Topic
Cataclysm Time Gap
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Edited by Gaherin on 19/11/10 05:26 (GMT)
Gaherin, but surely such things are no different from the outposts in Outland or Northrend? Yet there is also no big timegap there. Exactly, that would be my point. Outland is somewhat of a different story, since a whole lot has been going on over there before the Dark Portal was reopened and we had little reference to what was happening until we stepped trough. Northrend however, assumes a journey in wich we push ever further to Icecrown and construct various outposts along the way in our questing experience. However, would you travel across Northrend before doing anything, we find that somehow various factions had managed to magicly build sizable fortresses on the borders of Icecrown on what seems day #1 of our invasion of the continent. Something that would indicate a timegap. What I think Blizz intended timeline-wise, is that as we make land in either the Borean Tundra or the Howling Fjord and start helping out getting our faction's expeditions underway: Fordragon and Saurfang are (for example timeline-wise) still marching their respective armies up to the wrathgate. Rather then have set up shop already like we see in game, should we travel there rather then finish questing in those zone's. Great example is the presence of Tirion Fordring in the Howling Fjord, when we first arrive there, he seems to have just arrived aswell. Yet should we take a 3 min flight to Icecrown, he is sitting tight in a rather impressive fortification. Point is: These events seem to take place "alongside" our progression trough the game, be it trough questing, phasing or smart use of events, hence there being no time gap in my humble opinion. In the case of Cataclysm, I personally believe that Blizzard assumes us players to have been off to war in Northrend all this time (trough the life of the Wrath expansion), only to see us come back to all the major changes in Azaroth due to the shattering. The idea is nice in itself: <Shock! Horror!> "Is this what I have been freezing my rear-end off for these two years? Is this what I have been mass-murdering scourge for? To come back to my home in ruins?" etc, etc, drama all around, tears where shed, et cetera. The idea of the timegap lies with us players (and us roleplayers have a greater tendacy at that) to be far more mobile then the latest content zones and (role)play wherever the hell we please, especially old-world zones are populair with "our kind". Hence for us, the changes can be viewed as have happened overnight. A world of difference to the point of view of a player who would have spend the majority of his/her time sitting in Dalaran or zerging Icecrown. Just my two coppers, if that wall made any sense at all. |
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Edited by Tardon on 19/11/10 11:36 (GMT)
Outland is somewhat of a different story, since a whole lot has been going on over there before the Dark Portal was reopened and we had little reference to what was happening until we stepped trough. Not quite. The second you enter the Dark Portal, you see that we already have build bases there. Not someone else, but us, the Horde and Alliance. In the case of Cataclysm, I personally believe that Blizzard assumes us players to have been off to war in Northrend all this time (trough the life of the Wrath expansion), only to see us come back to all the major changes in Azaroth due to the shattering. Buuuut that doesn't quite work though. For instance Garrosh is already back in Orgrimmar and labelled as a hero of Northren, and Thrall is off talking to Shamans. We already have the pre-cata events going, those events being "the time gap". "Coming back and seeing world changes" doesn't hold up since even major lore characters are already back, so surely so would many/most players/soldiers. I would simply handle Cata like any other expansion, and possibly RP that some settlements aren't COMPLETELY finished/polished, and just IC think that we can build things quite fast when they need to be :S |
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Edited by Gaherin on 19/11/10 20:55 (GMT)
Not quite. The second you enter the Dark Portal, you see that we already have build bases there. Not someone else, but us, the Horde and Alliance. Most of the bases in Outland have either been constructed by the forces left on Dreanor after the second war or ancient ruins already present before either faction even set foot on the world actually. Buuuut that doesn't quite work though. For instance Garrosh is already back in Orgrimmar and labelled as a hero of Northren, and Thrall is off talking to Shamans. We already have the pre-cata events going, those events being "the time gap". Good point, I still do not think this is a timegap though, since these events are taking place -right now- and can be viewed as part of the current and future timeline seamlessly connecting. Also, as I stated earlier, I do think that the end of Wrath and the beginning of Cata are overlapping. So it is entirely possible to still have forces up in Northrend while our leaders are preparing for the aftermath back home. (you do not pull out a massive army out of a warzone overnight either.) Anyway, as always: Pure speculation on my part. |
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Edited by Eyildr on 19/11/10 21:06 (GMT)
Not quite. The second you enter the Dark Portal, you see that we already have build bases there. Not someone else, but us, the Horde and Alliance. I think he means Thrallmar, which is dubbed after Thrall. It is fairly new, probably constructed as a front base. It helps when orcish buildings are generally more simple and quick to construct. It is wood, not stone. |
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Look at Orgrimmar... Time gap, definitely. Even at the speed buildings are built WoW, I'd said a year. A city doesn't recover from a cataclysm overnight. At least, that's how I see it now (and that's the only way I can make sense of the changes in Orgrimmar).
