Warcraft vs WoW - Building Up Story / Heroes / Villians

90 Undead Priest
16785
Now that the major part of the story for MoP has been wrapped up with 5.4 I started watching videos about Warcraft lore and noticed something. To me it seems like that the RTS series Warcraft (especially Warcraft 3 + Throzen Throne) builds story, heroes, villians, atmosphere etc. far better than WoW does.

Until MoP a very large part of the content patches and expansions had been built around characters that had their story built up in the RTS series or even before timeline wise. With MoP Blizzard proved that they can pull an expansion out of the blue, which is basically based on nothing, or at least nothing that we already knew from before, but it simply feels odd and out of place.

I do not mean to offend here or anything but personally I have never felt any excitement or attachment when dealing with Pandas, Klaxxi, Mogu, Mantid or the people of Pandaria in general. The only pleasant surprise was when Vol'jin (whom I love as a character) was made Warchieft and he is kinda an old timer as well.

My point is that I feel like for WoW to get exciting again we need a new storyline, new heroes and new villians that we can all love and hate. We need to feel connected and attached to really make us immerse in the World... of Warcraft again. I am almost certain that a lot more people feel related to Illidan or Arthas than to Ji Firepaw or Lorewalker Cho. There are some big names left out there like Alleria, Turalyon, Queen Azshara or an Illidan redemption (IT'S COMING!) and a few more but not many.

So where can we get all this from? A Warcraft 4 between the next expansion and the one after. Warcraft RTS is just a so much better way of developing the story and building up characters that I don't think it can be compared to WoW. It's cool to step into The Black Temple but it is cool because we know about it already. Having something in the RTS series that is later added to WoW brings a lot excitement with it.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
12470
Despite the fact that I would love another RTS,

Blizzard did give us a new storyline, new heroes and new villains. Sometimes something new can feel refreshing :)
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12535
Well... Warcraft 3 was about the orcs, the humans, the undead, about Arthas and Northrend. MoP is about Panda bears. There is a quite obvious distinction in favor of the Warcraft RTS games in this department. But I have to give it to Blizzard here: they really did the most they could have done out of Panda bears... the world is almost interesting.
Edited by Anabelle on 06/10/2013 20:40 BST
Reply Quote
Well... Warcraft 3 was about the orcs, the humans, the undead, about Arthas and Northrend. MoP is about an Old God who died at the battle toooooo many years ago in the hands of the Titans ,whose essence and heart still lurks underneath it and corrupts its citizens

/fixed
Edited by Archronos on 06/10/2013 22:48 BST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
4250
Whether you felt attached to the characters or not aside, MoP had surely the most finely crafted storyline since WC3, because of how each patch flowed into the next, because of how there was a vast array of interactions between all the characters, and because of how they were able to forge a new setting instead of recycling old villains like they always do.

Honestly, the last thing I want to see them do is bring back Illidan for no other reason than the fans going ''OMFG HE WAS COOL HE HAD TWO SWORDS AND STUFF AND REMINDS ME WHEN I WAS A KID''. Unfortunatly, they know that's the way to make more money, and Blizzard doesn't care that much about crafting a nice story.

You know, I like Voldemort a lot, but the last thing I want is Rowling writing a sequel where she pulls him out of her a** and throws him against the heroes again for no reason.

(Oh well, I guess Illidan would have still potential for a good story to some extent, but seriously, Azshara? Why do people want to see her again? She was just another flat evil overlord with no personality like most villains in the Warcraftverse)
Edited by Tarquinus on 06/10/2013 23:38 BST
Reply Quote
Oh well, I guess Illidan would have still potential for a good story to some extent, but seriously, Azshara? Why do people want to see her again? She was just another flat evil overlord with no personality like most villains in the Warcraftverse)

Tbh we expect to see Illidan once again , not only to redeem himself but he mostly comes back because i heard some rumors that since he became a demon, he went to twisting nether so he has the power to come back, i heard this alternative, that he placed one part of his soul in a bottle and bla bla bla. See harry potter and the horcruxes.

