LFR loot restriction, why so selfish.

90 Orc Warrior
8010
because people who put absolutely no effort into their character (you) shouldn't be wearing tier gear, it devalues it.


yet, the opener achieved more than you
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90 Draenei Mage
3845
Solution seems simple to me:

1. Give the LFR token pieces a different set bonus with greatly reduced effects.

2. Make this incompatible with the normal/heroic set bonus.
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90 Pandaren Mage
8815
It's not as much about "being selfish" as it is that sometimes especially at the start of an expansion a lot of people feel they NEED to run LFR if they want to stay competitive. The tier set bonusses on some sets are simply too good to pass up.


This.
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90 Pandaren Mage
8815
Solution seems simple to me:

1. Give the LFR token pieces a different set bonus with greatly reduced effects.

2. Make this incompatible with the normal/heroic set bonus.


Or this.

To OP: This has nothing to do with screwing over players on a limited time constraint such as yourself and everything to do with fubar pve progression for normal mod raiders in particular.
Edited by Mspyropanda on 11/06/2013 11:25 BST
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18 Night Elf Druid
0
I was just reading on mmo-champ that there could be loot restrictions on LFR in the near future, items such as tier tokens.

I am a dad, have a full time job, a husband and LFR is the only way I can raid. I respect others and their concerns over free loot in LFR but please let it go already.

Opportunity for all to see content and earn the new tier is great, don't take it away because a percentage of the player base don't want me to get loot because I don't have time to raid.

I used to raid, I'm not a bad player (ish) and although LFR has its faults I love it. Kind of like Frankenstein loved his monster.

Don't hurt players like myself pandering ( see what i did there) to selfish players who for some reason don't want me to enjoy the game. I pay the same moola as them each month.

Different I level gear is the solution, it's not broken... Don't try fix it.


I also do have a job, two kids 4 & 7, a wife, friends and I manage to raid 3 days a week for 4 hours each (20:00 - 24:00).

Stop with the lame excuses seriously, if you have a hobby, you make time for it. One of my mine is gaming so I make time for it in my busy schedule, and there is many more hobbies I participate in, like remote controlled models etc. There's plenty of time if you are willing, without neglecting your family and friends.

Learn to organize your life. Make minor sacrifices so you can do what you love, for example my workday starts at 7:00 in the morning, so on raid days I get about 6h sleep, but I can manage without problems. My kids are in bed at 19:30 so I don't miss quality time with them, if anything the job takes away the time with my kids, my wife is also a fan of video games so there is a shared hobby, even so, she has no problem with it - as for friends and family and quality time with them, there's 7 days in a week, don't have to hang with them every day.
Edited by Aallegra on 11/06/2013 14:11 BST
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Community
Our very own “Crabby” recently tweeted (#1 #2) about loot options in Flexible Raids. Just in case some of you missed it, we’re considering the possibility of having certain pieces of loot drop only in Flexible, Normal and Heroic raids.

We know that Tier and Legendary items are both very appealing to all types of raiders, but removing either of those from LFR at this point in time would tamper with the consistency of this expansion, there are a lot of players that rely solely on LFR to get those items and they are expecting LFR to continue to have the same sort of philosophy and design until at least the end of the expansion. Drastic and unexpected changes that impact negatively on parts of the player base is something we should try to avoid as much as possible.

So, for now, instead of making tier pieces exclusive to F/N/H raids, we’re considering the possibility of giving exclusivity to F/N/H on certain valuable pieces that don’t belong to any Tier. We know this isn’t exactly what some of you have been asking for, and that is doesn’t solve the issue of players going into LFR for a chance to get a piece of Tier, but it does provide more value and exclusivity/prestige to raids other than LFR without undermining players that have been relying exclusively on LFR as their main endgame progression experience since the start of the expansion.

I’d also like to point out that LFR content has always been staggered, and FR follows that same pattern but at an accelerated pace; that will probably make it less likely for raiders to run LFR in search for Tier drops, unless of course, they still prefer the accessibility of LFR over Flexible raids. I know that being time efficient is what drives many players, and having tier bonuses at the cost of a lower ilvl might still look like a better option than having to organize a Flexible raid. In the end we like to give players more options, and despite what some might say, I don’t think they will be overwhelming with the addition of Flexible Raids.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
12305
May I ask what the reason is for the stagger in Flexi? Makes sense in LFR, but not so much for Flexi imo!