Role-playing the whole thing as it had happened a minute ago wouldn't make sense. The capital city of the Horde is almost completely rebuilt. I can't pretend it isn't. So, here's how I'd go... Melhael was in Orgrimmar when the world as we know it ended. He'd been fighting the elementals, as many other adventures. Then the kodo dung hit the fan. It was chaos. He did the best he could to help the citizens escape but he himself was eventually injured. Broken limbs and a fever that lasted for weeks. He almost died. When he wakes up, on Day 1, he's fully recovered. The only remaining sign he was ever hurt are small memory losses—recent memories, mostly, of the past ten years. He never was too much enthusiastic about the whole Blood Elf thing. Now, he just doesn't remember what the point is anyhow. He plays along, though. Until he can figure it out. As for my witch, Cordelia Lear, she's a forturne-teller. She saw all this coming, obviously. She relocated to Outland days before the Shattering and no one heard about her ever since... (Truth is, I probably won't play much of my main characters anyway. I'll focus on my goblin, Blingoughby, for whom time gap or no time gap won't matter much. ;)) |
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Orgrimmar did not recover at all, it is still being rebuilt in Cata, so is Stormwind.
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Role-playing the whole thing as it had happened a minute ago wouldn't make sense. The capital city of the Horde is almost completely rebuilt. I can't pretend it isn't. So, here's how I'd go... What people have been suggesting is that instead of saying there was a time gap for these changes, that the changes happened over time during the past years we've already played; in much the same way people assumed the Stormwind Harbour was being built for longer than the scaffolds were about (for however many weeks), we may assume that black steel has been in the process of being lashed onto buildings in Orgrimmar in the background all along (for example). That's the only way it makes sense to me, anyhow! |
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Role-playing the whole thing as it had happened a minute ago wouldn't make sense. The capital city of the Horde is almost completely rebuilt. I can't pretend it isn't. So, here's how I'd go... I mean it is very much Garrosh to go. "Wait.. Buildings burning?! MAKE IT METAL *punts goblin*" |
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Orgrimmar did not recover at all, it is still being rebuilt in Cata, so is Stormwind. From the videos I saw, Stormwind looked fine. They lost a whole district, but that can happen in a matter of minutes. Orgrimmar looked almost completely rebuilt (there were still scaffoldings IIRC). Oh well, I guess I'll see for myself soon enough. ;) |
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Orgrimmar did not recover at all, it is still being rebuilt in Cata, so is Stormwind. Orgrimmar's gate is hardly done at all. They have just stuffed a little metal plating on the front IIRC. Stormwind is in ruin - Park is just bombed, Valley of Heroes got their statues broken... All due to Deathwing going: "Why HELLO THAR!" |
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If anything we just get to not live through the awkward moments of peace. We just go right into war! Woop! - Though It's nice to know that your character actually -did- get some rest before he or she was shipped away somewhere again.
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Acording to the book the shattering the heroes of orgrimmar have just arrived from northrend where only a skeletal force under command of Saurfang will hold warsong hold and were celebrating when weird weather and later fires started bothering orgrimmar. So the heroes are home and preparing to rest out after a long and terrible war when the dragon %*** hits the fan.
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Edited by Melhael on 22/11/10 16:33 (GMT)
Another argument in favour of a time gap: Azshara, look at what the goblins did to the place. It couldn't possibly happen overnight.
I know that some suggest that we go for a "it's been happening up to now" attitude. But I was in Azshara yesterday and I can tell you there wasn't a goblin sight. When prompted to choose an explanation, I tend to go for the simple one: time passed. :) I read in another thread that people suggested 9 years had passed since the death of the Lich King. It seems they were basing that theory on the age of a certain young women, who's currently a little girl. Over time gaps I read about: 3 and 6 years. I guess "over a year" will be my choice, to be on the safe side. |
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Ashenvale will be the hard one to make sense of. Afterall the Night Elves are on top as the game stands now...The Horde attack can be explained away as being a quick, well planned multi-pronged assault. Its the heavy deforestation that will be hard to rationalize.
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I confess I haven't see it yet. That being said, even the attack itself seems a bit weird without a time gap: Orgrimmar is burning, that hardly seems to be the time to mount an attack on anyone. :)
Again, a time gap solves the problem elegantly. |
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Edited by Gnapoleon on 23/11/10 12:36 (GMT)
Except, that assault into Ashenvale has been ongoing for literally years, particularly through Warsong Gulch. Much of the "sudden change" is in fact "catch up" that we would have seen already, I suspect, had phasing been in from day one. Much else, of course, is not. Still, we know that some work has been ongoing - look at the inn in Westfall. The bridge in Lakeshire. Also remember that Blizz when first designing all this, didn't really think of players CHOOSING to go back and roleplay in low level areas again and SEEING the lack of progress.
Anyhow, we roleplayers are lucky in one sense -we HAVE been roleplaying the conflict in Ashenvale over the years. Where was the deforestation line before the elemental eruptions? Somewhere more-or-less-vague. "How come the last time I swam to Quel'thalas it was a single tower? Where did Silvermoon City come from nothing overnight?" We take the change, as always, and we roll [role?] with it. Assuming a two-hundred-year gap between "vanilla" and TBC just because building Silvermoon and destroying it would take a long time might be fine for non-roleplayers, but we have character stories to craft through play. |
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I think it is a good opportunity to put development into characterless who were until now in one phase, an conservative elder druid for example, into a more new phase that the player is interested to roleplay, a more acceptive druid who is in touch with the shaman beliefs for example.
Characters who have been stuck in the mud until now, without anything to drive them to change from the environment, have now 3 years to develop into another character, even more mature... when talking about folks who still roleplay a teen.... Specifically, my main who is druid is going to go into slumber and wake up X years later, finding himself ashore somewhere or buried in a den... returning from the Dream Lands with new ideas, more wise and mature. |