As for Azshara i cant really say that she isnt in need of to be seen again. We must kill her. Let me enlighten you, she was rensponsible for the first invasion of the burning legion, she allied with the Old God N'zoth and he transformed her into a naga. Now she sended her pet Ozumat <The Fiend of the Dark Below> to kidnapped the elemental lord of water Neptulon so she will rule the seas in his place. So uhm... i believe we must put an end to her...
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12535
/fixed


Buttercup, if I wanted to hire a secretary I would make an announcement. Please go fetch me some coffee now.
Reply Quote
Buttercup, if I wanted to hire a secretary I would make an announcement. Please go fetch me some coffee now.

You got offended because i correct you about being wrong on lore side?
Reply Quote
Community
06/10/2013 17:22Posted by Xewie
My point is that I feel like for WoW to get exciting again we need a new storyline, new heroes and new villians that we can all love and hate.


This is not the first time I have been reading a comment like this, and it is one that I personally find to very interesting due to the vastness that is the Warcraft lore... There are so many different storylines in the Warcraft universe, some obviously more known than others, but which ones would be the most interesting ones for the future?

It could be cool if you guys would share some specifics on what you have in mind when you say that you want a new storyline... are you talking about a continuation of existing storylines, or a restart of the Warcraft storyline overall? Also, do you have a particular storyline you would find more interesting than others?

Some people have already answered questions like these in the story forum, sometimes quite extensively, but in this thread I think a few lines will suffice ;-)
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12535
07/10/2013 13:31Posted by Archronos
Buttercup, if I wanted to hire a secretary I would make an announcement. Please go fetch me some coffee now.

You got offended because i correct you about being wrong on lore side?


I'm not offended at all, just not hiring a secretary, that's all. When I do, be sure you will be the first I will take into account.
Reply Quote
I'm not offended at all, just not hiring a secretary, that's all. When I do, be sure you will be the first I will take into account.


Yay \o/

Now on a serious note, i cant stand people who dont see the lore correctly and are misleading other people aswell, so i find it necessary to defend the lore of the game i play in. Especially when someone says that Pandaria is about panda bears and only..
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Monk
6210
Would love a deeper quest line regarding the guardian of tirisfal! Perhaps a caverns of time style 5 man of aegwenn (spelling) being corrupted by sargeres just a more general insight into that lore perhaps involve med"an Karazhan was great but barely scratched the surface! Or perhaps more about pre arthas before he murdered his father and about the split kingdoms? Just my views as I feel everything Orc and dragon related has been somewhat exhausted
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7000
I agree wc3 lore is so awesome i remember playing campaign all day just cause story.. first time in hisstory of rts humans lose totally their kingdom.. and thats why i started playing wow to see what happend to lordaeron, arthas and scourge..
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7000
07/10/2013 14:30Posted by Vaneras
My point is that I feel like for WoW to get exciting again we need a new storyline, new heroes and new villians that we can all love and hate.


This is not the first time I have been reading a comment like this, and it is one that I personally find to very interesting due to the vastness that is the Warcraft lore... There are so many different storylines in the Warcraft universe, some obviously more known than others, but which ones would be the most interesting ones for the future?

It could be cool if you guys would share some specifics on what you have in mind when you say that you want a new storyline... are you talking about a continuation of existing storylines, or a restart of the Warcraft storyline overall? Also, do you have a particular storyline you would find more interesting than others?

