5.4 PTR Patch Notes concerning PvP

90 Human Paladin
15805
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/54_PTR_Coming_Soon-12_06_2013

In this thread I will be listing all non-class changes that concern PvP. I will also give my opinion on it. I will update this thread whenever there is new information. Last time we had a lot of good feedback, let's try the same. As always, keep it constructive to provide Blizzard feedback which they can actually work with.
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PTR Disclaimers

- Please keep in mind that the notes below are not final, and a great deal could change before the release of patch 5.4.
- Not all the content listed may be available for testing or may only be available during a limited testing window during the 5.4 PTR. When the PTR is available, keep an eye on the PTR Discussion forum for further details.

Do keep this in mind, please. I often see people that don't seem to realize it is just the testing phase of a patch.

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Update 01/07/13

Due to the length of this post exceeding the limit of 10000 characters, I will do it in a different post and just give the link here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7646754860?page=8#153

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Update 21/06/13 -- Haven't been able to update a lot because of exams. I may have missed something, feel free to point this out.

Arena Rating scaling in the 2v2 bracket has been tuned to be consistent with the 3v3 bracket.

Nice. The current rating scaling in 2s really is discouraging for a lot of players. Hopefully this will be fixed now, as well as allowing Arena Master to be obtained at higher level again.

Elite versions of Season 14 Grievous are now available as a mark of prestige for players that are able to attain a personal rating of 2000 and earn 27,000 Conquest Points in the current season. Pricing per piece remains the same but the previous piece requirement has been removed.

Alright, so in addition to what I said earlier in this post (you can read it below), Elite gear will now also require to have earned 27000 Conquest Points this season. Now I don't really see the point (ba-dum tss) in this, but it's not that big of a deal. It just means that we can't get it until later on in the season.

Atleast, I hope that is what it means. It could also mean that you can get Elite gear by either having achieved 2000 rating OR earned 27000 Conquest Points this season. This would not be a good thing in my opinion, but I don't think this is the case anyway.

For Arena matches lasting longer than 15 minutes, one of the teams will receive a buff called "The Crowd Chose You" that increases damage, critical strike chance, stealth detection, and reduces damage taken. The buff is awarded based on the following criteria.
Team with the largest number of players alive.
Team that brought an enemy player closest to death (lowest health).

Nice change. Sometimes upon entering an arena and looking at your team's and the opponent's team compositions you just knew you would have an endless match. This will bring some action into those kind of fights. However, I suggest adding it to 2s, but leaving it out of 3s. I think the system is very vulnerable to abuse in 3v3-situations.

Essentially a great change, but will still have to test this on PTR before totally supporting it.

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Update 14/06/13

Just sharing a tweet from Brian H. that you might find particularly interesting:

Q: “The new pvp gear is 522, but whats the point if it will get scaled down to 496?”
Holinka: “[url="https://twitter.com/holinka/status/345242167909945346"]The ceiling will slowly go up next season (e.g. 1 point per week) but PvP gear will be exempt from the ceiling.[/url]”

What do you guys think of this change?

I think this will be really good. As there is a new season, the item level cap in instanced PvP needs to be increased, or getting new gear would have no point. The item level of new PvP gear is 522, so it makes sense the cap is this same number as well. However, if we would allow anyone to enter instanced PvP zones with 522 gear, PvE gear would definitely dominate because our current season's PvP gear is only item level 496.

This change should make sure that PvP gear will still be better in PvP.
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Season 14 Grievous gear is now available. Elite versions of Grievous gear will require a rating of 2000 to purchase.

A very nice change.

Right now, Elite gear is handed out for having earned a certain amount of Conquest Points. This can be done by just getting your cap every week, which isn't really tough or hard to do. It's not very Elite, at all.

If players have to reach X amount of rating in arena or rated battlegrounds (preferable only arena in my opinion, because of boosting, win-trading and dodgy stuff happening in rated battlegrounds), the Elite gear will get back some of it's past glory and be prestigious once again.

When season 13 started, patch 5.2 was live. There was a gear gap between players that played a huge factor in winning or losing. Therefore, stat and item level difference were removed, to promote an equal playground for players. The idea was that other factors, such as skill, would play a bigger role, instead of a player getting 'outgeared'. This worked quite well, in my opinion.

