alleria and turalyon

90 Tauren Death Knight
8410
Any thoughts on if these will be found in the new expansion? ^^
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90 Human Warrior
11250
It seems we will have to keep waiting for them, they have no relevance in WoD. Still, I hope they come soon or else there will be no way for them to catch up to all the hype that is being made around them.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
19910
There are plans for Alleria and Turalyon, but not in WoD.
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90 Human Rogue
8470
I still find it awfully grating that Horde is getting a buffet of all their badasses and heroes handed to them on a plate even if alot of them are dead and dont make sense showing up, they will literally create an alternate universe for them to fit into the lore yet heroes of the alliance that ARE STILL ALIVE, wont show up or do anything because apparently were not worth the effort.
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90 Human Warrior
11250
yet heroes of the alliance that ARE STILL ALIVE, wont show up or do anything because apparently were not worth the effort.


We will be seeing lots of draenei characters, though: Velen, Akama, Nobundo, Maraad, etc. It also seems Khadgar will have a special role, although it is yet undetermined whether it´s that reality´s Khadgar or our Khadgar that travels back in time with us.
So don´t think the Alliance will have zero lore.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8410
There are plans for Alleria and Turalyon, but not in WoD.


Have not read this, thanks.

I still find it awfully grating that Horde is getting a buffet of all their badasses and heroes handed to them on a plate even if alot of them are dead and dont make sense showing up, they will literally create an alternate universe for them to fit into the lore yet heroes of the alliance that ARE STILL ALIVE, wont show up or do anything because apparently were not worth the effort.


Agreed, I would think that Alleria and Turalyon would be part of this expansion as they do play a role linking with Draenor, and Ner'Zhul. I'm not great with WoW Lore but I think this would be a good time for them to pop up and say hi.
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90 Human Rogue
8470
What im hoping for is that during this expansion Gul'Dan is successful during the first patch.
We destroy the Iron Horde, Gul'Dan successfully makes the surviving Iron Horde orcs drink demon blood and opens a portal to Azeroths past. Now theres Fel Orcs with Iron Horde equipment and we have to go help the azeroth of the past, wed get to meet Lothar, and the rest.

Im honestly pretty surprised that they decided NOT to add old alliance heroes, since Warlords seems to tie in greatly with the Warcraft movie coming out so they are getting people familiar with these characters, with durotan, with gul'dan, etc.

Yet what about Lothar? sure if youve played the games or read the lore books you know about him and how badass he is, but youd think they would give him the same treatment as Durotan for the movie.

Also if Thrall meets his daddy, why cant Varian meet Lothar again?
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90 Dwarf Warrior
9860
They said the end of this expansion will tie into the next one, and it seems like Kil'Jaeden will be the final boss. Gul'dan would be like "Yeah the Iron Horde failed but I don't give a !@#$ because -BAM- massive Legion invasion! And the Alliance would be like "Oh nooo." and Kil'Jaeden would be like "Your souls are mine, %^-*ers." But then suddenly Turalyon and Alleria burst in and be like "Waddup, !@#$%es?" It would be awesome.
Edited by Grimaldur on 11/11/2013 14:48 GMT
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8410
11/11/2013 14:47Posted by Grimaldur
suddenly Turalyon and Alleria burst in and be like "Waddup, !@#$%es?"


This made me laugh.

11/11/2013 14:47Posted by Grimaldur
Kil'Jaeden will be the final boss.


Are you speaking about Kil'Jaeden being the last boss of Warlords of Draenor? I'm sure I read somewhere it was Grom Hellscream?

why cant Varian meet Lothar again?


This would make alliance players feel like they are being focused on too, not a bad idea.
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90 Human Rogue
8470
Well its confirmed theyre not on Draenor. They SHOULD be on Outland.

So if we ever have to go back there then thats where well find them.
A possibility of what they could do:

- Leejon attax!!!
- Oh noes! goes everyone.
- Rock music starts playing as all the badass orc warlords step up and are like "yo what up, we gonna rock some !@#$."
- Rock music starts playing again and now its time for Alliance badasses to make their appearance. All we have is Khadgar and hes old so hes taking a nap, that little draenei girl is ready to go tho.
- Chromie is like "%^-* THIS!" opens a portal to when the dark-portal was closed after Alliance sent their heroes through, grabs Turalyon and Alleria, trollbane for good measure.

Suddenly POW we badass now
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5450
It makes sense they aren't on Draenor in that point of time, 30-35 years ago.

Same for the High Elves.
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90 Human Rogue
8470
and it makes sense that Grom is dead Elsya.

where were going, we wont need "sense"
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5695
I still find it awfully grating that Horde is getting a buffet of all their badasses and heroes handed to them on a plate even if alot of them are dead and dont make sense showing up, they will literally create an alternate universe for them to fit into the lore yet heroes of the alliance that ARE STILL ALIVE, wont show up or do anything because apparently were not worth the effort.


