DPS meter

General Discussion
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I never understood the fuzz about damage numbers in Diablo III.

One of the first things I did when I played the game – and even in Beta – was to turn off all the options to have damage numbers shown on hits and crits and what not. It just doesn't feel as if numbers belong in a Diablo game to me.

What I always felt all the Diablo games accomplished really well was to visually communicate how hard you hit something for. The monsters die instantly, the corpses fly across the screen, and you're left standing in a total carnage of death and destruction — that's indicative of good damage.

Numbers work well in something like World of Warcraft, because the monsters there don't have fancy death animations, and the combat is more static and less fluid than in Diablo. In World of Warcraft the goal is often to replicate a situation (a boss fight for example), but slightly better than last time you did it. In that situation it is crucial to know how much damage you did and such, so you can perfect your performance a little.
In Diablo you don't learn strategies and perfect tactics for boss fights or rifts or anything. It's all dynamic, and therefore the numbers don't mean much. It's more about finding a comfort zone where you perform adequately, and less about meeting some designated checkmark.

Alas, no need for a dps meters. Damage numbers are but flavor in Diablo games.
Leave the DPS meters in wow. You want one that badly, go play that.
17/04/2014 11:34Posted by straudz
I'm one of those who did their time in WoW, and very familiar with dps meters.

That function is HIGHLY irrelevant in Diablo. This game is not a DD simulator where you pick a target and keep hitting it without stepping on the fire. It's called hack'n slash, action RPG for a reason. And anything that promotes variety, more action, more genuine slashing is welcome imho. In this case, lack of precise damage calculation.

I believe there shouldn't even be a calculated number on character sheet. It's damaging players' enjoyment of the game. I see many players are just hunting items with more numbers instead of trying out strategies and builds.

This is where the problem is. You can't effectively try out different builds or strategies because you can't reliably test the differences between them. If I had a damage breakdown I could tell exactly what happens when I put on firewalkers or how much damage the proc from thunderfury is doing. I could compare runes for different abilities or see the difference between trading off elemental damage for something else. Right now we don't have the tools to reliably and accurately test the choices we're making with gear and builds. I don't care if the meter tells me what kind of damage other players are doing. I just want to see what my character is doing.
Another Aspect of the DMG-Meter Tools, Combat Logs and so on, you do forget: we can definitely say that a skill works. just now, who knows whether an effect of an item worsks as intended? who can truly say, that the DMG really is 115% when procced? nobody can say this. but with some logs, we can filter it and then we can confirm it.

so that has some advantage even for the developers that get more detailed information about bugs and balancing.
And nobody says, that you have to use the tools or mods (if API). you can play it like you're doing it right now.
And if you say "meh, then the whole dmg compare thing goes on", then get to reality. it's happening right now! Websites like diabloprogress.com already present their calculations in DPS in comparison with the whole world. so it wouldn't make anything different from now.

And YOU have always the choice: do it or not. if you don't want to compare your dmg with others, then just don't do it. But don't deny that analytic tools to everybody that would like to have it.

it's like in the real world. you don't believe your manager when he says that he transfered the whole amount of wage. you go check it. So let's do us the same. Believe is good but knowledge is better.
Personally this so called "damage" number is soooo wrong ie mine is telling me around 1 mill dps but ehh its _ALOT_ more that i dish out so that is just merely a reference that tells you nearly none at all.. =/ specially for those who ad tons and tons of elemental damage etc.
Isn't it possible to have a personal DPS meter that will just show your own DPS and no one else's?
17/04/2014 10:14Posted by Ulvareth
Well said! We know that a DPS meter is a fairly frequent request and you can be sure that we’ve talked about it. Ultimately though, we feel that a DPS meter would put too much focus on one single aspect of the game and we currently don't have any plans to implement one.

Does not seem to me like most, who are actually interested in analyzing their performance, would even want a DPS meter. I agree with anyone who says it is not required and would bring with it nothing good.

