The amount of CC is just too damn high!

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18/04/2013 18:52Posted by Hjelpen


I think I will refer you to http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns :)


I think I will refer you to "They don't share the same DR" l2p
Actually, Freezing trap, Sap and Gouge share the same DR. Same goes for Fear, Psychic Terror (Psyfiend fear) and the Blind disorient. Just wanted to mention that, but also that the developers briefly mention diminishing returns in the blog tomorrow as well.
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Problem is every class has some of it now, Bliding light, shockwave, psyfiend, druid aoe disorient, intimadition, asphixiate, are all instant CCs that don't need to exist but do exist.
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90 Human Rogue
15650


I think I will refer you to http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns :)


I think I will refer you to "They don't share the same DR" l2p


Sap: Disorient
Psychic Scream: Fear
Scatter: Scatter
Ice Trap: Disorient
Psychic Terror: Fear (?)
Blind (if that is what you mean by disorient): Disorient
Kidney Shot: Stun
Psychic Scream: Fear

There is definitely some DR here.

EDIT: Aww, show started on tv and now Nakatoir beat me to it. ;)
Edited by Thornass on 18/04/2013 19:08 BST
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90 Worgen Druid
8885
With regards to crowd control, we don't really feel like there is too much of it, right now. We feel that CC is integral to PvP because without it battles simply become about tunneling and burst cooldowns. This is actually another situation where the question is touched on in a bit more detail in the "Ask the Devs — The Answers" blog which we plan to post tomorrow. So be sure to keep your eyes open for that :)


Then you are utterly wrong and incapable of designing a game.

CC is applied too often in this game. Way, way too often. It won't be okay until half of the CC spells in the game are removed or MUCH harder to use.

The problem isn't the length of a CC, and it isn't the DR categories. The problem is just how easy they are to put up for almost no cost. There is almost no way of predicting or stopping it because there are SO, SO MANY WAYS TO APPLY IT.

EDIT: The reason people said CC was an important part of PvP in the first place was it was so difficult to do.
Edited by Ishaye on 18/04/2013 19:40 BST
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90 Human Rogue
15650
I think the problem is mostly that the risk for applying is CC is almost non existant for most forms. CC should be hard and risky to apply, but rewarding if you manage to get it off. Right now, most CC is easy to apply, yet very rewarding.
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100 Night Elf Druid
19675
18/04/2013 19:02Posted by Nakatoir
Actually, Freezing trap, Sap and Gouge share the same DR. Same goes for Fear, Psychic Terror (Psyfiend fear) and the Blind disorient.

Is there any official and up to date (!) list of which CCs share DR with which? Given how often this changes (and often just changes on PTR without getting live) it is a little hard to keep track.
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90 Human Rogue
15650
18/04/2013 19:52Posted by Felyae
Actually, Freezing trap, Sap and Gouge share the same DR. Same goes for Fear, Psychic Terror (Psyfiend fear) and the Blind disorient.

Is there any official and up to date (!) list of which CCs share DR with which? Given how often this changes (and often just changes on PTR without getting live) it is a little hard to keep track.

I guess I can make one, I'm getting camped in-game by Hordes anyway. :p
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6 Dwarf Priest
0
18/04/2013 18:02Posted by Nakatoir
With regards to crowd control, we don't really feel like there is too much of it, right now. We feel that CC is integral to PvP because without it battles simply become about tunneling and burst cooldowns.

Uhm...like theyre not about burst/ tunneling, right now?
Right now the healer is simply cc'd 24/7 while the rest of the team gets tunneled/ burst down.
Its exactly because of the excessive ccs the game is so much about burst right now.

Also: if the problem is burst (which is a problem tbh) then why not tone down the burst? I'd say 75% of all posts on the mb are people complaining about burst.
Might as well address/ solve both issues at once.

Are you somehow suggesting that without the excessive ccs available right now you cant have an enjoyable pvp experience?
I'd say many games prior to wow have shown you wrong.


This is actually another situation where the question is touched on in a bit more detail in the "Ask the Devs — The Answers" blog which we plan to post tomorrow. So be sure to keep your eyes open for that :)

I will.;)
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90 Dwarf Monk
11760
fire mages have too much cc fix please
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90 Human Paladin
10770
With regards to crowd control, we don't really feel like there is too much of it, right now. We feel that CC is integral to PvP because without it battles simply become about tunneling and burst cooldowns. This is actually another situation where the question is touched on in a bit more detail in the "Ask the Devs — The Answers" blog which we plan to post tomorrow. So be sure to keep your eyes open for that :)


I never say negative things to Blues, but you are !@#$ing clueless if you think the amount of CC in this game is fine.

Hunters have too much, albeit I like the changes on the PTR regarding Intimidation.
Mage CC is annoying. Dying in a Deep > CS chain isn't what a healer calls fun.
RoP/Mass Grip/Solar Beam/Ring of Frost > AoE CC is extremely frustrating and annoying to deal with.

Oh and lets not forget how Fear damage threshold is completely garbage because I've seen myself dying in a Fear just because it refuses to break.
Edited by Jmcscøtx on 18/04/2013 20:01 BST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
Wow thornass finally got some transmog?! looking good man!

Ontopic. There is too many new "clutter" CC spells that came in mop. Such as disorienting roar, blinding light, shockwave+warbringer on arms warrior, 30 second hoj, rogue teleporting and cheap shotting everything off one dance. et cetera.

I believe the burst needs to be toned down in addition to the CC. Games should be won with well-set up CC chains and well-timed burst+pressure. Healers should have to be careful with mana and it should be a lot more punishing for them should they hit zero. As it stands I have almost no mana issues as a resto druid in most pvp situations.

