Spectator mode and the esport scene in general

90 Worgen Druid
9010
This discussion has come up many times before and as such I will mostly be restating a few points, but I do want to get this out there; we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one. You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement. What it really comes down to is finding the time to be able to develop such a massive feature that already has a working alternative which many people already use; streaming.

We understand that many of you would like to have a dedicated spectator mode, but at this time we have no plans for creating one.
Could you at least start with a spectator mode for Wargames? So you can select an enemy party leader and a spectator party leader? Nevermind the other stuff for now.

The problem is that in tournaments it's quite ugly, really. It feels like SC1 upon release (that's a 1998 game, folks) where you had to spawn the spectator as a 3rd player and share vision with him. It's annoying for people to wait for, it's annoying to set up, and in this case it is outright preventing us completely from doing 5v5 or RBG tournaments, because we simply can't get the players AND the spectators that should be streaming into the arena at once. That really sucks.
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90 Human Mage
10220
12/07/2013 13:22Posted by Nakatoir
You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement.

Yes, this might be so, but in the long run i think it would be highly appreciated. As said, Arena-tournament has a function which works where spectators can jump in and out of the arenas (i've not played there in a couple of years and *cough* may or may not have played there at all since it's not strictly in the terms of usage *cough*) and watch high rated players. No need to go big, just a small "Sure man, you can watch the wargame if you want"- option would be swagger as hell.
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90 Human Paladin
16105
12/07/2013 14:32Posted by Ishayu
The problem is that in tournaments it's quite ugly, really.


Yeah it's really embarrassing to watch like really well organized tournaments with schedules and websites just for that tournament and huge prize money(half the money of blizzcon) and you have to wait for the 2 commentators to run in and die, like really. Comon everyone knows there's a way for Blizzard to flag accounts for their "spectator" client they've got in the game already.

Help them out a bit at least, that's the least you can do.
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70 Undead Rogue
9380
Wow will never be an e-sport game - deal with it. This is a pve game with added pvp feature.

In pure pvp games the gear doesn't matter, it's only for cosmetics and where the real pvp takes place there is no space for huge balance issues.
Edited by Rzeznik on 12/07/2013 15:41 BST
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Community
12/07/2013 15:26Posted by Easydragon
Comon everyone knows there's a way for Blizzard to flag accounts for their "spectator" client they've got in the game already.
Actually, those are just special accounts created only for use at specific events so that the casters can perform their roles in the most optimal fashion and provide the best viewing experience for everyone. It's not something that we can simply add into the game client or provide to anyone who requests it. It's not even a real spectator mode, it's a basic workaround that allows for us to let casters spectate matches and it's little more than a mobile camera for these particular situations.

I don't deny that getting a working spectator mode would help with community ran competitions and tournaments and it's one of the reasons that we would like to have one. Understand that this is something we know that players want and it's something that we would like to provide to you. We simply have no plans at this time to implement such a feature, but when we are able to implement this feature we'll be sure to let you know about it.
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90 Undead Priest
8815
Spectator mode would be amazing, and it could certainly address some of the downtime issues many PvPers face waiting for long ques, waiting for teammates to log, or simply give them a bit of PvP entertainment/research on the days that they wont play with teammates and dont want to group with other players.

More beneficial to the scene in my opinion, would be to enable tournaments on the live realms somehow. Separate from rated matches, perhaps the organiser could wager gold or mounts, customise tournament size (hey rank 1 team, we were rank 2 last season but never played you, best of 11 for 100k?) which would generate a TON of sweet replays and evolve from there. (tournaments to qualify for top tier tournaments, give aspiring players a chance to compete with well known teams etc etc)

I think with PvP, more is more.
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This discussion has come up many times before and as such I will mostly be restating a few points, but I do want to get this out there; we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one. You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement. What it really comes down to is finding the time to be able to develop such a massive feature that already has a working alternative which many people already use; streaming.

We understand that many of you would like to have a dedicated spectator mode, but at this time we have no plans for creating one.


Arena-tournament.com can do it, why can't the 4th richest gaming company in the world do it.
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90 Human Paladin
16105
12/07/2013 16:00Posted by Nakatoir
Actually, those are just special accounts created only for use at specific events so that the casters can perform their roles in the most optimal fashion and provide the best viewing experience for everyone.


Why not help out some of the people running these tournaments?(I know you can't do anything but maybe contact someone who can) Let them access the accounts for a few hours, I'm sure there's someone that can watch over it all or does blizzard think it would be to big of a security risk?

Ok I know why you can't speak about it m8, dw. We're still cool
Edited by Easydragon on 12/07/2013 17:00 BST
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MVP
90 Human Paladin
15730
12/07/2013 16:31Posted by Easydragon
Actually, those are just special accounts created only for use at specific events so that the casters can perform their roles in the most optimal fashion and provide the best viewing experience for everyone.


Why not help out some of the people running these tournaments?(I know you can't do anything but maybe contact someone who can) Let them access the accounts for a few hours, I'm sure there's someone that can watch over it all or does blizzard think it would be to big of a security risk?

I think it has something to do with a license that is required for tournaments with real life currency rewards, such as the Bleached Bones tournament, but that they don't have it. Not sure though.
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90 Human Paladin
16105
I think it has something to do with a license that is required for tournaments with real life currency rewards, such as the Bleached Bones tournament, but that they don't have it. Not sure though.