I find this statement quite unfair. I mean yes, this expansion brings back a fair deal of Orc characters from the past that are commonly viewed as quite "Badass". Either they will be loot-pinatas or they will be assimilated into the playable Horde, right now we dont know what it will be.

We also know that the expansion will offer a fair bit draenei "badass" characters such as Akama, Velen, Maraad and the new paladin gal.

We also know that Khadgar will play quite an important role, he is a a human character that "The Alliance" get back as such as well.

with the information on blood elf paladins, we can -assume- that Liadrin will play some role as well, this is not a fact but it is a fair assumption.

My point is that it is unfair to say that the horde get a whole lot old heroes back, because

1) we dont know if they will be raid bosses or they will be assimilated into the horde
and
2) It is still only orc characters we speak off, I dont see any "badass" troll, tauren, Goblin or forsaken characters introduced with this expansion. (Possibly Liadrin will show up and that can be counted as a blood elf character, that would be countered by Khadgar however).

So in conclusion, we KNOW we will get a few Draenei characters and Draenei lore introduced and expanded on this expansion. And we KNOW we get a bit of orc characters and orc lore introduced this expansion....not sure if it is as raidbosses or if they can be counted to the playable Horde faction yet.

My point is that if you do not count the Draenei characters to the Alliance lore as a whole (and you shouldnt, we need more focus on races and less on whole factions), then you can´t Count the the orcs introduced as Horde lore either since infact it can only be counted as Orc lore.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5450
and it makes sense that Grom is dead Elsya.


He wasn't dead in that point of time in a alternate timeline.

While Humans, High Elves or the Alliance weren't on Draenor and actually, the Alliance wasn't even formed at that point of time.

So it makes sense the Alliance only mainly gets Draenei lore and characters because only Draenei were on Draenor back then.

And after all this time, Draenei deserve the spotlight, and Humans can take a backseat.
Edited by Elsya on 11/11/2013 15:31 GMT
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8410
Khadgar and hes old so hes taking a nap, that little draenei girl is ready to go tho.


Haha, sounds like brilliant action!

And yeah I guess it would make sense that they aren't on Draenor at the time we will be there.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8410
We also know that the expansion will offer a fair bit draenei "badass" characters such as Akama, Velen, Maraad and the new paladin gal.


This is one of the reasons I will be playing an Alliance character next expansion, and I'm sure a lot of other people too, although Alliance aren't getting a lot of heroes unlike Horde with Grom and Durotar etc.. I think the Draenei will be fun to battle alongside with.
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90 Human Rogue
8470
11/11/2013 15:27Posted by Lyonessa
I still find it awfully grating that Horde is getting a buffet of all their badasses and heroes handed to them on a plate even if alot of them are dead and dont make sense showing up, they will literally create an alternate universe for them to fit into the lore yet heroes of the alliance that ARE STILL ALIVE, wont show up or do anything because apparently were not worth the effort.


I find this statement quite unfair. I mean yes, this expansion brings back a fair deal of Orc characters from the past that are commonly viewed as quite "Badass". Either they will be loot-pinatas or they will be assimilated into the playable Horde, right now we dont know what it will be.

We also know that the expansion will offer a fair bit draenei "badass" characters such as Akama, Velen, Maraad and the new paladin gal.

We also know that Khadgar will play quite an important role, he is a a human character that "The Alliance" get back as such as well.

with the information on blood elf paladins, we can -assume- that Liadrin will play some role as well, this is not a fact but it is a fair assumption.

My point is that it is unfair to say that the horde get a whole lot old heroes back, because

1) we dont know if they will be raid bosses or they will be assimilated into the horde
and
2) It is still only orc characters we speak off, I dont see any "badass" troll, tauren, Goblin or forsaken characters introduced with this expansion. (Possibly Liadrin will show up and that can be counted as a blood elf character, that would be countered by Khadgar however).

So in conclusion, we KNOW we will get a few Draenei characters and Draenei lore introduced and expanded on this expansion. And we KNOW we get a bit of orc characters and orc lore introduced this expansion....not sure if it is as raidbosses or if they can be counted to the playable Horde faction yet.

My point is that if you do not count the Draenei characters to the Alliance lore as a whole (and you shouldnt, we need more focus on races and less on whole factions), then you can´t Count the the orcs introduced as Horde lore either since infact it can only be counted as Orc lore.


Just feels like you can say this because its not happening to your side:
What if the expansion was called "heroes of azeroth" and instead of going to draenor we go to Azeroth pre-invasion. We meet all Alliance old heroes, muradin, lothar, khadgar, medivh. and the horde gets.... either troll or tauren lore.

Would that feel all that fair to you?

I keep seeing Horde players going "nono youre going to get the most epic and badass Draenei lore ever!" when the reality is that Draenei arent even that interesting to begin with.

