People using Noxxic: Read this

90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
Please stop advising people to use that sorry excuse of an informational website. Noxxic is extremely inaccurate, provides false information based on badly executed simulations and doesn't have nearly enough depth to explain most specs properly.

Use it if you want, by all means, your inadequate performance is your own problem but don't suggest it to unknowing players in an attempt to help them.

You're only making the work of me, Poincare, Ixenn and others more difficult here.

Thank you!
Edited by Cassey on 16/01/2014 16:55 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
6050
k m8
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
6290
Yea, the website shares bad information. It's a shame, really. I don't think that the developers of Noxxic.com have bad intentions and it looks like they've put a lot of effort in the design of their website.

+1
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
10520
I'd love to see some of your work.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
17/01/2014 12:19Posted by Lihonithas
I'd love to see some of your work.


What do you mean, some of my work? Like similar work?

Sure, a quick glance over the forums would've shown you that I wrote this:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8241674300
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
10520
[quote="93371334290"]Sure, a quick glance over the forums would've shown you that I wrote this:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8241674300


A quick glance would have shown me that the author is listed as "Khae". I'm going to assume that this is an alt or a main of yours, or that you changed your character's name. Forgive me, I don't frequent the forums that much, and I'm not a psychic.

However, I will freely admit that this does seem to be a very expansive and well worked-out guide. Frankly, I don't think there's anything bad I can say about it, with the exception of how long it is. That's most certainly not a bad thing for a guide at all, but it might be one of the reasons why some people turn to Noxxic instead: They tell you what to do and what you need straight in your face, with only a compact explanation why.

Also, as amazing as this guide is, there only seems to be one. I'm going to assume that you made more, but the problem is that those are not visible on the first page, or even the second. Most people wouldn't think to venture further than that, and (to my knowledge) it's impossible to trace the exact history of the posts a user made. What if you want to roll Fire, or Arcane? You can find it on Noxxic with the push of a button.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that I don't think you're wrong. But you just make it sound like there are many obviously better resources out there. And although there certainly are better ones, they aren't always as obvious as it seems; Especially for people like me, who only visit the forums every so often and can barely distinguish one user from the other. As such, calling people "inadequate" for using Noxxic seems to be uncalled for.

And, well, let's be honest... Exactly how large can the difference be, and exactly how much does that difference matter outside of hardcore raiding?
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
13005
totally agree, noxxic is terribad, much better to go to http://www.icy-veins.com/
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
A quick glance would have shown me that the author is listed as "Khae". I'm going to assume that this is an alt or a main of yours, or that you changed your character's name. Forgive me, I don't frequent the forums that much, and I'm not a psychic.

Hi, and thanks for your long response I guess.

I'll dissect it one by one.

Well, it does that on the forum listing but when you go in the actual thread I am pretty sure the actual author listed by the post is me.

I do not forgive you for not being a psychic, as it would be wicked cool if you were one. So shame on you for that.

However, I will freely admit that this does seem to be a very expansive and well worked-out guide. Frankly, I don't think there's anything bad I can say about it, with the exception of how long it is. That's most certainly not a bad thing for a guide at all, but it might be one of the reasons why some people turn to Noxxic instead: They tell you what to do and what you need straight in your face, with only a compact explanation why.


No, I think the main reason turn to Noxxic over mine is that Noxxic shows up first in the Google results for an Arcane mage guide. Mine doesn't appear at all, and Icy Veins appears third.

Noxxic is very good at SEO, which is why they are so popular.

Also, as amazing as this guide is, there only seems to be one. I'm going to assume that you made more, but the problem is that those are not visible on the first page, or even the second. Most people wouldn't think to venture further than that, and (to my knowledge) it's impossible to trace the exact history of the posts a user made. What if you want to roll Fire, or Arcane? You can find it on Noxxic with the push of a button.

