5.4 PTR Patch Notes concerning PvP

90 Human Paladin
16190
This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.

For rets.


Aha, but it would be perfectly fine for Holy I assume?
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90 Human Paladin
15730
I updated the main post to make it easier to read, as well as adding some stuff.

think Ghostcrawler said it best with this quote: "Take data-mining and even PTR itself with a grain of salt. PTR is our Petri dish and not every experiment works."

Please provide as much constructive feedback as you can on the changes listed in the patch notes, we will do our best to update them as frequently as possible for you to read.


I dont wanna be that guy, but the loss of KJC requires a miracle to not obliterate locks from pvp. also, just the idea of giving palas fear is over the top

They do get other buffs in return though, such as the long desired Shadowflame. Running and casting doesn't belong in PvP in my opinion, as it requires less awareness of positioning before you start casting.

And S14 Elite is 535+? Or just cosmetic as S13 Elite?

Just cosmetic as of now, but hopefully they change their mind and increase the stat and item level on these.

And yes, complaining about PTR notes is justified.

It is, Blizzard actually wants you to. If you did test on the PTR, please provide any constructive feedback you have.

i want to see the 65% base resil removed I dont know how they can let people play in PVE gear and be on an even level!

They're not on an even level. PvP gear is significantly better than PvE gear in instanced PvP zones.

This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.

For rets.


Aha, but it would be perfectly fine for Holy I assume?

No, it would not. Bubble on 2.5 min cooldown would mean that we can just bubble everytime the other team uses their offensive cooldowns to be immune against any form of CC unless there is a bubble-breaker on the opposite team, while spam healing the target.
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Community
"Moonkin Form no longer reduces all damage taken by 15%"
This is huge nerf for PvP... You need to compensate or something. Else I'm doomed to play arenas on alts again ... S:
We removed these because they were causing a lot of problems in PvE situations. Don't fret though as we intend to balance around this change as we can adjust the damage in PvP to compensate for this in many different ways, such as resilience.

To those wondering why Aspect of the Iron Hawk was only reduced in damage reduction rather than removed, this is because it's a talent and it still needs to have a purpose. We are happy that this change will mean that the other talents in that tier will be more attractive now.

In general I think that gamebreaking effects, such as the Warrior one, do not fit into PvP. Even if the chance of proccing is only <1%, it still feels out of place. I think we would get the "5.1 TBF"-situation
The goal is for PvE set bonuses to not be the best choice possible, but not for them to be worthless either. We don't want PvE-focused players to be afraid to set foot in PvP by deactivating these cool set bonuses in PvP. If a PvE set bonus proves problematic though, we'll adjust it accordingly.

12/06/2013 09:07Posted by Zultajie
What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time
This follows the same logic as that of the Challenge mode armor rewards. Since they're a purely cosmetic reward, it doesn't make much sense to reward items one at a time because having several different items of varying colors would look out of place.

12/06/2013 10:28Posted by Easydragon
This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.
The reason that this change is occurring is because we felt that Unbreakable Spirit was weak compared to its counterparts. We’ll be keeping a close eye on it, so be sure to test it out on the PTR when it becomes available.

12/06/2013 10:41Posted by Zephi
Now that we have a blue in here, whats the idea of making destru, one of the only speccs that has to cast to do damage, lose the only way to get it off? When you were versing 2 melees or hunter - melee as it is, getting casts off wasnt something easy to do, and now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?
The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.
Edited by Nakatoir on 13/06/2013 10:12 BST
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90 Human Paladin
16105
The reason that this change is occurring is because we felt that Unbreakable Spirit was weak compared to its counterparts. We’ll be keeping a close eye on it, so be sure to test it out on the PTR when it becomes available.


Sure unbreakable spirit needs a buff but I think the main problem is Clemency needs a nerf, double sac and bop is far to good to even compare them with the other talents.

This follows the same logic as that of the Challenge mode armor rewards. Since they're a purely cosmetic reward, it doesn't make much sense to reward items one at a time because having several different items of varying colors would look out of place.


Could you please make it so you don't need to re gem and re enchant the gear? :x Make it another piece you can buy for gold or something instead of having to turn your gear piece in.
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90 Human Paladin
16105
Aha, but it would be perfectly fine for Holy I assume?