Sure this MIGHT be because Blizzard has never actually expanded on draenei before. But thats also why there is no "connection" between the Alliance of today and the Draenei of Draenor.

Atleast the New Horde was founded by Thrall on the principles and teachings of the Old Horde of Draenor he learned from shaman. Having Shamanism at its core, respecting ones ancestors and honoring strength, all concepts he derived from the Old Horde. While yes it is "yet another Orc expansion" atleast the Horde has deep connections to the orcs, and you get to see the continuation of the Hordes current story arc. What if Garrosh had been successful? What if you had never defeated him? Well he would of formed something similar to the Iron Horde we see in the next expansion. What will the Old Horde think about Thralls new horde ideals? What will they think about "The Horde" being led by a troll for instance? Relying on other races to grow stronger. Hell youll probably have to prove your strength to the Old Horde to have their approval, or conquer some, but youll grow stronger through it.

The Draenei simply do not have this background. They dont have this weighty backstory and lore and history to them as the Orcs and the Horde have. Thats why its really difficult for me to see how they can carry the whole expansion on their own, which is what Blizzard is basically telling us with what theyve released. It feels like the Horde story this expansion will deal with philosophical ideals on how they govern themselves and what sacrifices or choices an individual (Thrall) must make for his people (taking up his armor again). And the Alliance story (going by past experience) will have to do with small personal stories because not only does the Alliance seem to lack its own "philosophy" or "character" but having a yet unexplored and minor race like the Draenei be the conduits just seems very unlikely that they will pull this off.

Just cant help but remember how well they handled Worgen : P when Worgen and how they claim "worgen dont feel like a good fit into the alliance" and spacegoats do?
Worgen embodied the Alliance character pretty well actually: a people that value nobility, honor and are maybe a bit too prideful are forced into a situation where they have to defend themselves, do they go savage and kill anything between them and their goal or do they cling to their honor even though its apparent futility?
Similar to how Jaina acted during Dalaran: Wouldnt it be easy just to kill off all the Sunreavers then use the superweapons, manabombs at dalarans disposal to strike back at the Horde? maybe she couldnt destroy Orgrimmar, but there are plenty of other settlements she could hit to sate her vengeance. But Varian refused her.
Or The Scarlet Crusade, how a noble ideal can turn to zealotry and then become corrupted if you dont hold on to your values and honor.
....and the worgen were "a bad fit" bah...

i digress.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5450
I keep seeing Horde players going "nono youre going to get the most epic and badass Draenei lore ever!" when the reality is that Draenei arent even that interesting to begin with.


The underlined part is the problem. Because it's just your opinion. You don't find Draenei lore interesting, fine. I have read of a lot of players who are excited at the thought of Draenei lore and new characters, even Horde ones, and they said they will reroll a Draenei during this expansion.

Even I, I don't like the Alliance in general, but i have to admit im happy Draenei are getting their lore and they totally deserved it and the Humans deserved to get out of their spotlight of the Alliance for once. And so Blizzard listened and they gave to the Alliance only Khadgar, and the rest of the attention is on the Draenei for once. This is a good thing.

11/11/2013 15:50Posted by Dulark
Similar to how Jaina acted during Dalaran: Wouldnt it be easy just to kill off all the Sunreavers then use the superweapons, manabombs at dalarans disposal to strike back at the Horde?


Yeah sure. If she did that, she would be a raid boss just like Garrosh and Arthas now. So listening to Thrall, Kalec and Varian actually saved her life in the end.

And Dalaran hasn't got "superweapons", just the Focusing Iris.
Edited by Elsya on 11/11/2013 16:05 GMT
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34 Human Hunter
13275
Alleria and Turalyon are overrated. By that I mean that no matter what Blizzard do with them we'll be seeing a lot of criticism being hurled their way. Some people will scream in rage if they don't go around killing every member of the Horde that they come across. Others will be up in arms if they're neutral. Yet more will be kicking up a fuss if they aren't.

Heck, just look at this thread and how frustrated some people are over speculation that is essentially not even canon. A lot of people have formed strange ideas as to what Alleria and Turalyon have been doing in their absence and expect them to show up at some point and fit that exact niche.

That's not realistic and I suspect it's a large part as to why Blizzard haven't brought them into the game yet. I'm personally very excited to finally see what the draenei will be doing in WoD, it's a prospect that interests me far more than bringing back two old and largely irrelevant characters for the sake of fan appeasement.
Edited by Graeham on 11/11/2013 16:12 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5695
Just feels like you can say this because its not happening to your side:
What if the expansion was called "heroes of azeroth" and instead of going to draenor we go to Azeroth pre-invasion. We meet all Alliance old heroes, muradin, lothar, khadgar, medivh. and the horde gets.... either troll or tauren lore.