I have written guides in the past, but this the only one I wrote during this expansion. It is a rewrite of another Arcane mage guide I wrote in the patch 5.1 when Fire got nerfed and I rediscovered the joys of Arcane.

You can find it on Noxxic with the push of a button but that does not take away that there's a much better alternative which offers the same speed and ease of read: Icy Veins.

Let's say there's 3 tiers:

1. Noxxic tier: 'okay' pointers with flaws, but is short and concise.
2. Icy Veins tier: mostly accurate but lacks depth
3. Cassey tier: insanely verbose, accurate and in depth information.

The tiers above me all sacrifice detail for brevity, that's fine, but the more you discard the less accurate your guide will generally become.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that I don't think you're wrong. But you just make it sound like there are many obviously better resources out there. And although there certainly are better ones, they aren't always as obvious as it seems; Especially for people like me, who only visit the forums every so often and can barely distinguish one user from the other. As such, calling people "inadequate" for using Noxxic seems to be uncalled for.


There's Icy Veins which is readily available.

Also, I think you misunderstood the point of this thread. This was mostly a tongue-in-cheek joke I made towards more frequent forum viewers. It was a poke at the amount of people coming here and recommending Noxxic and then us having to explain why it's bad.

That's not your fault though, as you mentioned you don't come here often. But welcome, and please do stay. These forums can use the life.
Edited by Cassey on 18/01/2014 02:03 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warlock
7130
A good guide on Arcane Mage, but I cant be assed reading all that...could you just transcribe that to a video and make a video for youtube about it, I probably wouldnt get bored then, overall very good though
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
18/01/2014 10:25Posted by Crystalblack
A good guide on Arcane Mage, but I cant be assed reading all that...could you just transcribe that to a video and make a video for youtube about it, I probably wouldnt get bored then, overall very good though


Maybe. It's a long guide, it would make a long video. You can skim over a lot of it.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13110
Tbh, I do not see the problem, the arcane spec guide for icyveins/yours/noxxic is pretty much the same, the only difference is that you speak more of "played" way while they speak for new players, the info there is to get you started, same as for example Icyveins raid guides, it tells the BASIC, while you go into in-depth. And even then when I read your guide, you speak from your own PoV of how you play arcane mage. From what I read and understood is that you as dps are brought to just be that, a dps for doing dps, while other mages like me have different jobs while doing the dps, I mean no offence or disrespect but keep in mind that before you call noxxic bad, they are there to help players, appriciate their effort to help others. I do see the problem with false info but instead of just making random forum post, give noxxic a msg or sign-up for Arcane mage guide? They accept all info/help.

Might be a bit complicated reading but since I cant find a way to change this forum template I am typing/posting fast since it hurts my eye to be here long, I am sorry. Also, this was not flaming/disregard for your work, just a reminder.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
I mean no offence or disrespect but keep in mind that before you call noxxic bad, they are there to help players, appriciate their effort to help others

I can call Noxxic bad because I have the right to be critical of other websites.

Noxxic is terrible. It is a site that tries to lure people with fancy graphics and gets a good amount of traffic thanks to lot of good search engine optimization. They probably make a good amount of money off from ads. I don't think it's a genuine effort to really make people improve at their game, considering how inaccurate most of their guides are. Just a search engine advertising trap.

Also... learn about punctuation, please. I got a headache trying to read your post.
Edited by Cassey on 18/01/2014 14:17 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
5125
18/01/2014 13:59Posted by Tinary
From what I read and understood is that you as dps are brought to just be that, a dps for doing dps, while other mages like me have different jobs while doing the dps, I mean no offence or disrespect but keep in mind that before you call noxxic bad, they are there to help players

Since mages are mostly a dps class there's no real problem with this approach. There's little utility for mages in raids, cast TW, soak something huge every 1.5 minutes or a lengthy soak which is on 5min cd, and also frost can flash some cc when needed (but really, when it's really needed? :D). Other than that it's down to doing dps.