I like how you take that out of context.
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85 Human Warlock
12945
In general I think that gamebreaking effects, such as the Warrior one, do not fit into PvP. Even if the chance of proccing is only <1%, it still feels out of place. I think we would get the "5.1 TBF"-situation

The goal is for PvE set bonuses to not be the best choice possible, but not for them to be worthless either. We don't want PvE-focused players to be afraid to set foot in PvP by deactivating these cool set bonuses in PvP. If a PvE set bonus proves problematic though, we'll adjust it accordingly.


and it will take again another 2 months to fix something like that... like it always does ...
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90 Orc Warlock
11860
"Moonkin Form no longer reduces all damage taken by 15%"
This is huge nerf for PvP... You need to compensate or something. Else I'm doomed to play arenas on alts again ... S:
We removed these because they were causing a lot of problems in PvE situations. Don't fret though as we intend to balance around this change as there are many ways we can adjust the damage in PvP to compensate for this in many different ways, such as resilience.

To those wondering why Aspect of the Iron Hawk was only reduced in damage reduction rather than removed, this is because it's a talent and it still needs to have a purpose. We are happy that this change will mean that the other talents in that tier will be more attractive now.

In general I think that gamebreaking effects, such as the Warrior one, do not fit into PvP. Even if the chance of proccing is only <1%, it still feels out of place. I think we would get the "5.1 TBF"-situation
The goal is for PvE set bonuses to not be the best choice possible, but not for them to be worthless either. We don't want PvE-focused players to be afraid to set foot in PvP by deactivating these cool set bonuses in PvP. If a PvE set bonus proves problematic though, we'll adjust it accordingly.

12/06/2013 09:07Posted by Zultajie
What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time
This follows the same logic as that of the Challenge mode armor rewards. Since they're a purely cosmetic reward, it doesn't make much sense to reward items one at a time because having several different items of varying colors would look out of place.

12/06/2013 10:28Posted by Easydragon
This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.
The reason that this change is occurring is because we felt that Unbreakable Spirit was weak compared to its counterparts. We’ll be keeping a close eye on it, so be sure to test it out on the PTR when it becomes available.

12/06/2013 10:41Posted by Zephi
Now that we have a blue in here, whats the idea of making destru, one of the only speccs that has to cast to do damage, lose the only way to get it off? When you were versing 2 melees or hunter - melee as it is, getting casts off wasnt something easy to do, and now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?
The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.


**replying to last piece of the quote**

You need to understand that some of us warlocks have been used to play with KJC enable, it makes the playstyle totally different which most of us warlocks enjoys playing.

You can reduce our damage or survival so much as you want if you think we are overpowered I dont care but please dont change KJC. Or it will be like playing a completely different class so it might make some of us warlocks dont enjoy playing the class warlock anymore.

The game is all about to have fun right? :)
Edited by Yippiekiyay on 13/06/2013 09:26 BST
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90 Human Warlock
14500

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.


why rather not worry about the fact that 80% of the arena team above a certain rating are hunter-oriented?
don't you think this clearly shows that there is something seriously wrong?

more and more players go to play hunter, you noticed?
many of these remain surprised at how easy it is to play the hunter than the class who were playing earlier.

pls, can at least one of your employees try to play a lock? can he try to switch from lock to hunter? can your hunter try to do the same playing a lock? do not notice a huge difference?

you know what would be helpful? (sarcasm inside) see your internal team play 3v3 matches: team-oriented lock vs hunter-oriented ... I just want to see how many times out of 30 games the lock-team would have any chance of win.

if all locks take a certain talent this evidently means that there is a serious lack in the design of the class that fortunately able to be offset by a talent.

and what are you doing? nerfate that talent?
why not at least try to ask yourselves about the reason for which that talent is practically mandatory in order to play?

locks are in a position where they need help (buff) and you patch after patch continue to nerf them?

a simple summary of how you handled until now lock and hunter:
patch x.x
lock need buff, what u doing? nerf -2 buff +1 = lock -1 feeling = lock nerfed
hunter need nerf, what u doing? buff +2 nerf-1 = hunter +1 feeling = hunter become even more strong then before.

so patch by patch lock become less stronger and hunter become more.

you mentioned the lock affliction, what about destro?

