Why is Timeless gear "crap"?

88 Tauren Druid
10545
I'm happy with Timeless Isle from the perspective of funnelling vast amounts of gear to a mass of alts.

I was interesting in the disparaging way that the gear was viewed in a number of threads. The gems aspect was a given, but I was wondering if I'd missed something fundamental regards the gear itself.

What I'm getting is, it's down to the player. If they make the effort to understand the random stats on the gear and it's imapct on their character, barring gems it's as good as any non Tier 496.

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I might say it was all part of the Blizz plan to sneakily educate the player base. To gently nudge players, where few have gone before :)
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90 Orc Warrior
9625
I'm happy with Timeless Isle from the perspective of funnelling vast amounts of gear to a mass of alts.

I was interesting in the disparaging way that the gear was viewed in a number of threads. The gems aspect was a given, but I was wondering if I'd missed something fundamental regards the gear itself.

What I'm getting is, it's down to the player. If they make the effort to understand the random stats on the gear and it's imapct on their character, barring gems it's as good as any non Tier 496.


Mostly true - but you can get unlucky and get a lot of stats that isnt that useful.

Anyway I guess the fastest way to get geared after hitting 90 is to go straight to Timeless Isle and farm the hell out of it. You'll be ilvl 496 in no time at which point you head directly into SoO LFR. Keep farming Timeless Isle for duplicate items that you want to use with Burdens of Etenity until you cant upgrade anymore of your timeless gear to 535. Chances are that you will have supplemented half of the gear with LFR gear at the time. Dont forget to kill celestials every week. Spend valor on upgrading the best pieces you get from LFR.
Edited by Zinzz on 25/10/2013 14:17 BST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9025
timeless hat of hit
timeless shoes of lots of hit
timeless underwear of hit and expertise
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90 Orc Hunter
15260
I think the timeless gear is lovely! Got all my alts decked out in 500 ilvl+ and this gear helps a lot at making the toons ready for SoO LFR.

People just love to complain...in fact, one could get the idea that some players only pay for this game so that they can whinge about it in some way.
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90 Tauren Paladin
5155
Assume it's me. I get Timeless gear while making sure I'm in the right spec. I get a couple of 535 (the freebie and I get lucky with another burden), the rest is 496. I gem the head. I reforge the stats as best I can.

From what I've seen, my gear will allow me to perform as well as (barring gems slots) anyone who has obtained 496 gear via another route. The exception being Tier gear as it has the set bonuses.

Agree or not?

Yes and no. There's several factors here.

Heroic loot from MSV back at the start of the expansion was about ilvl 500. If you take a gear set from the timeless isle and a gear set from MSV HC, the latter will be much better (more gems, tier bonuses, ect). Realistically most people around the 500 ilvl currently will have a mixture of timeless gear, ToT LFR gear and maybe a piece brought with valor points. That set of gear will have slightly more potential then the timeless gear for the same reasons.

But everything I've said is irrelevant, as gear is 20% of your damage. The rest is down to your skill, your UI, raid awareness, ect. Focus on that principally. After all, a few weeks of SoO LFR will have you at 520-30 :)

It's always been true that: An hour spent at the training dummy beats an hour gearing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11995
It largely depends on which slots and what stats you get. There are some slots where timeless gear is about as good as any other items, and some slots where they are worse. Helm, Necklace, Cloak, Bracers, Belt, Boots, and Rings. Those are all slots where timeless items are pretty much just as good as same item level stuff from a raid, if you get secondary stats that are good for your spec. The helm has exact same amount of sockets as any other helm, and the other pieces are in slots where you generally don't have many sockets anyway, though of course most people have the legendary cloak and crafted belt anyway, if your one of them you can chalk off those two slots.
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90 Undead Warlock
14730
26/10/2013 20:08Posted by Talox
But everything I've said is irrelevant, as gear is 20% of your damage.


What?
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1 Troll Druid
0
I've seen this posted in numerous threads but I'm not clear on why people feel this way. What is it about Timeless gear that makes it "crap" as compared to any other 496 ilevel items?

Not picking on anyone but an example of the numbers people are quoting is in this thread http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8427114342?page=1. The examples are DPS focussed.

Is the gear for tanks and healers also "crap"?

Genuinely interested, so any insite is appreciated.


It's ignorance, thats it.

I was the best geared player in my guild at the end of ToT, with over half the heroic bosses on farm. More than half my gear was heroic while i had thunderforged/normal in other slots. I still replaced 5 pieces with Timeless gear within first 2 weeks of 5.4, and i gained about 14k dps with it.

Timeless gear is not crap with the optimal stats.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9365
no stats, no gems... my 535 item (my ring) has only haste.. which is the worst stat for me
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90 Undead Warlock
14730
no stats, no gems... my 535 item (my ring) has only haste.. which is the worst stat for me


You can, you know, farm for another burden and get better stats.
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90 Gnome Death Knight
13115
I guess the problem is that you're missing out on gem slots


actually when there is no gem slots in the gear the base stats is always higher to compensate. So when people say the gear without gems lots is so much worse. then simply havent activated their brains.

and when it comes to the timeless gear : dont expect to get the stats that is best for u from the first "timeless token"u get as a drop. It takes several tokens in search for an ok gear worth equiping.
Edited by Onslow on 26/10/2013 21:46 BST
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90 Undead Warlock
14730
26/10/2013 21:43Posted by Onslow
I guess the problem is that you're missing out on gem slots


actually when there is no gem slots in the gear the base stats is always higher to compensate. So when people say the gear without gems lots is so much worse. then simply havent activated their brains.