As for noxxic, it has so many issues that it's hard to discern them all since they're all blended together.

First of all they're simming rather than actually playing and put these fancy dps charts from sims. This misguides new players because of two reasons:
1. Assuming simc is correct, then someone new to the class has about zero chance of ever reaching that dps even in bis gear.
2. Simc is wrong about many classes/specs, not because it's bad, but because it's too general and making a good action list for all classes and specs is impossible. Mostly because it would require special cases and exceptions for some specs.

The guides are built upon simc's results so there are very strange things in them, like suggesting frost and fire specs to use RoP (which btw hampers your ability to do other things than dps, and also SoO is movement heavy so this talent is even bad from dps perspective). Recommending arcane to always use frost armor when in fact there are only about 4 fights which warrant its use. And mentioning absolutely nothing about haste breakpoints for frost while telling to reforge haste>mastery, without breakpoints it leads to a very complicated play style (or over reliance on addons) which fairly few people practice.

And there are obvious errors even with simc in mind, like in the frost guide suggesting pure int or purple int gems.
Edited by Poincare on 19/01/2014 00:13 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13110
Yes, I do understand all that but keep in mind that this playerbase has changed over years, noxxic is simple and understandable by the "new" playerbase who are mostly younger players, breakpoints and so on, usually make players roll some class which doesnt have them. Hence the reason why there are so many DK's and warriors or so on, the faceroll dps classes who use the simple rotation and simple gemming/reforge. I meant no offence when I said that dont be mad at noxxic, it is helpful and arent we all supposed to be that? Help new players? There are "advanced" guides for players who have been playing and in my honest opinion, once you get the basic from noxxic and wish to be better you will read more or actually think more. I, when I picked up mage, did read noxxic first and when I did felt that I could do more started doing more simcrafting and read advanced guides or did a bit math to see the living bomb breakpoints with and without my racials/raidcomp/trinket procs/glyphs, but still the basic came from the noxxic. I do understand the gemming is wrong, the haste>mastery is somewhat wrong but its the basic, kept in mind that those are the LFR heros who read it cause those who go futher into normal or heroic understand their class better than to read noxxic or take it as pure gold. I think I saw somewhere where they said not to take it as 100% true since its done by Noxxic visitors and players testing specs and running them trough simcrafts.

All in all, just bare in mind that they are there to help players get started their class/alts as simple as they can. Getting better is their own job. Also most players would be scared to see charts/breakpoints table and so on when they start the class.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
12560
This message has been brought to you by: icy-veins.com! Super 1337 guides for the b3st mages xD

Come on now, stop being so cutting edge.
The website works wonders for new people to just read up on some small things, and that is what the website is for. It's for new and not very experienced players to read up on some small things.

If you consider yourself just a tiny, tiny bit serious with your class, you shouldn't need to look up on any sort of guides like this. Not Noxxic, not icy-veins, nada. You'd do better to read up on mmo-champion class forums to get the newest cutting-edge information.

So stop whining about these websites ffs. They aren't for you.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
2005
As Cassey knows i told somebody to go to noxxic. It did helped me and yes didnt answer al of my questions and maybe taught me the wrong things..

The guide Cassey maybe has correct info in it but as somebody mentioned above i rather like to scroll through noxxic to check pvp/pve - class and spec then reading a big Tread like Cassey's guide.

I see all of you are very fan of icy-veins but i dislike the way they've set up the site just allot. The icon's spread everywhere.. and i dont know, just doesnt make it happen for me.

One thing tho. In the Arcane spec guide of Icy-veins said you should use Mage armor for dps. Then later on the guide you saw changes made per patch and it said you should use Frost armor over Mage armor again. Whats up with this? What is better then?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
20/01/2014 10:43Posted by Elerin
As Cassey knows i told somebody to go to noxxic. It did helped me and yes didnt answer al of my questions and maybe taught me the wrong things..