You need a license to host a LAN tournament with X amount of money I think, not sure if it applies to online too
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90 Undead Mage
15570
You do for sc2 at least, LAN or online, and I believe the threshold is 5000 USD
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90 Human Paladin
16105
You do for sc2 at least, LAN or online, and I believe the threshold is 5000 USD


Yeah you need a license for online too, but it's not like blizzard can prove that you pay any money for online tournaments either way so they're quite powerless in this case
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MVP
90 Human Paladin
15730
You do for sc2 at least, LAN or online, and I believe the threshold is 5000 USD

I think it's 10000, but I can't find any rules about World of Warcraft except that contests rewards can only be in-game items. I actually asked about this very subject yesterday, so perhaps I'll get an answer in the coming few days.
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1 Orc Warrior
0
Will esport ever happened in wow


nope. pvp is just a mess overall and some class comb have an advantage over others.

and why would anyone watch it? most skills have little to no visual effect, especially on melee classes, so it would be hard to see exactly whats going on for most ppl.
Edited by Givephatlewt on 12/07/2013 19:06 BST
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85 Tauren Death Knight
6695
we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one. You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement


Proabably less time than you lot spent on the stupid battle pets..
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90 Night Elf Druid
5065
TL;DR: No. I am not hating on Blizzard, I love their games. It's just a bit slacky.

This discussion has come up many times before and as such I will mostly be restating a few points, but I do want to get this out there; we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one. You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement. What it really comes down to is finding the time to be able to develop such a massive feature that already has a working alternative which many people already use; streaming.

We understand that many of you would like to have a dedicated spectator mode, but at this time we have no plans for creating one.


I know the "You Can't Compare League of Legends to WoW" talk wil ultimately happen after my post, but I beg to have you listening.

League of Legends has a perfectly fine spectator system, I don't think Riot would mind snagging some ideas from their spectator mode, as a spectator mode is a spectator mode. Heck. Might even try to design some fan-concept art of how it could look later. Yes. It would require development, but you guys do advertise WoW to also be an eSport, just like StarCraft and the forthcomming Blizzard All-Stars, in my opinion, an eSport should have the features expected of an eSport, and that includes spectator modes. Of course, yes. That would require settings. For general normal low-tier ranked arenas you should only be able to spectate if you had him/her on BattleTag or as a Real-ID friend, or the guy had you as a normal friend, the same goes for Battlegrounds and low-tier Ranked Battlegrounds.

Balance does not matter all that much for if a game is an actual esport or not, it's how many people watch it, and wow arena is not very spectator friendly


That might be your opinion,
I beg to differ. The main part of the system is already there. The feature to change views is there. The feature to move camera is there, the only thing that would be have to made was the rosters for both teams and a onSpellCasting() (or whatever Blizzard named that function in C++, heck. If the function already exists. It's easy. I'll provide an example in Java below) event trigger.

(// is a comment in java)
public void onSpellCastingEvent(SpellCastProgressEvent e) { //function start

spellCastBar.Text = e.SpellName; //Text for the spell
while (e.Progress <= 100) { //While loop to calculate progress
spellCastBar.Progress = e.Progress; //Progress for the spell is being set }
} //Loop end

} //function end

That's your daily dose of Java programming. But the point is, not many developers are required to do that work.

This is not to hate on Blizzard or anything. I love WoW, I love Warcraft, I love pretty much every game they've made.


EDIT: O.o - That's probably the longest forum post I've ever done on here.
Edited by Chaliniara on 12/07/2013 22:34 BST
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86 Undead Rogue
11615
we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one.


Don't BS us. If Blizz wanted a spectator mode it would have been implemented by now. I mean it has been YEARS. You can't blame the complexity to develop a spectator mode by this time, it's just not a comment I can take seriously.

12/07/2013 13:02Posted by Thornassx
I would actually dislike if people could spectate my games when I am not streaming.

If a spectator mode would be implemented, it had to be with certain options to it. Such as that the player can choose whether he wants others to be able to spectate his matches, as you'd get 'spies' otherwise.


I don't think an E-sport would be an E-sport without a proper spectator mode feature.

And for those who says wow is not spectator friendly, I don't get it, how many E-sports are spectator friendly for those who have yet to play the game? No game, it's all just a big mess if you haven't played the game.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12415
12/07/2013 13:22Posted by Nakatoir
we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one.


Beware, it might be necessary to change the game as well. Otherwise the matches might just not be worth watching. Established knowledge on this topic is still sparse, but see for example here:

http://jeffhuang.com/Final_StarcraftSpectator_CHI11.pdf

The authors make some good observations about what the audience likes or dislikes, and their reasons for doing so.
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90 Tauren Priest
12025
12/07/2013 13:22Posted by Nakatoir
we do think that that a spectator mode would be awesome for the game and we really would like to implement one. You have to remember that this would be a huge feature and it would require a large amount of development time to implement


Sorry, but this feels like a cop out answer there already exists some part of the technology in the game for spectator mode (since it's been used in Blizzard sanctioned events) and creative fans have found work around to run their own tournaments.

At the moment only thing holding you guys back from actually developing a simple spectator option (it really wouldn't have to be anything more than just a way to join a game and be able to target players from both teams to work) is that Blizzard seems to want to push SC2 and their flagship eSports title and since WoW doesn't have same kind of steam around it as it had back in TBC/WotLK maybe the marketing people are worried that if they launch spectator mode for WoW and it flops (maybe MLG is little vary of picking WoW up again, I don't know) it might reflect negatively on their other products, namely SC2.
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90 Undead Priest
12125
arenatournament private wow server .... have spectater mode and it works
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