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Hello my dear pvp forum, here comes another butthurt priest post whining about holy paladins!

And today I am pissed because exorcism is so much better then smite. I know you usually should not directly compared two different classes abilities. However since smite and exorcism are so similar (both lack cooldown, got a cast time, deals direct holy damage, and is the main nuke of both holy paladin and disc/holy priest) I find a comparison to be rather fair.

Here are two screen shots of me doing some smiting and exorcising on level 80 target dummies:
http://data.fuskbugg.se/dipdip/Smite.JPG
http://data.fuskbugg.se/dipdip/exorcism.JPG

As you can see the two abilities deal quite similar damage. However exorcism only got a cast time of 1.5 seconds, compared to the 2 second cast time of talented smite.
But that is not the only disadvantage of smite, to deal comparable damage to exorcism you have to first cast a holy fire (which deals less damage) to get the damage increase from glyph. And you also have to stack evangelism, which will be rather hard in a competitive pvp environment.

To close the gap between these two spells I would suggest lowering the cast time of smite to 1.5 sec talented, this would also make stacking evangelism easier. Since I doubt it even will be possible to stack this buff up to full before it runs out against any decent players in a 2v2 or greater team play environment. An increase to the time evangelism buff last would not hurt either.

Thoughts, ideas, and criticism are welcome!
/target flamers
/cast smite

The thing is holy pala's were always the defensive healer, extremely hard to kill and almost impossible to run oom. The thing that made it balanced was that they didn't have offensive spells.

Priests were exactly the other way around, squishy and oomed pretty easily BUT they had great offense in mana burn and damage.

Not sure how things will be in Cata between the 2, but giving pala's damage feels pretty wrong and game breaking. To balance things a bit I'd say IF pala's choose to use exorsism and become offensive, at least make it hugely costly on their mana. They can then keep their survivability but lose they mana efficiency.

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,
u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

Excorcism needs better scaling in wrathfull gear it hits for 4-5k at 80

at 60 it hits for 1.5k X_X

Same for Advenger shield at 80 it hits for 5k?

at 60 it hits for 2k........

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,
u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

/facepalm

When a healer has OP damage, the least viable solution is to buff the rest of the healers to that level.

And to further illustrate my point, a disc priest should have more damage then a hpala, discs don't wear full plate with a shield afterall. Hpalas spells are overall far more defensive then priests and to up their damage potential over every healer seems quite dumb to say the least.

inb4 "it's fine cry less"

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,

While penance does slightly more dps compared to smite (around 2k more), it also comes with a cooldown, you tend to want to use it for healing (like holy shock), and you dont stack evangelism using penance.
dots are mana expensive and is rather useless when it comes to burst, i. e my devouring plague and sw:p hits for around 900/tick.

u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

And palas got tons of other abilities which causes them to for example have a lot better survivability and mana conservation compared to priests.

Agree that paladins are more sensitive to school lockouts. However that have always been their weakness, just like priests always have had a hard time surviving melee without proper assistance. Now paladins have plenty of instant casts making it easier for them to heal without getting interrupted, they also do not have to rely on sacred shield any more making them much less vulnerable to dispels. This while priests still got nothing new to help them against getting trained, and have it even harder then before against opponent that purge.

But this discussion is mainly about smite and exorcism. I do not want to turn the focus on imbalances in other areas (even though I could go on arguing about why priests may need buffs there as well).

Removing exorcism CD was just further homogenization. Bring back cd on exorcism (not necessarily 15 seconds), paladins aren't supposed to be as offensive healers as priests/shamans, and exorcism isn't supposed to be another copy of wrath/smite/lightning bolt

lololol manaburn lololo, smite, mind control, fear, penance,, shadow word pain, dispell

Honestly, stop complaining about exorcism, its not spamable, you have a 50% chance on holy shock for it to be instant.

If you find a holy paladin chaneling exorcism at you a problem, interupt them.

I cant belive the QQ about holy dps, its just funny. Especially from a class that can mind control, fear, mana burn, several dps spells, and dispell everything.

Paladin defensive capabilities? You guys use drugs right? There arent any left, theyre all dispelable or spellstealble.

Plate? plate means nothing, every class has abilites that ignore or severly reduce armor.
We should be whining about how a discipline priest can CC,mana burn, mind control, heal, shield AND dps at same time.

