Time travel, alternate dimensions, reinforcements

55 Draenei Death Knight
6105
Garrosh runs out of soldiers and decides to go back in time to replenish his depleted forces. Seems legit.

Never-ever mind that though, could somebody please explain something to me. Shouldn't there be a difference between traveling trough time and traveling trough alternate realities... usually, at least. Did Blizzard somehow mix the two up and... well, how? Does this even make sense and how does it work in Warcraft?

I mean... in that book where Thrall saves Nozdormu from being-lost-in-time-qq it's stated that there is only one true (or main) timeline and that the other timelines are illusions? Fake? Possibilities created by the magic of the Bronze Dragonflight? I didn't read the book and it's not entirely explain on wowpedia, which I'm disinclined to take as 100% correct with these dodgy interpretations and some similar stuff.

So can anyone explain how alternate timelines work according to that book? How are they created? And how does their classification of being "fake" affect the alternate timeline of WoD?

Did they just simply decide to have proper and very real alternate timelines after all? Doesn't that classify them as different dimensions/realities altogether which should put them out of the domain of Bronze Dragons who merely travel trough time?

And if not, if WoD's timeline is fake after all... how does it get created and how in oblivion does it affect the one true timeline? How can Garrosh just simply go there and gather an army that he plans to use to conquer the main timeline's world?

Does an alternate timeline appear whenever somebody travels trough time without affecting the main timeline directly? Why did we bother with CoT instances if that's the case?

This appears to make no !@#$ing sense whatsoever.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6510
Only other instance of time-travel was with Day of the Dragon where Ronin, some elf and Broxigar end up in the middle of the War of the Ancients. I'd check that up.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
6625
Uh .. not an elf, it was Krasus the prime consort of Alexstraza in his humanoid/elf form or disguise and the time travel was in the trilogy of the War of the Ancients not Day of the Dragon :|
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55 Draenei Death Knight
6105
I think that they went back in time in the proper true main actual timeline and actually slightly changed what happened there, with largely the same results. No mention of alternate timelines or similar problems made, as far as I know. Again, I didn't read the books. *shudder*
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90 Human Paladin
15430
They've added a new rule to time travel in WoW.

CoT = Travel back, make sure the timeline stays the same.
WotA = Travel back, do what you want, our timeline changes.
Cata CoT = All timelines are closed, kill of Moruzond to open up the path to the past, pick up item, go back to present, save present, toss back item to the past even though you lost your powers.

WoD = Travel back, change time only this time it creates a new timeline/realitiy, connect new timeline/reality to our timeline/reality, have fun!

It's cheap, but only a tool to get us there.
Edited by Nobbel on 19/11/2013 00:36 GMT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw

Because enough "Back to the Future" images and vids have been posted.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9805
As far as I know the Aspects were tasked with guarding Azeroth. As such, Nozdormu presided over Azeroth's timelines only. Draenor is another world, though. So I guess the "one true timeline" rule applies only to Azeroth.
However, even though Azeroth is indirectly affected by the change in Draenor's history (the threat of the Iron Horde pouring from the portal), this fact has implications on Azeroth's present only, since here we deal with another, alternate version of Draenor (the fate of Draenor from our past, respectively Outland in our present remains unchanged).
I think that now we have an alternate Draenor which exists in a "time bubble", removed from the timelines much like the Timeless isle itself (i.e. there is no alternate universe, hence no alternate Azeroth either, only a bubbled version of Draenor).
What is still not clear to me is how exactly Blizzard will deal with eliminating the probability of people meeting their “alternate selves”. Since at the time when Garrosh “copied” Draenor and “pasted” it in the time bubble, many of the Draenei and Orcs from our present should have lived there… Probably he was picky and “copied” only a selection of Draenor, excluding the troublesome characters who screwed him up in our timeline?
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55 Draenei Death Knight
6105
What is wrong with you?
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90 Goblin Rogue
7810
Never-ever mind that though, could somebody please explain something to me. Shouldn't there be a difference between traveling trough time and traveling trough alternate realities... usually, at least. Did Blizzard somehow mix the two up and... well, how? Does this even make sense and how does it work in Warcraft?

Every single one of the Caverns of Time instances opens up an "alternative" version of the past, which is muddled with and meddled with, but which does not successfully supercede the "real" history or "our timeline," and so remains in its own little bubble of "alternate timeline" wherein heroes from the future took roles to ensure the present leads to the future they came from.
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90 Human Warrior
10300
They've added a new rule to time travel in WoW.

CoT = Travel back, make sure the timeline stays the same.
WotA = Travel back, do what you want, our timeline changes.
Cata CoT = All timelines are closed, kill of Moruzond to open up the path to the past, pick up item, go back to present, save present, toss back item to the past even though you lost your powers.

WoD = Travel back, change time only this time it creates a new timeline/realitiy, connect new timeline/reality to our timeline/reality, have fun!

It's cheap, but only a tool to get us there.