I'm sorry if you think my tones are turned on, but we are no longer in the first month of Pandaria ... and we are not even in the first year of wow...
I do find it hard to understand how it can be possible that level of imbalance in the game.
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90 Human Priest
7015
why rather not worry about the fact that 80% of the arena team above a certain rating are hunter-oriented?
don't you think this clearly shows that there is something seriously wrong?


If you actually bothered to read the so called patch notes, you would see that hunters get theirs as well. Lazy lock.
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Community
13/06/2013 09:53Posted by Jhamaz
why rather not worry about the fact that 80% of the arena team above a certain rating are hunter-oriented?
And there are changes coming for Hunters as well as the recent hotfixes that stopped pets summoned by Stampede using abilities and giving Blink Strikes a 20 second cooldown. Don't forget also:
13/06/2013 08:27Posted by Nakatoir
We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it
There will be more changes to come, so keep your eyes on the patch notes blog and test out the changes when the 5.4 PTR comes around. Don't take all of these changes as the final ones, there are more to come and those that we have made can change as well. As Ghostcrawler said; "The PTR is our Petri dish and not every experiment works".
Edited by Nakatoir on 13/06/2013 10:08 BST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9485
Who makes this? fire this guy asap.

Boomkins will take another 15% more dmg now. this might be a problem since boomys get destroyed by evry Ret and warroir already.

Bull!@#$
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90 Human Warlock
14500
why rather not worry about the fact that 80% of the arena team above a certain rating are hunter-oriented?
don't you think this clearly shows that there is something seriously wrong?


If you actually bothered to read the so called patch notes, you would see that hunters get theirs as well. Lazy lock.


this don't change the fact of what i wrote.
we talking about 5.4? Good, so 4° patch where hunter are supposed to be seriously nerfed...
but up to now, this has not happened at all.

and the hunter are so absurd it does not need a patch but an immediate and serious hotfix ... immediate and serious from the first day of Pandaria...
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90 Human Warlock
9250
You need to understand that some of us warlocks have been used to play with KJC enable, it makes the playstyle totally different which most of us warlocks enjoys playing.


I don't like KJC. It removes positional awareness requirement which always was and should be an important skill to master to be a successful in arena. Making things "easier" is not the way forward in PvP.

If I had my way there wouldn't be a single spell in the game that could be cast while moving, because giving everyone this bonus is going to yet again, eventually, escalate the already ridiculous arms race. Give casters mobility --> melee need mobility --> give more CC --> blablabla etcetcetc --> vicious circle

Also I believe getting a cast off against a melee team should be rewarding. Arena these days is all about being able to get as close to your PvE rotation as possible while chucking in the odd CC when something looks like it could get globalled.

Anyways, all that just to say, removing KJC is a very good thing, it will also open up some room for the devs to improve us without having to worry our damage will go through the roof because of a silly mechnic like KJC.
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62 Goblin Death Knight
280
We need changes NOW, not after 5.4 and after another season means nothing!
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90 Human Paladin
19140
A very needed overhaul for the bad inquisition glyph. A good glyph for random battlegrounds and pve. Also for dailies and such.


Pve wise mhm not raids but dailies and solo farming old instances great. But brawler and raids ouch so worthless.

12/06/2013 16:45Posted by Johnmatríx
If I had a choise, I would remove it entirely or make it do something else than work as another spell to stack for burst but allright change.


You got y vote! i wanna see goak dissapear totaly.

12/06/2013 16:45Posted by Johnmatríx
Interesting and going to be very strong in pvp. I have to say that like this it will most certainly be a choise against clemency.


Agreed will help with we need in pve solo content aswell in pvp alot.
Edited by Lightgoddess on 13/06/2013 11:06 BST
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"Moonkin Form no longer reduces all damage taken by 15%"
This is huge nerf for PvP... You need to compensate or something. Else I'm doomed to play arenas on alts again ... S:
We removed these because they were causing a lot of problems in PvE situations. Don't fret though as we intend to balance around this change as we can adjust the damage in PvP to compensate for this in many different ways, such as resilience.

To those wondering why Aspect of the Iron Hawk was only reduced in damage reduction rather than removed, this is because it's a talent and it still needs to have a purpose. We are happy that this change will mean that the other talents in that tier will be more attractive now.