Some people have already answered questions like these in the [url="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/874703/"]story forum[/url], sometimes quite extensively, but in this thread I think a few lines will suffice ;-)


You need some storyline that will shock players with story something like i.e. for Burning Legion expansion.. legion invades all of azeroth, some capital cities destroyed, leaders killed and Alliance and Horde are losing ground fast theres no where to run, SW and Org are under the siege.. they can't hold much longer and than you make elwyn forest lvl 91-92 phased breaking siege etc..pushing BL through Dark portal cause they came from some other portal that opened there.. Now Alliance and Horde after clearing outland again invade xoroth from which BL first came from but after they cleared xoroth they know that they need to clear Argus.. and so on .. you get the idea..
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Monk
6210
I love the idea of taking the fight back to them :) however sargeres still is a Titan ( I use the term loosely) so I guess he would literally wipe us all out with his toe on his soil...but then broxigar managed to cut him..lol I guess :) but yeah love the idea of us sweeping the universe eradicating the burning legion, once our petty horde vs alliance storyline comes to an end..maybe then can introduce the burning legion as a seperate faction so horde and alliance can unite and then you still have pvp as an option!! Ooooo the possibilities are endless!!
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
8910
If new expansion is added , the game would be fun but alot more different from the one we already know - since with every single expansion we face many new additions and changes to the game that are slowly changing every aspect of the gameplay that we learned from the old contents. We will be able to do millions and tons of damage while having the same health ? Stats would rather be ridicilously high and many new races/classes would unbalance pvp/pve and etc. etc. I believe it is time to create a whole new game otherwise this one will meet it's end . Probably right now you are saying that it will end anyway but with what reputation ? As the best MMO ever created or the best MMO which turned into another money-runned addition.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
13805
While there is certainly some potential for entirely new storylines, I'm more interested in the places that have only been hinted at, haven't been seen in a while, or might not exist at all. Argus is a prime example (Draenei try to retake their home, goblins accidentally make a wormhole while trying to boil an egg, Bronze Dragonflight flips out and clones the Dark Portal, etc), or Kul Tiras, maybe an undiscovered fragment of Draenor. Perhaps the goblins try to recolonise the ruins of Kezan.
My favourite candidate for this was formerly the home of the worgen; not the pseudo-werewolf Gilneans, but the creatures summoned by Arugal and his ilk. There was much speculation that the enemy they fought, who wielded "green fire" was another branch of the Burning Legion. Was disappointed to find that this wasn't the case.

It's also true that there is potential for entirely new characters to shine, Sunwalker Dezco being perhaps the best example. But the game has a bad habit of making new characters with a lot of potential and then discarding them. I think here of Forward Commander Onslaught, Voren'thal*, Vanessa VanCleef, "The Ebon Watcher," Gallywix...

*And when is he going to question just who sent him that vision?

There's even occasions when an older character would serve perfectly well in a role, yet instead you get a new entry from the random name generator. For example, where did Valithria go? Why couldn't she have served as one of the dragons in Dragon Soul? Or even, in a particularly tragic turn of events, have been the dragon who fell to corruption to rise as Alysrazor? Returning characters establish a sense of narrative and continuity, yet there are so very few of them, and many persist only long enough to become a boss (Zaela) or trapped in a dungeon forever (Deathstalker Belmont). Brann is one to break out, but even he only crops up in plot fragments, holding no connected narrative of his own.

No, what I want to see is a long-term development of a series of characters.
It's well known that WoW doesn't have the time or resources to devote to all of its stars, that's why Thrall keeps popping back up. Despite his status as a "tired old character" (I forget which dev said that), he has name and character recognition, qualities that are time consuming and resource-expensive to grant. It would be weird to have his role played by, for example, Baine, despite broad similarities in philosophy.

I'll try to keep it brief, but what about elevating some old, backstage characters to playing a more central, repeating role? Nazgrim was a good example, but what about Faranell, still dealing with the repercussions of Putress' betrayal? Mia Greymane, becoming a political player in her own right, outside the influence of her husband. Nathanos Blightcaller, playing Varimathras' role better than the old demon ever could (and for that matter, we know that Varimathras, Balnazzar, Detheroc and Mal'Ganis are still wandering around out there, when are they going to show up again?).