The guide Cassey maybe has correct info in it but as somebody mentioned above i rather like to scroll through noxxic to check pvp/pve - class and spec then reading a big Tread like Cassey's guide.

I see all of you are very fan of icy-veins but i dislike the way they've set up the site just allot. The icon's spread everywhere.. and i dont know, just doesnt make it happen for me.

It's fine to use whatever you like, the point of the thread was that there's people here trying to give people answers on their questions; we try to do that in depth and accurately. It is a bit annoying when people come over here and suggest Noxxic out of good intentions, but all they do is ill inform someone. That is all.

One thing tho. In the Arcane spec guide of Icy-veins said you should use Mage armor for dps. Then later on the guide you saw changes made per patch and it said you should use Frost armor over Mage armor again. Whats up with this? What is better then?

The answer is 'both'.

This is where my guide is better than Icy Veins. There's no right armour to use. Frost Armour and Mage Armour are really close to one another in value, and the better option depends entirely on your gear.

20/01/2014 10:20Posted by Ezzpify
This message has been brought to you by: icy-veins.com! Super 1337 guides for the b3st mages xD

Come on now, stop being so cutting edge.
The website works wonders for new people to just read up on some small things, and that is what the website is for. It's for new and not very experienced players to read up on some small things.

So is Icy Veins, both present information in an easy to digest format for both classes. Icy Veins simply is more accurate. I often enough see raiders (not the best ones) use Noxxic and recommend it here.

Truth to be told, I don't care WHAT you use, but I do care what you suggest to others. Misinforming makes the help we're trying to give on the forums more difficult.

If you consider yourself just a tiny, tiny bit serious with your class, you shouldn't need to look up on any sort of guides like this. Not Noxxic, not icy-veins, nada. You'd do better to read up on mmo-champion class forums to get the newest cutting-edge information.

So stop whining about these websites ffs. They aren't for you.

Lol MMO-Champion class forums. Why would anyone want to hang out on MMO-Circle Jerc.

I can criticise websites if I want, and I have. Whining is different than being critical and informing people that said website is rubbish.

Now shoo.
Edited by Cassey on 20/01/2014 10:58 GMT
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
2005
Thanks cassey and once again im sorry giving people wrong information ;) Just thought i was doing something helpfull, even with just giving the link haha :D

I think i'll go mass mastery..
I like the idea of haste, so i cast faster, dotts tick faster but it means i burn mana faster too, even tho it replenishes faster too,

I think mastery will be more of my playstyle once i gain the gair, and the other passive may be worth it just a lil more
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
6070
Lol MMO-Champion class forums. Why would anyone want to hang out on MMO-Circle Jerc..


Rofl so basically the only place you want people to read is the official forums, which only has 1 guide for 1 spec, and that's yours. and barely any good mages at all come to post. Yeah great advice.

Your posts are just so annoying. When you made that emo drama queen post about quitting way back when, I was actually over the moon. Then you came back to spread your aids again.

Here's a fact. You're not a good player. You're not a good guide writer. You are pretentious, annoying, and slightly autistic. You need to go away.

PS. Stop calling people out on spelling/grammar when you can't even spell a four letter word correctly. Jerk is spelt with a K not a C. Douchebag.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15840
21/01/2014 21:20Posted by Frenikk
Lol MMO-Champion class forums. Why would anyone want to hang out on MMO-Circle Jerc..


Rofl so basically the only place you want people to read is the official forums, which only has 1 guide for 1 spec, and that's yours. and barely any good mages at all come to post. Yeah great advice.

Your posts are just so annoying. When you made that emo drama queen post about quitting way back when, I was actually over the moon. Then you came back to spread your aids again.

Here's a fact. You're not a good player. You're not a good guide writer. You are pretentious, annoying, and slightly autistic. You need to go away.

PS. Stop calling people out on spelling/grammar when you can't even spell a four letter word correctly. Jerk is spelt with a K not a C. Douchebag.


Do you need a hug?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]