In general I think that gamebreaking effects, such as the Warrior one, do not fit into PvP. Even if the chance of proccing is only <1%, it still feels out of place. I think we would get the "5.1 TBF"-situation
The goal is for PvE set bonuses to not be the best choice possible, but not for them to be worthless either. We don't want PvE-focused players to be afraid to set foot in PvP by deactivating these cool set bonuses in PvP. If a PvE set bonus proves problematic though, we'll adjust it accordingly.

12/06/2013 09:07Posted by Zultajie
What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time
This follows the same logic as that of the Challenge mode armor rewards. Since they're a purely cosmetic reward, it doesn't make much sense to reward items one at a time because having several different items of varying colors would look out of place.

12/06/2013 10:28Posted by Easydragon
This is overpowered. You'll have to be lower it to 20 - 30% off the CDs. Bubble with 2.5 minute CD and divine protection with 30 seconds is stupid. Can't let it go through or you'll have so much complains on these forums.
The reason that this change is occurring is because we felt that Unbreakable Spirit was weak compared to its counterparts. We’ll be keeping a close eye on it, so be sure to test it out on the PTR when it becomes available.

12/06/2013 10:41Posted by Zephi
Now that we have a blue in here, whats the idea of making destru, one of the only speccs that has to cast to do damage, lose the only way to get it off? When you were versing 2 melees or hunter - melee as it is, getting casts off wasnt something easy to do, and now with nerfed mobility, how are you ever going to get a chaos bolt off to contribute to a kill?
The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.


Has it ever occurred to you that while you see it as an ability that seems too good, warlocks see it as an ability that is a requirement to play the game due to how arena / pvp has "evolved".
Also Haunt is a short cast which doesn't really help. The issue here is that to actually do dmg we need to stand and cast MG. thats the ability [if any] that should be allowed to be usable while moving.
-> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7646625001
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90 Gnome Warlock
9900
Lightning at shamans under way + prok
Burn at a fusee of magicians under way + prok
At Hunter under way except for Power shot

Really, one only warlock, rascals such, read under way (and only they have a penalty on the speed if that).

change all in that case

trimming differs from castration
Edited by Особонубасна on 13/06/2013 11:17 BST
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90 Human Hunter
13895
13/06/2013 10:07Posted by Nakatoir
Hunters


13/06/2013 10:07Posted by Nakatoir
are


13/06/2013 08:27Posted by Nakatoir
problematic


13/06/2013 10:07Posted by Nakatoir
we have made


13/06/2013 08:27Posted by Nakatoir
them


13/06/2013 08:27Posted by Nakatoir
into


13/06/2013 10:07Posted by Nakatoir
pets
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90 Troll Druid
10200

What i do not understand though is why now add it all in a certain rating and not giving em gradually like tbc? As you also said there are no rewards for those below the said ratings which is quite high for many so there is no "within reach" goal that will push certain mindset of ppl to try a lil harder every time

This follows the same logic as that of the Challenge mode armor rewards. Since they're a purely cosmetic reward, it doesn't make much sense to reward items one at a time because having several different items of varying colors would look out of place.


I am happy you replied in this:) Though whether it gives stats or not i think is of no importance since i suppose the itemlvl scaling will be set to the new "normal" season gear -or to honor gear which would be even better imo- so it really doesn't make a difference (which is good!)

But if i may i am yet to see the problem:)

There are way many players and kinds of ppl who want a "carrot" so to move on, when not in those rating ranges. And in case they get mismatched colouring due to having only a few pieces of the elite, they still have the option of buying the 'normal', no? And besides, transmogrification is an amazing feature *wink*

My last argument regarding it is that how can you use the same logic in challenge modes and arenas? Even in challenge modes you unlock one piece at a time if i am not mistaken; you just get the whole set when you complete 'em all. Since arena has no "completion" but a ladder and ratings/rankings i can not see the similarities between these two:)

The only "drawback" i can see is some whine threads being created (how strange) regarding "Why x piece is at y rating!!!" but those will be fast shut down or ignored with a smile
Edited by Zultajie on 13/06/2013 12:04 BST
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90 Gnome Warlock
9900
Why it is a question only about Affliction Warlocks? And how destruction? Without KС he becomes the absolute outsider.
Edited by Особонубасна on 13/06/2013 11:52 BST
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