Armor vs Resists vs Vitality

Wizard
This is more of a general question, not really specific to any character. My thoughts are the following.

- Vitality gives you the most toughness, but that is "bad" toughness that is hard to heal if the fight takes long. So it's best for farming on lower difficulties (no long fights). The problem is where to draw the line when it's not the most effective?
- After the cap on primary attributes and the fact that resists didn't scale up with gear at lvl 70 (while the requirements for the same resisting % did), I feel like they are only worth it as from the gems in armor sockets. But are they even worth that or the int gems are better?
- The armor looks better compared to resists. But I don't understand at all what is the desired balance of armor and vitality.

So what do you prefer and why?
resist-vitality-armor..

resist reduce incoming damages. Armor as well but its easier to get more AR than armor (sockets, etc) and the less damage u receive, the better performance u will get from loh, lok, and lps..vitality increases your health pool, so it should be balanced with resist.. more hp and less damage taken, it will make you stay longer on fights
after 1300 resist 300 armor is better than 100 all res so the better thoughness is by having the max ress, armor and direct dmg reduction so in that way your life regen and loh is mutch more efective
17/04/2014 16:23Posted by grezel
resist-vitality-armor..

resist reduce incoming damages. Armor as well but its easier to get more AR than armor (sockets, etc) and the less damage u receive, the better performance u will get from loh, lok, and lps..vitality increases your health pool, so it should be balanced with resist.. more hp and less damage taken, it will make you stay longer on fights
are you saying that I should choose resists over vitality? and vitality over armor?
17/04/2014 17:07Posted by Cheerio
are you saying that I should choose resists over vitality? and vitality over armor?


what i mean is that you should balance it.get as much ar as possible as well as vitality..high AR with low vitality will kill you fast since you will receive low damage but low hp to consume, u will die fast..high vit with low AR otoh, u have high hp to consume but u will receive a lot of damage, u will die fast as well..its all about balance, not getting higher of the other.
17/04/2014 17:16Posted by grezel
17/04/2014 17:07Posted by Cheerio
are you saying that I should choose resists over vitality? and vitality over armor?


what i mean is that you should balance it.get as much ar as possible as well as vitality..high AR with low vitality will kill you fast since you will receive low damage but low hp to consume, u will die fast..high vit with low AR otoh, u have high hp to consume but u will receive a lot of damage, u will die fast as well..its all about balance, not getting higher of the other.

I need specifics. General idea that balance is needed is not really helping.
there are no specifics. sure, you can min-max mathing of what's the best option for current situation, but as soon as you change the item in your slot, situation can changing.

my suggestions:
A. without any buffs, make sure, that ratio between your toughness and health pool is higher than 10 to 1 (by looking at your profile, you should be well past that). 10 to 1 is bare minimum.

B. with typical ingame buffs, try to achieve toughness to health pool ratio of 20 to 1. i know that toughness seems silly number, but there are some pointers to it. 20 to 1 ratio means generally/on everage 95% damage reduction againt level 70 mobs.

it does not make a difference overall if you boost armor or AR, 95% MIT is the thing to get. This is primary "objective".

C. Buffer up. Even with super high MIT, you have to be able to survive a high damaging blast. Molten explosion is a good example, or a fallen maniac exploding on you. You HAVE to survive at least one or better two blasts. You have to be able to endure occasional burst damage.This is where your health pool kicks in. anything less than 300k will probably not do it well. 300K hp at 95% mit is 6M toughness. For low torment (1-2), this should be fine. Going higher, you have to raise it to probably 10M or past that (buffed).

ar vs armor is a balance thing and right advice for one isn't neccessarily right advice for the other. Generally, for decently geared wizard, high armor rolling spots (helm, chest, pants) should be equipped with armor roll (if you have to choose between Ar or armor), while lower rolling spots (other pieces) are best equipped with AR. On some pieces it might make sense to go both, but definetely not many. You still have to somehow stack damage and other utilities also and there is just not enough primary rolls to splurge on ar+armor.
After that, it makes sense to max out your defensive armor% paragon stats and go for Ice armor: crystallize, if you can afford MIT armor (not have to go power of the storm for cost reduction for example). IAC is probably the best overall MIT armor for a wizard (unless you're kiting prowess).
Though a note: IAC boost your armor (besides 12% melee). If you stacking just armor and no AR at all, IACmay actually not be the way to go. But typically (less than say 8K armor from the gear) and 1300+ resists, IAC is great.
There are people saying that wizards that focus on toughness are doing it wrong.
I disagree with this a bit.

With my current setup I have 700k DPS en 21 mil toughness (does not show up in profile this high).
I can easily channel disintegrate while being hit and don't have to move at all for elite packs.
While people with 1+ mil dps and 10 mil toughness have to move all the time cause they are being hit hard.

