Upcoming Changes to Pet Battles

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Community
We're going to be buffing some pet passives in a future patch, and elementals are on the list. We feel that the elemental passive is currently too confusing in that it is somewhat ambiguous with regard to direct effects of weather, but not effects that are not directly related to weather.

For example, if your opponent has a pet that gains an additional attack in a Blizzard, they will still get the additional attack against your elemental pet. This can feel bad in some cases and we want pet passives to always feel good and useful. We also feel that weather is one of the more fun and synergistic elements of Pet Battles, so at this point in time, we’re thinking of redesigning the elemental pet passive along the lines of a ~50% reduction in damage for the turn one is swapped in. Our goal being that we’d rather have a passive in place that increases the strategic depth of elemental pets, and is clear in its intention and functionality.

Keep in mind, we’re still evaluating the numbers and everything is subject to change, but we’d sincerely appreciate any constructive feedback you may have!
90 Human Paladin
12650
While I agree that the mechanics of current elemental passive is confusing hard to understand, especially in regards to what it affects and what does not, I feel that is a good one and one which has qute some strategic depth with regards to use in pet battles, both in favor of your elemental pets and against the enemy elemental pets - for example summoning a lightning storm/scorched earth against a beast then swapping elemental in, elemental will not take damage. Or using sunny day/moonlight/sandstorm with your non elemental pet against an elemental one.
90 Night Elf Warrior
19475
We're going to be buffing some pet passives in a future patch, and elementals are on the list. We feel that the elemental passive is currently too confusing in that it is somewhat ambiguous with regard to direct effects of weather, but not effects that are not directly related to weather.

I actually really like this change, so I'm glad something is being done about it!

Or using sunny day/moonlight/sandstorm with your non elemental pet against an elemental one.

I understand your point. But take a look at this:
http://www.wowhead.com/petability=453#used-by:0+8+1
http://www.wowhead.com/petability=404#used-by:0-8+1
The majority of the pets that learn these weather attacks.. are Elemental pets. - It just feels like you are buffing your enemy with them. At least that's the impression I get.
Edited by Rayzan on 24/04/2013 16:23 BST
90 Pandaren Monk
13055
23/04/2013 10:27Posted by Nakatoir
we’re thinking of redesigning the elemental pet passive along the lines of a ~50% reduction in damage for the turn one is swapped in.


Sounds pretty sweet.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13675
The elemental passive badly needs a redesign. As stated above, more often than not it feels like you are buffing your enemy. Elementals have two weathers naturally. Sunlight and Sandstorm, and in both cases the enemy will have a LOT more use out of them than the elemental itself.
90 Human Warlock
18495
23/04/2013 10:27Posted by Nakatoir
we’re thinking of redesigning the elemental pet passive along the lines of a ~50% reduction in damage for the turn one is swapped in.


That is a terrible idea. It just encourages swap-outs solely for the damage reduction, which will make any kind of attack combo next to useless when the enemy has an Elemental pet.

A Passive like that will screw up rotations and tactics for both teams. It's just going to make it awkward to play.
Edited by Archaos on 23/04/2013 14:53 BST
While not necessarily a change. I've noticed that a lot of these '+1 additional attacks if you go first' attacks don't get the additional attack they deserve when their first attack is blocked/dodged.

Such as Blitz (blocked by bubble):
http://i.imgur.com/fMS5chm.png

Lash (blocked by cocoon strike):
http://i.imgur.com/pJQqply.png

Rend (was stopped because the moth dodged the first attack):
http://i.imgur.com/XjisX3x.png

The only attack that seems to not have a problem is the flurry ability (used against bubble):
http://i.imgur.com/atHQUbW.png

Is this an intentional decision or a glitch/bug?
Community
As an update on what we have planned; Aquatic, Critters and Magic pets are the ones we are looking at right now! Here's what we're thinking and working on at the moment, and again, please share your thoughts and feedback:

Aquatic: Harmful DoTs reduced by 50% (up from 25%)
  • Aquatic-types currently reduce the effect of harmful damage over time abilities by 25%. Because few creatures have more than one DOT, this ends up being a less than steller damage reduction over the course of the battle. We feel increasing the effect to 50% should help aquatic pets benefit more from their passive.