It's literally as bad as Doctor Who, because the same villains can come back time and time again, because the past is not barred to us... it does get us somewhere, but this expansion is going to feel like a non-canon tangent, a bit like MoP... cmon bliz.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
6625
It's literally as bad as Doctor Who


http://i.qkme.me/3s4rkg.jpg
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12980
Blizzard should really decide what kind of time travel they want in the Warcraft universe.. They can't just take them all without loosing every sense of logic..

If traveling back in time creates alternative realities, there was no reason to go back in time to stop the infinite dragonflight.. They wouldn't change a damn thing for our reality, and therefore making it totally irrelevant..

Make up your mind blizzard, gaddammit!
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
First of all the concept of timeline in wow is that there is only one real timeline while there are other unfinished timelines.

It was the job of the bronze dragonflight to make sure that none of the alternate timelines affect the real one.

Only the aspects have lost their power not the whole dragonflight which means the bronze still have the most knowledge of timeways.

Now as the the OP asks how can Garrosh simply go there, Garrosh is helped by the bronze dragon Kairoz who we helped on Timless Isles with all those vision quests he saw something in them and helped Garrosh get to the WoD timeline.

Yes a new timeline is created whenever someone travels through time but as Nozdormu explained there was only one timeline which survives in the end (Ours ) all other suffer from the End Time we saw in the dungeon.

The point of doing all those CoT dungeons was to keep this real timeline clean

Now for the real problem, i hope i explain it right:
Think of the Azeroths' real timeline in term of your character, chronologically your character fought C'thun then Illidan then Lich King and so on and after the events of Pandaria the Azerothian timeline witness the invasion from a portal which happened to open to the past of another world. Azeroths timeline itself is unaffected by the opening of that portal.
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90 Goblin Priest
15150
19/11/2013 00:08Posted by Tanaara
Did they just simply decide to have proper and very real alternate timelines after all? Doesn't that classify them as different dimensions/realities altogether which should put them out of the domain of Bronze Dragons who merely travel trough time?


As other people have done good jobs on presenting well thought-through theories on how Azeroth's timelines work, I'll not meddle with that.

However, as for the "what changed, Blizz?" question, I think the answer lies in the Timeless Isle weekly quest [Empowering The Hourglass], given to players by Kairoz, the Timewalker / Bronze Dragon.

During the "Seeking Fate" part of the quest chain, Kairoz says the following, and be warned, the quote contains SPOILERS!!

Was that... me? How very interesting.

Now we are beginning to see the shadows between worlds. Was this the future of our world, or simply one possibility? Regardless, our newfound ability to see more deeply into the timeways will allow us to push forward towards the answers we seek.

Allow me some time to continue my research. And be vigilant, hero, for the timeways are as infinite as our enemies.
- http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Seeking_Fate

This seems to indicate, that while the Bronze Dragons have lost their powers, the Timeless Isle seems to have given them a new means to meddle with the Timeways, and perhaps in ways, not possible to them before!
Edited by Moody on 24/01/2014 10:25 GMT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13310
19/11/2013 00:10Posted by Jastalaan
Only other instance of time-travel was with Day of the Dragon where Ronin, some elf and Broxigar end up in the middle of the War of the Ancients. I'd check that up.

That "some elf" was Krasus the humanoid form of Korialstrasz, the mate of Alextrasza
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90 Human Warrior
11365
24/01/2014 10:24Posted by Moody
This seems to indicate, that while the Bronze Dragons have lost their powers, the Timeless Isle seems to have given them a new means to meddle with the Timeways, and perhaps in ways, not possible to them before!


Hm...that´s actually a very nice thought. Even if it´s just speculation, it would indeed solve the inconsistencies between the Caverns of Time storyline and the alternate realities in WoD.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5825
It is true. None of WoD seems to able to explain with logic. Whole caverns of time events seem now pretty useless. We belived we have to go there and save the present and future. Now Garrosh goes back and changes enitre history of Draenor.

Not only this doesn't have any reflection in the real timeline but also impossible is made when the changed past is connected to the present. Seems like a very serious malfuction done in the reality. And everything because of some Dragon grunt named Kairoz. A simple Dragon able to do such things........ unbelivable.

Not to mention we are stuck with two versions of the same world. One screwed up called Outland and the other one which is error and "supposed" illusion called Draenor. This whole expansion seems like one goal to us all. Get Garrosh whoop his butt for good. And clear this mess. Fix this malfunction and make this wrong Draenor non-existant. It should not evevn be there. If it is not possible then we should do bad but only right choise. We should screw up Draenor by ourselves.

I will gladly set up bombs or whatever under Auchidoun and make a magnificent ruin it used to be in TBC. I will make Gorgrond a shattered land slowly swallowed by Twisting Nether. I will corrupt Shadowmoon Valley into ominous wasteland washed over with Demonic energies. And I will personally rise a huge volcano in the middle calling it Hand of Taladris.

This is how the Draenor should be.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
14585
It is a parallel universe, but Garrosh went back in time in that universe, not ours. It makes perfect sense if you just think it over a bit. It's space and time that the Bronze Dragonflight really has control over. They can pass into different realities, which is space. And travel through time, which is obviously time.
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