In the end my avarage dmg is lower but my actual damage is higher due to not having to move all the time.

I can't give you any numbers either on what's best to do but I try to balance things aswell.
On my belt, chest and shoulders I choose armor.
On pants ring and boots I choose for AR.

With some AR gems, AR and armor from energy armor/prismatic armor, unwavering will and dominance T4 is pretty good to do.
I didn't wan to start a new thread of the same topic so let me revive this one.

First question:
Am i thinking about damage reduction corectly?
I have ~11k armour and ~2k all resist.
I've been told to reroll my armour stats to AR as this will give me better damage mitigation, but this don't sound right as my;
Armour gives 77% reduction
All resist gives 84% reduction
Would it not make scene to try get them to be equal, say 80% reduction, which would give me better damage reduction then one being much higher than the other? Or am I thinking about the math wrong?

Second question:
I have 80k hp, (I die 1 time per rift), if I were to have NO vitality stats on my items, leave my hp at base pool of 12k, can i survive if all my vitality is rerolled into RA/Armour?
I say this because I have played with 40k hp and didn't have enough hp regeneration to support this, which did not work out, so if i reroll all my vitality to ra/armour my regeneration will be all too nice, but would this work?
I am running with 2k AR, 10.5k Armor, 7% range and melee red, 23.5% elite reduction and 168k HP pool. I don't have problem surviving T4 but unfortunately I am nit there dmg wise (takes too long). I can stack up MW - Deflection up to 34k (which is about 18%of my HP pool) - this allows me to trigger illusionist without loosing HP.

With this stats I have found that 9.5k LpS and 4.5k LpK is enough to heal me very quickly. Plus set bonus from Chantodo's even speeds this up.

You just have to find sweet spot where you feel comfortable.

That's it.
It is easier to get Vit boost after you have 1.5 k AR. Armour is definitely the worse of all. However, if you use barrier builds (dominance, deflection, barrier blade), you don’t need too much Vit.

You need 2.7k AR to get 90% reduction. 1.2k AR to get 80% reduction. You can see the diminishing return become really high after you have 1.2k AR. Vit has no diminishing return and much easier to get through gear reroll and gems. When you level up enough, eventually you will get enough int to boost AR to whatever value you want anyway.

I like to invest in VIT if necessary but just need enough. When you have enough toughness, damage reduction from elite starts to get better at end game because the elites are actually the ones would actually kill you at that point.
armor>res>vit for wizards.. as resists come from int and vitality is just bad toughness stat...
28/04/2014 09:53Posted by richnieh
It is easier to get Vit boost after you have 1.5 k AR. Armour is definitely the worse of all. However, if you use barrier builds (dominance, deflection, barrier blade), you don’t need too much Vit.

You need 2.7k AR to get 90% reduction. 1.2k AR to get 80% reduction. You can see the diminishing return become really high after you have 1.2k AR. Vit has no diminishing return and much easier to get through gear reroll and gems. When you level up enough, eventually you will get enough int to boost AR to whatever value you want anyway.

I like to invest in VIT if necessary but just need enough. When you have enough toughness, damage reduction from elite starts to get better at end game because the elites are actually the ones would actually kill you at that point.


Difference between 90% and 80% in AR factor is actually 50% dmg difference.
If you have 80% Fire resist you take 20% dmg from fire,if you have 90% you get only 10%.
Stacking vitality without high AR and armor is useless.

2300-2500 AR,500-600k health and rest in armor.
Plus unity on you and follower and a relic that makes follower immortal.
Also you need Life After Kill and health globes and potions heal increase,wizards rely heavily on this.
Pretty much enough to survive t6.
The most part of pants have up to 750 armor. (Rnd is 400-500, but enchant is 500 - 750)

I think the best part stack armor is chest armor and pants.

For the some reason, the helm is good to stack vit and int, it have up to 750.
29/04/2014 02:43Posted by zhengxianwei
The most part of pants have up to 750 armor. (Rnd is 400-500, but enchant is 500 - 750)

I think the best part stack armor is chest armor and pants.

For the some reason, the helm is good to stack vit and int, it have up to 750.


Gloves,weapon,source and amulet can give you 750 vitality.
thx a million. my rifting capabilities have jus shot up incredibly.
Can confirm Armor>AR>Vitality even more with force armor doing the buffer thing for incoming burst damage.
I Just use goldwrap belt+boon gem ( the gold explosion gem) combo lately for rifts/cashual runs and its cool.makes me immortal in t6 :)
42% melee/missle/elite reduction 85% armor red., 85% res. all. 12k life, 26k lps, awareness, kicks in occasionally. torment 1 very playable. gotta dodge, or avoid certain attacks, better than just standing there, gets boring. most fun way i've found to play. looking for community, that feels same way.

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