But what we could use is some kind of combat log, so that we can measure all aspects of our gameplay in detail, by that I really do mean all aspects of game. It would allow us to look at the small details of our build, compare runes and first hand see how various changes would affect our game play; both damage dealt, received, as well as mitigated and healed.
They just need to add/fix/change something since these numbers we currently have are "meh"

ie im running at 6.7mill toughness 19k healing while a friend runs 11mill toughness and 10k healing he dies nearly instantly while im just bashing the monsters looking on his corpse and giggling.

what im trying to say is that those numbers mean nearly nothing... SPECIALLY damage number.
You know what would be really useful? If you could mouse-over your skills in the bar and a window popped up and showed how much damage is your skill is doing per cast.

You know, just like a certain free popular moba game out there...
Blizzard will never implement a DPS meter because the are huge discrepancies between classes DPS and people will get mad when they found out.
I look more strategically and build more than watching a dps meters. this will only lead to that people will stare yourself blind on the dps meters Whose that makes most dps. and this is only going to create drama in the group who does x more dps and kick those who make less, then it's more a contest to judge out the player more than playing the game in full as it should be played against npc, not against each other, which will bring bad experience in the group as a whole.

The only reason i see some people want to have an dps meter is to compete and judge out each other in group especially in randoms group, that's not what the game is about and that's what it will end up with sad but true. in solo, it would work well for there you have no-one to compete and judge out each other, but there are some groups that enjoy to trigger drama and want be the best so it's best not to have it in the group if they plan to implement this in the future. that´s my opinion about it.
This is why I have always asked for a dps meter that judges you on the overall dps you do do in your rift/run.

A dead character does no dps and the overall meter would push players to make their char the best it can be overall including survivability.

Maybe a damage taken meter for the support chars too?

Oh go on x
these topics

how hard is it to wrap your head around this community not being trustworthy with this feature at all
Why would this be a bad thing??! People just wanna know if its better to use +20% lightning damage or 70% crit damage. And afaik you can't calculate that properly cause you don't know the formula that sums it all up.
18/04/2014 03:21Posted by Magnelien
what im trying to say is that those numbers mean nearly nothing... SPECIALLY damage number.

DPS, Toughness and Healing are stats that are meant to serve as quick way to assess your general character power. The numerous individual stats on your character sheet, perks granted by your legendary items, and various skill options all need to be considered however if you wish to analyse your combat efficiency thoroughly. This is the Diablo III reality and a single legendary affix can make a hero with surprisingly low values perform at a level that is unachievable for those with higher raw stats but wielding no special legendary powers.

Nevertheless those stats can still be used for a surface check for the gear and characters - especially if you keep in mind the stats marked with adjacent orange diamond (that are not calculated into either DPS, toughness or healing), and how crucial can they be in increasing your real damage output or survivability. We are definitely open to hear your feedback on how these aggregate stats could be improved so as to better indicate the power of your heroes so please keep it coming.
17/04/2014 13:20Posted by Derrek
Why not a "soft" meter? Let me explain (this comes from a diablo-clone called dungeon hunter, 4 player co-op).:

Instead of a meter, the person who done the most damage so far in the party get a sword next to his portrait.

But wait, there's more! There's a shield for the player who took the most damage, a heart for the player who done the most healing, a gold icon for the one who looted the most gold,...

This encourages some friendly competition, and it's just something fun to have. No reasons at all to kick a person or to focus your build on. You never see the actual dps or who is the second or third or last, just the best...

I don't see a reason not to implement this!

Came hear to suggest something similar, your ideas better..


No really, read his post, and then implement it!! FTW
i have a mad idea ^^,

why not have some sort of a "Damage Tree" that we can open and check the behaviour of our weapons, it will be by type of damage (example fire, poison, etc), then we will have the active spells, passive skills ,the crit chance. then CHD,

One could also imagine that by leveling you can invest "points" in a type of damage, many of us are trying to have a "damage type hero" (if we can call it like that)

Anyway, as i said just a mad idea :)

Have a nice WE all!
There are so many valid reasons to add a Meter system, or at the very least a combat log. To simply dismiss it raises the question of why even show any numbers in the game? I mean I understand the current view is not to put it in but that's ignoring a heap of benefits but I also see there are valid reasons not to but how negatively would the players actually find it? Being able to compare against friends is a fun activity and I don't recall many remove addons from WoW posts!