Would that feel all that fair to you?


I would be quite happy actually, troll and tauren desperately needs lore, and if you Count away Muradin, those you mentioned are all humans, So you would not further "Alliance lore" (Brings a good question what Alliance lore would be, but thats Another question). The other difference is that Velen, Akama and Maraad are already Draenei characters established in lore they are not just "some random person". With that said...we truly need to expand on troll and gnome lore, give us more characters from those races to focus on.

I keep seeing Horde players going "nono youre going to get the most epic and badass Draenei lore ever!" when the reality is that Draenei arent even that interesting to begin with.


Personal opinon, not anything you can claim as objective fact. Next

Sure this MIGHT be because Blizzard has never actually expanded on draenei before. But thats also why there is no "connection" between the Alliance of today and the Draenei of Draenor.


So....this expansion is a good possibility to build on Draenei lore and show how they belong with the Alliance? Huh...guess we get some Alliance lore afterall then.

Atleast the New Horde was founded by Thrall on the principles and teachings of the Old Horde of Draenor he learned from shaman. Having Shamanism at its core, respecting ones ancestors and honoring strength, all concepts he derived from the Old Horde. While yes it is "yet another Orc expansion" atleast the Horde has deep connections to the orcs, and you get to see the continuation of the Hordes current story arc. What if Garrosh had been successful? What if you had never defeated him? Well he would of formed something similar to the Iron Horde we see in the next expansion. What will the Old Horde think about Thralls new horde ideals? What will they think about "The Horde" being led by a troll for instance? Relying on other races to grow stronger. Hell youll probably have to prove your strength to the Old Horde to have their approval, or conquer some, but youll grow stronger through it.


As a blood elf I do not feel all that connected to the shamanistic Horde, I doubt Forsaken characters do it either. Yes, this expasion brings quite fascinating possibilites for Orc Lore....again, but still. So yes....this expansion is a Draenei and Orc expansion, never questioned it.

Draenei do not equal the Alliance
and
Orc do not equal the Horde

Both of them give possibilites to show an interaction with respective faction, how this interaction will play out we do not know.

For the record, I think a fair deal Horde players are rather sick and tired of all the attention Garrosh have gotten so far.

The Draenei simply do not have this background. They dont have this weighty backstory and lore and history to them as the Orcs and the Horde have. Thats why its really difficult for me to see how they can carry the whole expansion on their own, which is what Blizzard is basically telling us with what theyve released. It feels like the Horde story this expansion will deal with philosophical ideals on how they govern themselves and what sacrifices or choices an individual (Thrall) must make for his people (taking up his armor again). And the Alliance story (going by past experience) will have to do with small personal stories because not only does the Alliance seem to lack its own "philosophy" or "character" but having a yet unexplored and minor race like the Draenei be the conduits just seems very unlikely that they will pull this off.


The Draenei actually have quite a fair bit of lore to build on, it comes from books and stories I give you that, and they have until now been rather much in the background. The thing is, in the larger picture this expansion focus on the planet Draenor, I Think you are a bit too focused on the narrowed perspective of factions to see that this expansion is more focused on the presevation of a World and less on a faction war and faction lore. This expansion offers the story, the background, and until known unexplored insight of the Life on Draenor and the surroundings that in many ways have formed both the orcs and the draenei, two races whom then in second hand also have ties to two factions.

Just cant help but remember how well they handled Worgen : P when Worgen and how they claim "worgen dont feel like a good fit into the alliance" and spacegoats do?
Worgen embodied the Alliance character pretty well actually: a people that value nobility, honor and are maybe a bit too prideful are forced into a situation where they have to defend themselves, do they go savage and kill anything between them and their goal or do they cling to their honor even though its apparent futility?
Similar to how Jaina acted during Dalaran: Wouldnt it be easy just to kill off all the Sunreavers then use the superweapons, manabombs at dalarans disposal to strike back at the Horde? maybe she couldnt destroy Orgrimmar, but there are plenty of other settlements she could hit to sate her vengeance. But Varian refused her.
Or The Scarlet Crusade, how a noble ideal can turn to zealotry and then become corrupted if you dont hold on to your values and honor.
....and the worgen were "a bad fit" bah...


They handled the worgen in a pretty !@#$ty manner I agree, but what are your solution? Just focus on the dwarves and the humans? because that is what your rant seem to focus on....humans. As a whole I think this is a very good step to make the Alliance as a faction more intresting. Step away from the humanity focus and explore the Culture of other races and how they fit in the Alliance, in what way they contribute to the Alliance and generally why they are in the Alliance at all.

As an example, I may not have liked the storyline at all, but look at the blood elves. Before MoP they felt extremely out of place within the horde...now...I would still say they feel a bit like outsiders, but that also fits them, but overall they fit in the faction a lot more and we have gotten a better understanding of them as a race and nation as well.
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