However, in 5.3, Blizzard introduced the scaling system that downscales any gear, with an item level of 497 or above, back to item level 496 when entering a PvP instance (battlegrounds, arena and rated battlegrounds).

In my opinion, with the scaling system active and the rating requirement back on Elite gear in 5.4, the gear should also have increased stats and item level to be more of a 'real' reward, instead of just cosmetic. It would also allow PvP-geared players to be more competitive against PvE-geared players in World PvP, which seems kind of fair to me.

Zultajie@Defias Brotherhood said:
What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every tim

I agree with this. It would be nice to be able to get an item for your Elite set every X amount of rating. An example would be every 50-100 rating. This would motivate mid-rating players to keep trying to get higher. However, this will obviously only work if Elite gear has a significant stat and item level increase and not just cosmetic (imagine a blue coloured normal PvP set and then you get a pair of red coloured Elite boots..).

------------- https://twitter.com/ThornassEU/status/345040918535086080
Asked Holinka about his opinion on this here.

Season 13 Tyrannical gear can now be purchased with Honor Points.

I really hope the Season 14 Tyrannical gear will be the same as Season 13 Tyrannical gear, as it suggests here. Players should get a fresh start and therefore be able to get equal gear for arena as last season's players through Honor.

Season 12 Malevolent gear can now be crafted.

I like that Blizzard keeps updating the crafted gear. This doesn't only mean that alts can easily get their hands on some competitive gear, but also that there is a steady interest in professions and auction house activity throughout the expansion, instead of just at the beginning.

There is not much to comment on, but I will update it as soon as there is more information available.
Edited by Thornassx on 01/07/2013 20:44 BST
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91 Human Rogue
9135
New elite gear requiring 2000 rating instead of 2200? I bet that will encourage more people to go for it.
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90 Human Paladin
15805
New elite gear requiring 2000 rating instead of 2200? I bet that will encourage more people to go for it.

Yep, I think so too!
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90 Dwarf Warlock
7585
New Area: Timeless Isle


Wow, another arena! I hope it is such a success as The Tiger's Peak. They really did a goob job there.

There is not much to comment on, but I will update it as soon as there is more information available.


its area, not arena
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90 Troll Druid
0
With the scaling and all idd i do not mind the elite having rating requirement, on the other hand its really nice idd:)

What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time
Edited by Zultajie on 12/06/2013 09:08 BST
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90 Human Paladin
15805
12/06/2013 09:00Posted by Xezbeth
New Area: Timeless Isle


Wow, another arena! I hope it is such a success as The Tiger's Peak. They really did a goob job there.

There is not much to comment on, but I will update it as soon as there is more information available.


its area, not arena

Err, we are just going to pretend I did not write that.
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90 Human Paladin
15805
What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time

That would actually be a nice idea. Now that that the stat difference has no influence on arena, it means that it doesn't cause a barrier at a certain rating like it did before.
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90 Troll Druid
0
That would actually be a nice idea. Now that that the stat difference has no influence on arena, it means that it doesn't cause a barrier at a certain rating like it did before.


Exactly:)
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90 Orc Hunter
9735
the t16 pve sets 4pieces and 2 pieces

lols
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Community
12/06/2013 08:33Posted by Thornassx
Do keep this in mind, please. I often see people that don't seem to realize it is just the testing phase of a patch.
I think Ghostcrawler said it best with this quote: "Take data-mining and even PTR itself with a grain of salt. PTR is our Petri dish and not every experiment works."

Please provide as much constructive feedback as you can on the changes listed in the patch notes, we will do our best to update them as frequently as possible for you to read.
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90 Human Paladin
15805
the t16 pve sets 4pieces and 2 pieces

lols

I don't think these will go live in their current state in rated PvP.
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Community
12/06/2013 10:19Posted by Thornassx
I don't think these will go live in their current state in rated PvP.
You're correct, the numbers on set bonuses are actually just place holders for the moment. At this time try focusing your feedback for set bonuses around the actual mechanics rather than the tuning of the numbers.
Edited by Nakatoir on 12/06/2013 10:39 BST
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100 Human Paladin
15875
Burden of Guilt has been replaced with a new talent called Evil is a Point of View, which allows the Paladin to use Turn Evil on players and beasts.