Those of you saying we don't want WoW, listen no one forces you to have an addon in that game but if you are a damage class and haven't got ace mechanics and intimate class knowledge knowing what other people are doing can be very motivating. Additionally damage meters in WoW have gone beyond dps and damage dealt, they also offer breakdowns of skills used and damage taken as well as uptimes of various buffs and debuffs. It is not unreasonable to even suggest that it is possible to add in contributions like monk auras and other class buffs although it depends on how the combat is logged or else you will end up with a case where the parsers had to guess what was a shield from a skill and what wasn't.

Now Blizzard might be afraid of outcry regarding skills and honestly they should be the fact that players found a way to use a passive like sharpshooter is indicative of how easy it is for testing to be relatively minor on their part. A meter would provide useful information where players can make conscientious and informed posts about skills and give comparisons. By letting the players dabble in the science of balance it would save hours on the part of designers trying to effectively do guess work with their tools. Skill use is practically a NP-Hard problem no matter how much time you throw at it you will always miss something and some skills simply aren't worth using.

Having a meter that shows damage taken and sources could be very useful for tank group players enabling them to optimize which resists they have more or less of and enabling them to decide whether it's worth using sets like blackthornes. This again provides more free feedback for blizzard.

So here's the question is blizzard absolutely afraid of community feedback? In the end a game about killing monsters quickly be it through solo efforts or good group play. Most people are going to try maximize their damage done and minimize their damage taken. A meter would allow more people to actually see the difference between huge crits and edps. Now if I had all the time in the world I could code a diablo damage simulator but 99.9% of the player base probably couldn't or like me don't have the time.

So here's a request and a sort of compromise and first step towards meters. While I would love a combat log I realise that may be very internal and not vetted for public use like WoW's. I think a first step would be to actually update the tooltips of skills to be more detailed and actually adjust to gear changes. Should this provoke negative outcomes then you have reason for not implementing meters and vice-versa. The major fear is that the public community are going to abuse players for lack of damage I don't see this as being a major issue, I played a shadow priest in vanilla WoW one of the lowest dps classes (assumed) and never really ran into much criticism for doing low damage! In WoW you were far more likely to face negativity for tanking poorly, healing inefficiently or breaking crowd control.

At the end of the day the player base and I can't force blizzard to do anything however I don't find any conflict to allowing a meter system should it provide sufficient information. It would sure help solve a lot of theory questions that at best sometimes I can only add conjecture because there's a lack of information. Until then I imagine most people with any desire to optimize single target dps will use something like Ghom to do so. This activity takes time but it does give a clear picture about certain skills.

I like to think of diablo 3 as an optimization problem where I have a bunch of objective constraints to optimize and my only hard constraints are I must have a resource spender and something that can break barricades (came up with a build during the sharpshooter 'bug' where I couldn't break barricades) the rest is increasing the stats to best meet my aims be it to run a higher torment level or to have a ton of damage. Either way some balance of stats is required more so than just pure emphasis on damage but that doesn't mean others don't have that choice and aren't doing exactly that. D3Progress shows us that some people go out of their way for sheet dps! I don't see why real world dps should be such a hidden mystery to the majority of players.

TLDR: It would be nice to have better tooltips first, ideally a combat log system for those of us interested in optimization of gear and basically this game is solely about damaging monsters while surviving. Again why have numbers showing at all if not for us to have information as to what damage is done? All a meter request is doing is giving these numbers a recorded home! Blizzard could use the feedback to enhance the game!
Just add the damn damage meter, everyone is asking for one, shouldn't be that hard to implement it, right? Please?


twitch.tv/devizzlive - [HARDCORE STREAM] Crusader with top 1 strength in the world accorindg to DIabloProgress! :O
17/04/2014 10:14Posted by Ulvareth
we feel that a DPS meter would put too much focus on one single aspect of the game and we currently don't have any plans to implement one.

that's good to hear! thanks! :-)

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