  • Critters: Immune to CC completely
  • Critters currently reduce the duration of crowd control effects by one round, which makes fast critters significantly more powerful. We'd like critters of all speeds to benefit equally from their passive, so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.

  • Magic: Cannot be dealt more than 35% of total health in one move (down from 40%)
  • Magic-type creatures currently cannot take more than 40% of their maximum health as damage when struck. When balance changes were made to reduce the damage of some very heavy-hitting abilities, this passive was indirectly nerfed. We're thinking if we buff the effect to 35% of maximum health, that should compensate for previous adjustments.

  • Again, everything is subject to further adjustments, but our ultimate goal is to bring all passives up to the power level of some of the current favorites, such as Undead.
    90 Undead Warlock
    14465
    I feel some pet "racials" are good, but they end up working poorly depending on your situation.
    Take dragons for example, dragons deal 50% additional damage on the next round after bringing a target's health below 25%.

    However, a lot of the time I find myself wasting that buff. As it only lasts for 1 round. And I might need to heal or swap pets to not risk dying.

    The undead and mechanical racials are also almost identical, while the undead one is (imo) the best of the two.
    Edited by Azutael on 24/04/2013 12:16 BST
    90 Goblin Death Knight
    19480
    I wanna see who i´m against in PvP battle or atleast the real player model.
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    13675
    Excellent changes. Critters in particular needed it. But yeah, dragon racial is pretty underpowered now that they fixed the bug with it.
    90 Night Elf Warrior
    19475
    Critters currently reduce the duration of crowd control effects by one round, which makes fast critters significantly more powerful. We'd like critters of all speeds to benefit equally from their passive, so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.

    A lot of the 'rooting' abilities last for longer than one round. So making Critters completely immune to Crowd Control will further enhance the passive (This change will basically do more than just buff slow critters).

    I understand your point and I agree with it. But I'm just saying this, in case you might have missed it.

    But otherwise, like others have said. Excellent changes so far :)
    Edited by Rayzan on 24/04/2013 11:01 BST
    90 Human Paladin
    12650

    Or using sunny day/moonlight/sandstorm with your non elemental pet against an elemental one.

    I understand your point. But take a look at this:
    http://www.wowhead.com/petability=453#used-by:0+8+1
    http://www.wowhead.com/petability=404#used-by:0-8+1
    The majority of the pets that learn these weather attacks.. are Elemental pets. - It just feels like you are buffing your enemy with them. At least that's the impression I get.


    True, but when I spoke of sandstorm I meant it as an example of a skill to use to turn the enemy's elemental racial to your advantage.
    As for sunny weather, it's imo a crappy weather effect if you can't heal yourself, which holds true for most pets. For pets withouth healing abilities it basically just pushes you at 66% health from the start. I like to use it to get enemy pets to 25% health faster for http://www.wowhead.com/petability=800 and similar skills.
    On the other hand, darkness or http://www.wowhead.com/petability=204 with elementals pets against non elemental pet = win.
    Edited by Brent on 24/04/2013 21:25 BST
    90 Undead Warrior
    10725
    The Elemental change spoken of in the first post is bad. Though I can totally see the viewpoint I think it would undermine the bitter sweetness of the elemental passive. For instance they don't benefit from the positive effects either. For instance no immunity to stuns/roots in arcane storm, or no damage reduction from sandstorm.

    There are lots of pet passives that undermine certain powers, and even vice versa. These are interesting and good 'elements' to the pet battling system.

    The Aquatic change I can see the perspective but that feels like a Big step up. You are changing the magic passive by 5% (which by the way I totally agree with, it often feels Pointless at 40%). I realize it is more circumstantial but there are Lot of dots in the game too, and even pets who fight relying on dot damage. I think were such a change to be implemented it would make aquatics very powerful by default. That said I agree that 25% damage reduction on dots only is a bit... well trivial. The problem is that all others save critters passives are something you will often see in every fight. Theirs only matters if there's a dot user in the game and they Happen to clash with them, which isn't even guaranteed. Honestly I would suggest instead making it a flat damage reduction.