A paladin can heal, dps (if you can call a holy shock+exorcism dps at all).
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stun

Removing exorcism CD was just further homogenization. Bring back cd on exorcism (not necessarily 15 seconds), paladins aren't supposed to be as offensive healers as priests/shamans, and exorcism isn't supposed to be another copy of wrath/smite/lightning bolt

According to the QQers paladins are suppose to just lie down and die when they see you.

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,

While penance does slightly more dps compared to smite (around 2k more), it also comes with a cooldown, you tend to want to use it for healing (like holy shock), and you dont stack evangelism using penance.
dots are mana expensive and is rather useless when it comes to burst, i. e my devouring plague and sw:p hits for around 900/tick.

u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

And palas got tons of other abilities which causes them to for example have a lot better survivability and mana conservation compared to priests.

Agree that paladins are more sensitive to school lockouts. However that have always been their weakness, just like priests always have had a hard time surviving melee without proper assistance. Now paladins have plenty of instant casts making it easier for them to heal without getting interrupted, they also do not have to rely on sacred shield any more making them much less vulnerable to dispels. This while priests still got nothing new to help them against getting trained, and have it even harder then before against opponent that purge.

But this discussion is mainly about smite and exorcism. I do not want to turn the focus on imbalances in other areas (even though I could go on arguing about why priests may need buffs there as well).

do you mean the 5k glorious holy shock instant cast? or the 0.9 sec divine light, wich is still interuptable easy. Or the fact that you gotta CRIT with holy shock first to be able to pull of the fast heal.

Sure wog is nice, but you need to have holy power to use it.


You dont care if you get interupted, penance is broken you still heal for some even if it gets inteurpted, and switch to other school while we die in 1 lockout now, since there arent any -silence/interupt talents out there anymore.

Using Exorcism and shock as dps will just lower your healing output even more. I know you guys think only of Arena, but you will @*#%up rated with your qq due to not being GODLY in arena anymore.

lololol manaburn lololo, smite, mind control, fear, penance,, shadow word pain, dispell

Honestly, stop complaining about exorcism, its not spamable, you have a 50% chance on holy shock for it to be instant.

If you find a holy paladin chaneling exorcism at you a problem, interupt them.

I cant belive the QQ about holy dps, its just funny. Especially from a class that can mind control, fear, mana burn, several dps spells, and dispell everything.

Paladin defensive capabilities? You guys use drugs right? There arent any left, theyre all dispelable or spellstealble.

Plate? plate means nothing, every class has abilites that ignore or severly reduce armor.

We should be whining about how a discipline priest can CC,mana burn, mind control, heal, shield AND dps at same time.

A paladin can heal, dps (if you can call a holy shock+exorcism dps at all).
Hide
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Bubble 8sec (still gotta hide, pesky shatering throw, mass dispellers out there)
stun

Uggh. I don't think it is even worth the time countering everything this guy says.

If he can't see the obvious - then nothing I will say will make any difference.

Oh well - /facepalm.

One thing that makes smite stronger tho is that with talents you can "randomly" heal nearby people with it. That means when a paladin and priest are both going to be applying pressure to their opponents, you have an easier time getting away with not healing because of that compared to a paladin.

See now, i've got quite a bit of EXP in arena on my other chars, but when i've been at 1800 rating 2.2mmr in 2's ( Yes i know it's a unbalanced bracket) I've only needed it on occasions to 'get the kill' it's not needed as to be spammed.

Should of been left how it was.

but times do change, and we are getting a bigger health pool. So I guess we will see at 85

See now, i've got quite a bit of EXP in arena on my other chars, but when i've been at 1800 rating 2.2mmr in 2's ( Yes i know it's a unbalanced bracket) I've only needed it on occasions to 'get the kill' it's not needed as to be spammed.

Should of been left how it was.

but times do change, and we are getting a bigger health pool. So I guess we will see at 85

I dont give a *#@# about it for holy, I just dont want that they nerf it for retri spec due to priests whining its better then smite. Apparently blizzards listens to whiners complaining about paladins. So now we gotta fight back with mindless QQ to protect our useful talents and abilites to be changed because daddy didnt buy some kid a lollipop.

Exo damage IS a bit over the top, but so is manaburn. Both classes still need tweaks.

I have a pally and i usually support them, but exorcism does waaaaay too much damage for a healer.

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,
u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

This.

Well, disc priests got 2 dots in addition to smite
Hpallys got none
Disc also got a fast hitting penance,
u also got shadow school to psychic scream or mind control
palas only got holy...
so i think it's palas who should be complaining.

facepalm

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