You didn't exactly say the reason for flexi, only LFR, but maybe its one and the same?
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90 Pandaren Monk
11155
I think what taepsilum means to say is yes you people that cant raid you will sufferrrr good thing i dont work 50 hours a week all day light hours and on a dying realm that would laugh at late night raids ohhhh wait i am
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2 Night Elf Hunter
0
why not make the ilvl of lfr gear lower so that hc/normal raiders dont have to run it anymore but the lfr raiders still get the upgrades ? wouldnt that fix all problems? lfr raiders still get the path of progression and can still get all tier gear etc and normal raiders dont feel forced to run it anymore.

lfr gear same ilvl as last tier hc is crazy (MSV HC gear has the same ilvl as ToT LFR)
Edited by Aight on 11/06/2013 18:00 BST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12170

So, for now, instead of making tier pieces exclusive to F/N/H raids, we’re considering the possibility of giving exclusivity to F/N/H on certain valuable pieces that don’t belong to any Tier. We know this isn’t exactly what some of you have been asking for, and that is doesn’t solve the issue of players going into LFR for a chance to get a piece of Tier, but it does provide more value and exclusivity/prestige to raids other than LFR without undermining players that have been relying exclusively on LFR as their main endgame progression experience since the start of the expansion.


That sounds reasonable. I think it would be a big mistake to take out tier/legendary progression from LFR, and I hope it doesn't become the case in future expansions.

Individual items with unique looks to them (weapons, hats etc.) would be fine only being available from flex/norm/heroic, since they're ultimately just a cosmetic difference with a different stat spreadsheet tacked on.

Tier and legendary bonuses are fun, though.

They often change the way you play your character to some degree, adding compelling little gameplay tweaks and very tangible power boosts that make it feel like your character is getting stronger, rather than just beefing up the numbers that appear on your screen.

I'm all for adding more prestige rewards to non-LFR versions of raids to reward the players who put in the time and effort for them, but I think taking away fun tier/legendary bonuses from LFR would be a step in the wrong direction, and would only result in excluding the casual playerbase from one of the most interesting and gameplay-altering gearing choices.
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10/06/2013 12:40Posted by Highlatency
I am a dad, have a full time job, a husband and LFR is the only way I can raid. I

In other words, "I can't raid."

Then why are you trying to? Do heroics, they're as difficult as LFR. Should be more than enough. As most of the effort when it comes to raiding comes from farming gold for enchants and gems, all the time you spent on LFR can easily be put on a slow-paced, casual raiding guild. If you don't have time for even that (just what, a couple of hours a week?), then you barely have enough time to open YouTube to view the content via movie, let alone do it yourself on any difficulty.
Edited by Ïheal on 11/06/2013 15:02 BST
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Community
May I ask what the reason is for the stagger in Flexi? Makes sense in LFR, but not so much for Flexi imo!

You didn't exactly say the reason for flexi, only LFR, but maybe its one and the same?

Same reason as LFR I would say. We want to make a distinction between Normal and Heroic from the rest, players shouldn’t feel very compelled to go into LFR or even FR if they’re into more serious raiding, it’s still ok if there’s some appeal to them just as long as it doesn’t feel absolutely mandatory, especially a few weeks after LFR has opened.

I don’t like to generalize that much and I think that sometimes I inadvertently fall into the trap of extreme generalization. What I mean is, not all raiders are the same. There’s players raiding normal at a very slow pace, others that clear content as fast as it opens, so I can’t really say FR or LFR will be appealing to normal or heroic raiders, I can only imagine that guilds with slower progress will probably go into FR and LFR to help with their progression much more often than a guild that clears all normal content in a week, so I suppose we can say that FR and LFR shouldn’t be very appealing to anyone at a moderate to fast progression rate, but it’s ok if others that are struggling a bit more or those that can’t commit to guild raiding schedules for more than 1 or 2 days a week feel more inclined to try FR and LFR.
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90 Undead Priest
2185
Is this your main, OP? If so, you ran ToT lfr exactly once ... you got two tier items ... do you feel you have accomplished something? Do you feel you have gotten a nice reward for your effort?

So, Blizzard should cater to you and staying on the course of no exclusivity and rewarding even the players who can't be bothered to put in any effort or time with everything this game has to offer (tier pieces, boss kills, achievments, and all other non-raid content)? You get everything but raiders who put in more time/practice can't have more reward or content for them (and no, nhc and hc are difficulties, not new content)?

And you don't see how this is selfish on your side? I don't fault you for not seeing how this is hurting the game, because you may not know any better, but here is a video you could watch and maybe you'll start to understand why LFR is so bad for the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas
Edited by Asaryel on 11/06/2013 15:21 BST
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90 Orc Rogue
15090
How is not getting tier tokens going to devalue the experience you allready achieve by seeing the content via LFR?

It is almost the same as saying "LFR gear dosnt have sockets so whats the point now...i want too see all the content"

...dosn't make sense

side note...neither for or against the discussion
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90 Orc Warrior
13695
May I ask what the reason is for the stagger in Flexi? Makes sense in LFR, but not so much for Flexi imo!

