNG is RNG, deal with it.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
The current system is fine. Somehow people think loot is a privilege and then when they dont get it right away they come here to make threads about changing the system. RNG is RNG, deal with it.


No one has said anything about getting loot right away. Read the first post properly.
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90 Worgen Warrior
0
This has been mentioned again and again over the years: having to kill a boss 27 times before he dropped what you wanted plus you need to win the roll...

Many solutions have been mentioned with the simplest being that justice/valor points can buy you any item from the loot table of the boss you have killed 5 times or over.

But it will not be implemented because there needs to be some grind in the game to allow the content to last longer.
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90 Human Death Knight
11080
No one has said anything about getting loot right away. Read the first post properly.


So this [quote]PvE... random drop, raid and hope for the frigging best. You can raid for years and years and still not get the item that you actually need/quote]

Has nothing to do with QQing about not getting loot right away? I see. As i said before, RNG is RNG, learn to accept it since it is the best system for these type of things.
Edited by Acelius on 15/04/2013 00:40 BST
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90 Worgen Warrior
0
Who said "right away" ?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
14055
I think there is incoming fix for exceedingly long crappy RNG streaks, the stacking chance bonus each time you roll gold.

I did all 9 bosses on LFR last week with my warlock alt, got 9x gold. This week did one part of LFR, got 1 loot 2 gold.

The thing with RNG, and very large number of WoW players is kinda interesting. Even if something has 0.1% chance to happen (for example rolling gold 40 times in a row - average chance of this happening is 0.15 percent) there will still be 10,000 players that indeed roll gold 40 times in a row! Most players do raid LFR, the loot rate sample is very large there.

I had !@#$ty RNG that hindered my raid progression before. I was raiding heroic tier 14 with blue weapon because sheer maths on hunter sha touched gun were very unfavorable (dumb token boss with 17 other items on loot table, only 1 of which drops)
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85 Human Mage
4770
14/04/2013 23:40Posted by Gratzner
The problem with the PvP model is that you can grind it until your fully geared. That's why conquest has a cap. The system isn't perfect and that's why you have VP/JP and VP upgrading for gear.


Not sure I follow.
You can only have a certain amount of conquest points in one season?

And the JP/VP is actually fine. If only they could be used for all kinds of gear.


There's a weekly conquest cap that increases (a little?) with rating I think. You can farm honor till your fully geared but there's a conquest cap to stop that happening with the higher tiers purchased with conquest points.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
15/04/2013 00:39Posted by Acelius
No one has said anything about getting loot right away. Read the first post properly.


So this [quote]PvE... random drop, raid and hope for the frigging best. You can raid for years and years and still not get the item that you actually need/quote]

Has nothing to do with QQing about not getting loot right away? I see. As i said before, RNG is RNG, learn to accept it since it is the best system for these type of things.


No it hasn't. It's about a new loot system that still requires alot of time and for you to do the same instance several times in order to have a full ilvl xxx gear, not about getting loot right away.
Like I said before, read the first post properly and learn to use that brain of yours, because right now.. you aint doing it.
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90 Orc Hunter
12565
15/04/2013 03:51Posted by Someoneelse


Not sure I follow.
You can only have a certain amount of conquest points in one season?

And the JP/VP is actually fine. If only they could be used for all kinds of gear.


There's a weekly conquest cap that increases (a little?) with rating I think. You can farm honor till your fully geared but there's a conquest cap to stop that happening with the higher tiers purchased with conquest points.


I see.

Like you said the system is not perfect, but it's still fair. Do PvP and you will be able to buy the gear you need. If you dont do PvP, you wont be able to.

I believe there should be something similar in PvE, I really do. This RNG system has beaten me after all these years of WoW. I am a weak orc :(
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