On the subject of redemption, I do think that Warcraft desperately needs a redemption story, we've had far too many "oh they're evil now" stories and been forced to slay people who were prime candidates for forgiveness (Illidan, Kael'thas, though I wouldn't go as far as to say Arthas. And speaking of which, if GARROSH of all people gets this opportunity then someone messed up, if there's one character who doesn't have even a shadow of an excuse it's him). I'm particularly interested in one example:

Sylvanas. As many have said, she's grown entirely too close to the "become what you hate in order to destroy it" model, the phrase "Lich Queen" is being bandied about discomfortingly readily. There's even still the possibility that she had a hand in the events of the Wrathgate. This has to be reversed before she becomes yet another dead/deposed racial leader, written into a corner before finally being killed off because nobody could think of a way out.
Here's your way out: her sisters. It's been mentioned that Alleria and Vereesa would be most likely to slay Sylvanas as a mercy to her, but why wouldn't they try to help her? I'm not saying that Sylvanas must rediscover her humanity and become all penitent, that would be boring as well as cheap. She has a role to play, and that role is to be the foil to Thrall, Vol'Jin, Lor'themar and Baine, the principled leaders of the Horde. The Horde needs its antiheroine. But Sylvanas' pragmatism (which she has always demonstrated, with everything from Varimathras to allying with the Horde itself) is in danger of being subsumed by a personality that she doesn't even have, one that ignores practicality in favour of brutality and sadism. Taking down Koltira? Appropriate. Allying with the Val'kyr? Logical. Plaguing Gilneas? Harsh, but effective. But lets not go any further. She needs to get back in touch with her song, her family, and while avoiding a complete heel face turn, get off the path to complete character 2D. I'd suggest offering the Gilneans back their city (since apparently we're not doing anything with it), but she's rabidly defensive against potential threats, which makes sense. Maybe another concession, suggested by her sisters. Something that indicates character development.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
10810
.... I'd made it this long without walking into spoilers my raid was on the 10th boss so I thought I'd actually find out by our cinematics aand now I skim the op's post .....
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
19360
but which ones would be the most interesting ones for the future?


I loved lore in MoP and I got super excited about Klaxxi for example, shame they just had to go, out of all the insectiod races I liked them the most. I loved developments Jaina's story and Anduin's story was good so far also.

But to answer your question: Please more Naaru!!! I have been awe-struck by the Naaru and I hope they will be back!
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
12305
I want to second the idea that development is one of the more interesting things that can happen to characters in a story. At least to me, stories that show characters going through serious (but not cheesy or twisted for the sake of it) development are always my favourite.

Examples like TV series "Avatar: Last Airbender" or "Babylon 5" stand out in my memory. Those series emphasized character development above all else. Or books like "The Last Unicorn" or "Ender's Game" did likewise. Movies don't usually have a lot of it, simply because there is not enough time (which IMHO is the reason why the Last Airbender movie was unable to display the qualities of the series).

Specifically within WoW (not the enclosing Warcraft universe, but focused on that one ongoing game), Illidan Stormrage stands out in my opinion as the perfect character to hinge some serious character development on. Arthas showed promise, and worked fairly well during WotLK, but most of his story had happened outside of WoW.

Illidan, in contrast, has personally played a chapter or two before the eyes of (long-term) WoW players. And he is surrounded not just by corpses (as Arthas was), but by family members, an obsessed jailer, former friends and enemies ... and there is Tyrande completing the triangle with two rival brothers. Plus, there is the whole angle of the Shen'dralar, who re-introduced arcane magic back to the night elves.

If Illidan was re-evaluated by his people, not just he himself would get many opportunities for character development. Many of the people around him, too, would have to rethink why they treated him the way they did.

The possible story arcs are also wide open. Illidan could finally be accepted as the magical prodigy that he always was, and his challenge would be to forgive his people their intolerance. Or Illidan might be judged even more harshly than before, after the High Elves were actually corrupted by their addiction to magic. Then his challenge could be continuing to fight for his ungrateful people (remember that Illidan is one of the few major characters who recognizes the Burning Legion as the only relevant enemy).

In either case, Illidan could master his challenge or fail. All the people involved, not just Illidan himself, even the collective self-image of the night elves (and of the blood elves!) could be shaken by a story centered on Illidan.

I see nothing but opportunity there.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]