You didn't exactly say the reason for flexi, only LFR, but maybe its one and the same?

Same reason as LFR I would say. We want to make a distinction between Normal and Heroic from the rest, players shouldn’t feel very compelled to go into LFR or even FR if they’re into more serious raiding, it’s still ok if there’s some appeal to them just as long as it doesn’t feel absolutely mandatory, especially a few weeks after LFR has opened.


Well, it certainly did feel mandatory at the start of 5.2. Not just for tier pieces, but also for trinkets and a weapon that was a considerable upgrade over the previous tiers 496 weapons.

I surely do hope this will not be repeated in 5.4. Normal ToT gear SHOULD be above 5.4 LFR gear, valor upgraded ToT gear SHOULD be above 5.4 FR gear. That was what we were promised would happen at the start of the expansion. Make it happen. Please.

I don’t like to generalize that much and I think that sometimes I inadvertently fall into the trap of extreme generalization. What I mean is, not all raiders are the same. There’s players raiding normal at a very slow pace, others that clear content as fast as it opens, so I can’t really say FR or LFR will be appealing to normal or heroic raiders, I can only imagine that guilds with slower progress will probably go into FR and LFR to help with their progression much more often than a guild that clears all normal content in a week, so I suppose we can say that FR and LFR shouldn’t be very appealing to anyone at a moderate to fast progression rate, but it’s ok if others that are struggling a bit more or those that can’t commit to guild raiding schedules for more than 1 or 2 days a week feel more inclined to try FR and LFR.

But whats the reason for even allowing normal/heroic raiders access to LFR/FR? The content is clearly not designed with those kind of players in mind, it only serves the purpose of burning out content faster for them and them alone.

Now you can tell us that it's optional all you like, but the fact of the matter is that a raider will do what a raider can do. If i can spend 30 mins in my spare time on a slight chance at an upgrade that will affect my performance in raids, i will gladly do that despite my hatred for LFR. It's what teamplayers do.

Also, whatever happened to the old statement of "Any player should only be able to loot each boss once per week"? Let me guess, outdated?
Edited by Grimreaper on 11/06/2013 15:26 BST
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90 Human Paladin
14715
Dejadeux, confusing real life with a video game can cause problems

As i mentioned in my original post i do recognise peoples concern on the free loot stigma that comes with LFR.

Not everyone in LFR wants a free ride and not everyone wants free loot. I like to do my best and i dont expect the same loot as people who commit more time to the game, but, why do people commit more time demand people with less time lose out

Serious raiders do not need LFR gear to progress
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90 Night Elf Hunter
12305
May I ask what the reason is for the stagger in Flexi? Makes sense in LFR, but not so much for Flexi imo!

You didn't exactly say the reason for flexi, only LFR, but maybe its one and the same?

Same reason as LFR I would say.


Ok buddy, thank you for your reply.

By the way, I am a heroic raider and I am looking forward to Flexi big time. I can't wait to have a fun raid helping people (cross realm also) with my geared character. I love helping people out but I feel really restricted right now as as soon as I get saved on my main, that's it - I can't do any more.

But please consider using the old LFR style of looting with a few additional rules to make it feel fair and like 'real' raiding. I think the seperation of LFR and Flexi will be important to define itself, if it is using the same loot as LFR it will be hard for people to take it too seriously imo.

I posted an idea of how to fix the drop amount here http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7616872018?page=20#385

Thank you for your time once again.
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90 Undead Priest
2185
No, you people who commit almost no time and effort demanded to get the same loot as people who commit more time and effort and blizzard listend to you - that's the whole dilemma.

It was you who cried for the same rewards for not the same effort.

It seems in the past you always found a way to raid, even without lfr.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
12305
No, you people who commit almost no time and effort demanded to get the same loot as people who commit more time and effort and blizzard listend to you - that's the whole dilemma.

It was you who cried for the same rewards for not the same effort.

It seems in the past you always found a way to raid, even without lfr.


Who are you talking to? Does it really anger you that much that people can have an item with the same name as you?
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90 Human Death Knight
17200
11/06/2013 15:01Posted by Ïheal
Then why are you trying to? Do heroics, they're as difficult as LFR. Should be more than enough. As most of the effort when it comes to raiding comes from farming gold for enchants and gems, all the time you spent on LFR can easily be put on a slow-paced, casual raiding guild.


Here is a thing: While you might be able to be in a slow progressing guild.. that is sure.
But it is not effective. The combination of rng in loot drops and valor items being locked in rep that requires kills means that unless you are in a guild that can be ahead of the lfr opening schedule, or it is not worth your time at all to bother with normal raiding.
This is exactly the reason why I said bye bye to this tier. I deemed it not worth my time.
Edited by Jezzebelle on 11/06/2013 15:35 BST
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