You still lose some secondary stats on gear without gems.
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90 Gnome Death Knight
13115


actually when there is no gem slots in the gear the base stats is always higher to compensate. So when people say the gear without gems lots is so much worse. then simply havent activated their brains.


You still lose some secondary stats on gear without gems.


All I lose is the opportunity to fix with the stats in the same amount I can do with gemmed gear.

I am quite sure that most people havent realized that the base stats is higher in unsocketed gear. With that I do NOT in any way say that they are better, I simply say that they are not at all as bad as people think.


"no stats, no gems... my 535 item (my ring) has only haste.. which is the worst stat for me "

Why do you even equip it then if it is wrong stats totally? Wait til you get another burden and another ring token. I have sometimes been forced to waste like 5 burdens on timless tokens for same slot til ive got one with acceptable good stats for me.
Edited by Onslow on 26/10/2013 21:58 BST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6195
26/10/2013 21:46Posted by Kargon


actually when there is no gem slots in the gear the base stats is always higher to compensate. So when people say the gear without gems lots is so much worse. then simply havent activated their brains.


You still lose some secondary stats on gear without gems.

And this is more of the common ignorance. All stats are higher on an item of less sockets (but same ilvl), that includes all the secondary stats.

The only thing 'free' in a socketed item is the socket bonus.
Apart from a socket bonus, which may require you to lose stats, in order to active it it;
the only advantage to an item with (more) sockets is that you get to choose what stats to increase.
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90 Human Paladin
18995
Here have 1292 hit no gem slots etc... well thats awesome! You need to hit the exact good stats and it needs to be dual stats to make it bis.

This char didn`t equip a 1492 expertis ehead for example. And repcaled the 2 535's with the curent rings and came out better...... Only Good one is and even better then flex drops is bracers. Haste/mastery perfect!
Edited by Lightgoddess on 26/10/2013 23:34 BST
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2 Undead Warlock
0
As there are like 10 possible outcomes you might have to try try try try.. try again ;p
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It's not, it's fine.

The 2 secondary stat versions are, obviously, better.
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Timeless Isle is mainly for gearing alts for SoO iLevel entry. For that purpose it's fine.
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90 Night Elf Mage
10205
Why is this a question? Just compare stats:

Mantid Vizier's Robes

2518 Armor
+2472 Stamina
+1408 Intellect
+924 Critical Strike (1.54% @ L90)
+1011 Haste (2.38% @ L90)
Red Socket
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +180 Intellect


Assume +320 Int, +320 Haste for the sockets

Cloudscorcher Robe of the Fireflash

2570 Armor
+2639 Stamina
+1679 Intellect
+1093 Critical Strike
+1093 Haste
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +180 Intellect


Assume +160 Haste +160 Hit for the socket

So they total:

2518 Armor 2570 Armor +52
2472 Stamina 2639 Stamina +167
1908 Intellect 1859 Intellect -49
924 Critical Strike 1093 Critical Strike +169
1331 Haste 1253 Haste -78
160 Hit +160



(if I didn't mess that up too badly trying to format it)

for a sample of 528 RF vs 535 Timeless.

Or, similarly,

2281 Armor 2281 Armor
1835 Stamina 1835 Stamina
1063 Intellect 1143 Intellect
616 Hit 734 Hit
806 Mastery 734 Mastery

Red Socket Blue Socket
Yellow Socket
Bonus: +120 Intellect Bonus: +60 Intellect



for Robes of the Unknown Fear vs. Cloudscorcher Robe of the Flameblaze.

Or pick your own samples.

As Onslow said, with Timeless, you may not get the ideal stats first time, but especially with 496s, they're plentiful and free - just keep using the tokens until you get the one you want. RNG isn't always kind in LFR either, or so I've heard. :P

Of course, some people may not take the trouble, may not enchant, gem, whatever - but that's true for RF gear as well, and that's about the player, not the gear.

So the gear for this sample is maybe a leeetle lower but only very slightly. Tier bonuses are out, though. So with tier bonuses you can do better, but "crap" is not a sustainable characterisation.
Edited by Gráinne on 27/10/2013 06:05 GMT
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90 Undead Warlock
14730


You still lose some secondary stats on gear without gems.

And this is more of the common ignorance. All stats are higher on an item of less sockets (but same ilvl), that includes all the secondary stats.

The only thing 'free' in a socketed item is the socket bonus.
Apart from a socket bonus, which may require you to lose stats, in order to active it it;
the only advantage to an item with (more) sockets is that you get to choose what stats to increase.


Alright, maybe bad wording there, you lose the ability to min-max your secondary stats.
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