Is a kinda odd move, I assume it's to give paladins some CC even when you're playing with DoT classes? Weird change either way. Don't really like it.

Hand of Purity now reduces damage taken from harmful periodic effects by 80% (up from 70%) and reduces damage taken from harmful periodic effects that cannot be prevented by immunities by 40% (up from 0%).


It's not going to be better then Clemency, the talents don't need to be nerfed - Clemency needs to be nerfed. It's overpowered as hell, remove double BoP of it and we got a balanced ability.

Unbreakable Spirit has been simplified. It now reduces the cooldown on Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Lay on Hands by 50%.


This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.

For rets.

Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12.


Good move, now make Holy Avenger and Wings put an ICD on eachother so you can't CD stack them but you can chain them for less burst and more sustained damage.

Inquisition now lasts 20 seconds per charge of Holy Power consumed, up from 10 seconds.


Not so sure about this, this just means more TVs which is more damage, rets do not need more of that right now.

Also a question, why are you removing the passive damage reduction from most classes? Is there any overall damage nerfs coming in 5.4?
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90 Human Priest
9885
The 15% reduction removal to shadowform needs to be revert asap. This can't go live. Spriests are already trained and demolished by any melee/melee or melee/hunter team running around because of the huge damage they can do to us.
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90 Human Warlock
8805
Largest concern here is the removal of passive damage reduction.

The biggest issue in PvP at the moment is specifically (imho) that it is increasingly CD based. I don't think I've landed a kill in MoP arena, without DS or some other damage boosting CD up..

Basically, Defensives are not strong enough against damage cooldowns, but Defensives are too strong against normal damage.

This results in very, very long games in castercleave vs castercleave, and very very short games in Hunter/x/x games. It's all based around "pop CDs, try land a cc on healer and get a kill". No kill? turtle for 2 mins until CDs are available again, because you wont be able to get a kill anyway.

I've landed 30sec+ coordinated CC chains on healers and not been able to land a kill outside of damage CDs.
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100 Human Warlock
17045
Now that we have a blue in here, whats the idea of making destru, one of the only speccs that has to cast to do damage, lose the only way to get it off? When you were versing 2 melees or hunter - melee as it is, getting casts off wasnt something easy to do, and now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?
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100 Human Paladin
15875
now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?


Fake cast? Like SPs, elementals(used to have to do) and mages do?
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90 Human Paladin
15805
I don't think these will go live in their current state in rated PvP.
You're correct, the numbers on set bonuses are actually just place holders for the moment. At this time try focusing your feedback for set bonuses around the actual mechanics rather than the tuning of the numbers.

In general I think that gamebreaking effects, such as the Warrior one, do not fit into PvP. Even if the chance of proccing is only <1%, it still feels out of place. I think we would get the "5.1 TBF"-situation.

Item - Warrior T16 DPS 4P Bonus (New) - Your Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst have a chance to activate Death Sentence, allowing Execute to be used above 20% target health. Below 20% target health, Death Sentence makes Execute free.


This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.

I agree, this would be way too good. Sure, Holy Paladins are kind of weak right now, but this will make them very, very, very strong.

Not so sure about this, this just means more TVs which is more damage, rets do not need more of that right now.

I feel like 10 is fine, although 15 sec per charge would be nice, yet not overpowered in my opinion.

Generally agree with Mirion on the Paladin changes.
Edited by Thornassx on 12/06/2013 10:52 BST
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93 Dwarf Paladin
13200
What about cc?
Your adding cc to rets but what about other classes that have instant cc's such as priests?
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90 Human Warlock
8805
Now that we have a blue in here, whats the idea of making destru, one of the only speccs that has to cast to do damage, lose the only way to get it off? When you were versing 2 melees or hunter - melee as it is, getting casts off wasnt something easy to do, and now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?


You need to land 2+ chaosbolts to contribute to a kill. 80k damage is hardly contributing when your partner has done 4 times that amount in the 3sec it took to cast it.
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