Heroic Scenario ilvl 516 Loot, esp. Helm and Weapon

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32 Tauren Druid
10010
They all scale up these days so gear without a socket doesn't give anything less than 1 with a socket.


sorry not entirely true.

while those 2 items then may be "equal" gear with an socket are usually better due to being able to gem the stat you want
90 Human Death Knight
17200
sorry not entirely true.

while those 2 items then may be "equal" gear with an socket are usually better due to being able to gem the stat you want


And the fact that socket bonuses are free. Items with sockets end up being as good as items of half a tier above with the same stats..
But that is not the case for 2 slots: Helmets where based on class meta slots might be worh even 2 full tiers of stats...and weapons were weapon damage/spell power scaling is so absurd that dwarf everything.
90 Orc Warrior
13695
26/05/2013 19:58Posted by Weightlifter
It also acted as a big "Reset" button which completely obsoleted the previous raid tier instead of turning it into an efficient catch-up mechanism; which is a shame given that they nerfed it to make that fairly viable and not-too-brutal for PuGs. I think it would have been more fun to have MsV/HoF/TOES as the efficient way for players getting their fresh 90 alt up to ToT minimum instead of feeling compelled to gamble via the LFR loot slot machine (probably less complaints about RNG too if the LFR loot wasn't so attractive)

Because Blizz assumed that all "normal mode raiders" had a full set of 496 gear upgraded to 504. That was however very far from the truth and actually impossible. Here is a blue quote from the US forums:

It's our expectation that Heroic raiders should have no interest in 5.2 Raid Finder gear. If you have item level 509+ gear from 5.0/5.1 Heroics, then the question is, why would you want item level 502 gear from the Raid Finder? Players wearing normal mode gear might find some slight upgrades in the Raid Finder in the first few weeks, but it's a safe bet that any gear that was upgraded with Valor Points will probably beat anything found in the Throne of Thunder Raid Finder.


Reading that inflicts physical pain in my head...
90 Orc Warrior
13695
All items that have no sockets have the base stats boosted.

Like if I get bracers with 1k stamina 900 intellect and 700 crit + 1 socket, another bracers of same ilvl without socket would have 1k stamina 1k intellect and 750 crit.

They all scale up these days so gear without a socket doesn't give anything less than 1 with a socket.


If that was true the 516 helmets would need to have about 3 times as many stats as Normal mode ToT helms. Legendary meta gem wants a word with you.
The developers didn't want these items (Heroic Scenario item level 516 loot) to be best in slot. They would like to see them replaced by more powerful items (even if those items are of the same ilevel).

Yeah it's quite silly that none of the scenario items have any sockets, Especially the helm.


These items have random enchantments, and there are some technical limitations to have random stats plus sockets on them. The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.
90 Human Death Knight
8640
These items have random enchantments, and there are some technical limitations to have random stats plus sockets on them. The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.


Don't the bracers from Durumu & Jin'Rohk have random enchants and sockets? What would be the difference with loot from a bag?
90 Night Elf Hunter
17255
Could you please confirm if Eye of the Black Prince is not supposed to be usable on 516 weapons by design?
Reborn weapons did get hotfixed after all.
Edited by Thirn on 27/05/2013 16:50 BST
90 Night Elf Monk
6525
Imo the items are too high ilvl for the effort you have to put in. Hc scenarios are easy to the extent that after 20mins max playtime you can get an item nearly as good as a raid item. They are just not hard, I have never wiped on them, they are basically like normal scenarios. While I agree it's good to have ways for people to gear up outside of raids, I think a lower ilvl would have been more appropriate, maybe 505 or so, or 502 like lfrs. This would be an alternative way to gear up but also not reduce the impact of getting normal lvl raid drops for raiders.

I mean, a 6 ilvl increase for a 3hr raid which is based on weeks of wiping and progress and the assembly of a reliable group of people in a guild, vs a 5 second lfg then faceroll scenario.

If non-raiders don't want to get too far behind in gear lvl, then farm your valor each week (which takes 5ish hours of gameplay, if this grind is too much then it can also be solved by heroic scenarios which give a lot of valor which is fine).

If you do this and do some lfr then u will never get that far behind normal raiders, and even heroic raiders wont be too far off.

Basically it just takes the reward away from normal raids too much. May as well just have your guild sack off raiding and gear up from heroic scenarios, then do heroic raids when you are geared up (yes I realise that technically learning the encounters and such on normal will be much better etc but u can see my point from a purely gearing up perspective).

Everyone knows one of the funnest parts of raiding is getting that great item as a reward for your hard work and dedication, it should be 'yeah buddy! I'm gonna be visibly stronger now' instead of 'oh slight upgrade, won't really be noticable though'.

And I know Blizz may say 'they are not for raiders they are for non-raiders' or 'you don't have to do them', to that I say that realistically who is not going to do their daily hc scenario? It takes no time and give u chance to upgrade a slot nicely. I bet most normal raiders are doing an hc scen each day, and how long until most ppl have a 516 in each slot minimum?
Edited by Maeldune on 27/05/2013 17:46 BST
90 Human Death Knight
17200
Basically it just takes the reward away from normal raids too much. May as well just have your guild sack off raiding and gear up from heroic scenarios, then do heroic raids when you are geared up.


Here is one thing: Heroic scenarios have nothing to do with it. Valor and extremely bloated loot tables do. I agree that raiding if you are in a raiding normals guild is not worth it and I stopped it myself..because I think that crawling for 3 to 5 months to gain virtually nothing since the chances of seeing something useful drop with the 3-5 kills I will have per boss is actually not worth my time. But I took this decision even before heroic scenarios were introduced.