    The critter change is really difficult to consider. The thing is, there aren't any really powerful critters at the moment. But that has little to do with their racial but rather their move sets. But one assumes you'll keep making new pets, and thus new critters will emerge, and going by current showings new gen pets > old gen most of the time. So when that critter comes out with a good move set immunity to all CC could be a bit... extreme. Like Aquatic I think the reason there' an air of dissatisfaction with the critter passive is that it is something you may not see at all over several pet fights. Rare in pvp I think, but who even really tries to CC a pet anyway? It's usually a rabbit who is dodging, digging, digging, dodging, you just want to whack the little snot when he pops his head up! (I miss whack-a-mole! =D ). I can't say I approve or disapprove. Right now, sounds good critters are the most underused pet type, but I really put that down to the fact that they are 90% rats, rabbits and cockroaches (well 50%, that's still an awful lot! =p) and their move sets are really subpar compared to other types.

    Still love seeing you mulling these types of changes over! GJ Blizz! =D
    90 Dwarf Hunter
    7855
    Blizzy, come on dont change the Weather passive, you will ruin all of my tacts, and i dont like to start over.
    90 Pandaren Monk
    12945
    I think the main reason why critters aren't played more in pvp pet battles is because like almost every pet has some kind of beast attack. I think elemental pets are about only ones who usually don't have beast attacks, and even they have some with them.
    90 Night Elf Warrior
    19475
    This might be old info, but it hasn't been taken up here yet, so I'm just going to write it.

    Firstly, I think the Elemental passive idea put forward (by our blue here) is quite poor. It's just such a random idea that (in my opinion) doesn't really have much to do with the 'Elemental' type.

    The current passive of Elemental pets (aka that they ignore all weather effects) is actually kinda interesting. It's too weak (in my opinion), but to give Elemental pets a connection to the weather is actually great (in my opinion). - So perhaps you should build on that instead?

    Anyway, here is the idea. What about buffing Elemental pets during weather effects?
    Take the Sandstorm for example. What if Sandstorm reduced all damage done by X amount and gave a 10% accuracy reduction to all but Elemental pets. - See? Now Sandstorm is a better buff for Elementals than other pets.

    Or take the Scourged Earth for example. You could change that into dealing an X amount of damage to all active pets but Elemental pets, each round.

    And to give a last example. Sunlight increases the HP by all pets by 50% and increases healing done by 25%. - What if it did the same to Elementals but increased the healing done (to Elementals) by 35%?

    The idea is to buff the weather effects for Elementals.

    Anyway, this might not be a new idea, but it isn't up here yet, so I thought I would add it :)
    Aquatic-types currently reduce the effect of harmful damage over time abilities by 25%. Because few creatures have more than one DOT, this ends up being a less than steller damage reduction over the course of the battle. We feel increasing the effect to 50% should help aquatic pets benefit more from their passive.
    90 Pandaren Monk
    12945
    Umm Rayzan, you realize that scorched earth already does what you suggest? I personally think perfect fix to elemental racial would be to just make them immune to -negative- weather effects only.
    90 Night Elf Warrior
    19475
    Umm Rayzan, you realize that scorched earth already does what you suggest? I personally think perfect fix to elemental racial would be to just make them immune to -negative- weather effects only.

    Yeah, that was actually a bad example.

    I also agree about the second part. Elementals' racial should just ignore the negative weather effects, but I was wondering if that would be too weak, now that Blizzard are somewhat buffing the racials a bit...?
    (Hence the third example where Elementals gain a little extra compared to the other types)
    Anyway, that's not really me to decide. Overall, I just think this idea is better than the one proposed by the blue.
    Edited by Rayzan on 05/06/2013 22:01 BST
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