In 5.0-5.1 we had swifty macros in addition to insane instant CC that won games in seconds. In 5.2 not much has changed except the warrior has been replaced by a rogue in the majority of it's setups. Mage teams killing things and forcing major CDs on most deeps by casting almost nothing.

Hope this sheds some light.
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90 Worgen Druid
8885
I guess I can make one, I'm getting camped in-game by Hordes anyway. :p


That's very kind of you. If you make it, make a new thread and I'll report it for sticky. Such a list should be stickied.

Well, to be fair it should be inside the game's tooltips but of course can't really expect Blizzard to actually give enough of a **** about PvP for enough seconds to update the tooltip.
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90 Human Rogue
15650
Wow thornass finally got some transmog?! looking good man!

Thank you, thank you.

Does anyone have a list of all CCs that are currently in-game? Would speed up the progress of making a DR-list quite a bit. :)
Edited by Thornass on 18/04/2013 20:07 BST
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85 Draenei Priest
8450
I think when you reach a situation where people don't honestly care about diminishing returns to any great extent then you seriously need to either reconsider the CC in game or the DR system or both. But the Blue is right to an extent I suppose, given the crazy amounts of burst currently in game then it makes sense to counter that with a crazy amount of CC. Just really makes me sad to see the official attitude at Blizzard being that the amount of CC (and burst) is not a concern and they are still deluding themselves that CC usage is tactical ( when most people don't really give a consideration to their CC's cooldown or DR because they have so many options CC usage moves from "tactical usage" to basically spamming). I don't mind CC as a concept; I just wish bringing back some thought to it's usage was on Blizzard's agenda.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
Does anyone have a list of all CCs that are currently in-game? Would speed up the progress of making a DR-list quite a bit. :)


You could probably google it ;)
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6 Dwarf Priest
0
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/227748-mop-diminishing-returns-updating-the-list/

Not sure if its 100% correct but it gets updated often.
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58 Dwarf Death Knight
130
dem blue posts always make me lol HARD.
blizzard have no clue it seems what its like to do arena/RBG these days.

CC is waaaay out of control. that's a FACT.......
the only way I can see out of this is for someone at blizz (probly the guy with the BIGGEST BALLS) to drastically change things.
How can being sat in CC for over 20 seconds by classes with spammable CC while your teammates are blown to bits in under 10 secs not be too much CC??
DR is useless.

either remove some of the CC. change CC to make EVERY CC have like a 20 sec cooldown and a cast time or something or have a resolve bar (akin to ToR but better) where as if your CCd by ANY CC for longer than say 15 secs then your immune to all CC for 10 secs of something. reduce damage in pvp. I couldn't give a !@#$ how much dmg we do. its got to be about skill and grinding opponents down not "oh CC that dude for a bit while I global the other guy" its ridiculous.

Healers are OP to hell too. healers shouldn't have CC at all imo. except maybe one CC to escape %^-*.

its a waste of time doing PvP nowadays. its like playing the game without a keyboard and mouse for the amount of time you actually have control of your toon lol...
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I dunno what r u talking about.
It's clearly enaugh BM+Retri+someone around, to just get to a healer or any other dps class and oneshot it.
You don't need any CC or any tunnel(it was in S8). Just choose between BM and Retri. It's enaugh.

Huh? Damn it. I forgot.
Rogue and The skill trinket! Which helps to kill a geared resto druid before rogue will show up(talented for 3 sec). Yeap, it happened to my druid, when we played cap. He had 493 gear and been killed for 3 second garrote-silence. Was he suppose to trinked garrote? I dunno, it's up to you, but I don't think, that CC is too much, i think that Blizzard Dev team works more for a Titan project and World of warcraft at the moment has the same situation as Star craft was. No one carry about it. PVE-players pays for a gametime, they eat siht(forcing one instance per year and do not wine). They are mass, like 90% who likes to kill mobs. Other 10%, even if they quit - 90% will pay for this game and won't say anything about balance. When they started talk in last content, that elementals are useless in PVE, Devs heard them! They gave a PVE save ability to elementals, which saves good enaugh in PVE, but in PVP elemental still lacking surviveability, you ask why? Because it was designed for restoration, because most players plays in restoration. 2v2, 3v3, rbg, pve. Resto shaman is definitely one of the strongers heal class, because of it's mastery system, but other specs causes only facepalm. Elemental in pve it's 5 buttons which include 4 CD-spells(lava(8sec), shock(5sec), elemental blast(12 sec), unleash(12 sec or so), lighting bolt(no dps no cd)) , in pvp it's much more, but wtc if one melee can overtunnel and stop whole elemental DPS or heal(wtf, elemental heal? What is that?). Add a broken mastery system - and we will recieve a !@#$ty class, which can release itself only on RBG or PVE.
If i would my RBG leader, i would never take elemental in raid. When I play on my DK and if I see elemental on arena - I always tunnel it and it always die! No way to win.

P.S. I don't need current mastery system that gives random !@#$ for DPS on RBG, like proc or do not proc. I want mastery system like mages or warlocks or any other hybrids has - increase spell damage, but not another procs for a spell which damage like 20-30k. Lawl. Too much restrictions. Other hybrids doesn't have it. So why do us? It's good enaugh for PVE, but on arena or RBG, we need a controled burst. So much fun, when I think that I will one shot target on sphere BG and it only crits for 100k and there're no another procs. Then I'm watching recount and see - warlocks 400k shots. That's a real, but 100k... it's not even serious.
Edited by Уанноо on 18/04/2013 20:57 BST
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90 Worgen Druid
8885
It's absolutely extraordinary. The community has been saying CC is too easy to apply persistently for the last 4 years and every time we think they get the message, because they say they do, and stop posting about it for a few months they come and tell us they think it's okay even though they didn't change anything.
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90 Human Rogue
15650
Here you go guys. :)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7339014515#1
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