And I know Blizz may say 'they are not for raiders they are for non-raiders' or 'you don't have to do them', to that I say that realistically who is not going to do their daily hc scenario? It takes no time and give u chance to upgrade a slot nicely. I bet most normal raiders are doing an hc scen each day, and how long until most ppl have a 516 in each slot minimum?


Who is not going to do it? I don't..I did 2 heroic scenarios and that is it and actually I am a non raider. You know why? Because here is the list of slots I do not have an item better than 516 :
helm: where due to the lack of meta gem socket and me having the legendary meta's I do not gain anything
shoulder: Where first of all I can use it to complete my 4pt set bonus in combination with helm and 2 normal tier pieces I already have from Nalak. And I need one week of lfr to get exalted with shado-pan assault that will open me the chance of 522 shoulder anyway.
One ring: There are no rings on those bags
Trinkets: There are no trinkets in the bags

And finaly the only slot I can gain something: Boots.

So I will waste my time in order to hope I will get boots...with the right random enchant to get anything out of it. and then what much of a difference do boots do. Practically zero:)
90 Night Elf Monk
6525
Yeah so you are already too geared to be affected in a big way. What if you still have a lot of slots u need to fill with better-than-502 gear? These people are the people who will be affected in the ways I mentioned.
Edited by Maeldune on 27/05/2013 18:33 BST
2 Human Warrior
0
@Jezzebelle
Another item you could get would be Thunder Bastion Seal or Doubtcrusher Seal from the heroic scenarios as you can get rings. Not much of a consolation I know, but a quick way to get some valor, and gear is at least upgradable again. Still no great incentive to run one I know. One of the rings you could get will also most probably have tanking "random stats" and the other DPS "random stats" on it as there are only two strength/stamina rings in the loot table.
Edited by Kalladies on 27/05/2013 20:13 BST
90 Human Paladin
13795
I have the 502 tier LFR helm on my mage. I was sooo happy when I got the 516 helmet, but then i realised that it had NO sockets at all.. Sacrificing my tierbonus for no meta + some !@#$ty stats? No thanks.

It was quite horrible :(
90 Human Death Knight
17200
@Jezzebelle
Another item you could get would be Thunder Bastion Seal or Doubtcrusher Seal from the heroic scenarios as you can get rings


You are right so thanks for the correction. Not that will change anything for me.

What my point is..is that those scenarios are here to help people that for some reason fall behind( e.g. my guild recruited some folks recently that are on about ilvl 490 -500). The heroic scenarios are there to help those folks catch up to the levels of where the people that did not stop raiding (like me) are. because expecting those guys to go for a month of lfr and valor collection before they are up to speed..is not going to happen.

And although those scenarios are of basically no use for me, I understand that in a game with so many people play, not everything will be and if this helps others it is fine with me.
90 Pandaren Shaman
19495
These items have random enchantments, and there are some technical limitations to have random stats plus sockets on them. The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.


http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/71421

This helm seems to disagree with technical limitations
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14805
26/05/2013 15:06Posted by Turtleshell
I think it would have been more fun to have MsV/HoF/TOES as the efficient way for players getting their fresh 90 alt up to ToT minimum instead of feeling compelled to gamble via the LFR loot slot machine (probably less complaints about RNG too if the LFR loot wasn't so attractive)

Ye fun try do it on a low pop realm where you allready strugle to get enough for the current raid let alone the older ones.


Cross realm makes it easily doable.
90 Human Mage
15980
These items have random enchantments, and there are some technical limitations to have random stats plus sockets on them. The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.


and yet this limitation didn't exist in firelands, hmm rather strange that, 2 year old content was able to have it yet current day conetent can't have it, (for reference i am talking about the warlock lookalike tier helm that dropped off lord ryolith whitch not only had a normal socket/meta socket and socket bonus, but also random enchants).
Edited by Sozin on 28/05/2013 00:36 BST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11205
I would not mind if they added just a metagem socket for helm.
70 Troll Druid
15260
27/05/2013 21:28Posted by Teamental
These items have random enchantments, and there are some technical limitations to have random stats plus sockets on them. The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.


http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/71421

This helm seems to disagree with technical limitations


Also the helm, or other similar items are not from 'lootbags' either.
11 Goblin Priest
16415
The developers definitely agree that the helms might be particularly unattractive without a meta socket.


MIGHT BE? this once more shows how far blizzard has gone away from the player base... every 502 Helm with socket is automatically better so why did you create this loot that noone will care for in the first place?

Must be like this:
Blizz1: mh... what can do instead of dungeons?
Blizz2: how about HC Scenarios?
Blizz1: Sounds like an idea but noone likes scenarios so how do we make it atractive
Blizz2: by putting ilevel 516 gear without sockets in failbags for doing hc scenarios...
Edited by Shrapnella on 28/05/2013 10:34 BST
90 Night Elf Druid
15840
27/05/2013 16:25Posted by Draztal
The developers didn't want these items (Heroic Scenario item level 516 loot) to be best in slot. They would like to see them replaced by more powerful items (even if those items are of the same ilevel).

Who are these things for then, anyway? The item level is higher than LFR, but lower than normal raids. It stands to reason that this is intended for people who are trying to upgrade their LFR (or worse) items for use in normals, but in these normals they're pretty much useless because they can't have the legendary items in them that items of a much lower level can have, making lower level items actually better than higher level ones. How does this make any sense to the player base you've been building?
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