Upcoming Change - Preparation (Punishment)

Demon Hunter
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With Patch 2.1 around the corner, many classes are receiving some substantial revisions to core functionalities. These changes have equally substantial philosophy behind them, so we want to prepare you in advance for the kinds of adjustments you should expect.

Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves without their defensive or utility skills, often resulting in more frequent character death. To address this, we are reworking this rune to no longer cost Discipline, but have a 20 second cooldown.

While this change may initially seem severe, it has several major benefits we hope players will take the opportunity to explore and experiment with:
  • All Discipline is now reserved for defensive and utility skills, encouraging Demon Hunters to take greater advantage of these skills.
  • Nightstalker will feel less mandatory in conjunction with Punishment, freeing up a Passive slot in many builds.
  • If you choose to keep Preparation (Punishment) in your build, the cooldown corresponds with roughly how long it would take to regenerate the appropriate amount of Discipline (unless you had a large amount of Resource Cost Reduction).
  • Cooldown Reduction is now a more attractive stat, and this may open up new CDR-focused builds.

We know this changes builds and the gameplay pattern for some Demon Hunters. We’re also working hard to adjust other skills as well as introduce Legendary items both in this patch and constantly in the future in order to continue opening up new and exciting ways to play.

This change will soon be available on the PTR, and we hope that you will take the opportunity to try it out and let us know how it feels. We're eager to hear your feedback on this and other changes coming in Patch 2.1.
Please please please just No

Take this change and shove it back up the developers backsides with razorblades attached

Alternatively just give all demon hunters 1 spec (sentries)

Bunch of clueless coding monkeys
Who uses that when sentries builds is the most efficient anyway, and we were because of that build already using CDR ? Tsss...

Give us more versatility instead of making that rune COMPLETELY useless (20 second for some hatred ? Worth of 2 CA ? LOL.)
18/06/2014 12:42Posted by Shaa
Who uses that when sentries builds is the most efficient anyway, and we were because of that build already using CDR ? Tsss...

Give us more versatility instead of making that rune COMPLETELY useless (20 second for some hatred ? Worth of 2 CA ? LOL.)


^this.
Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves without their defensive or utility skills, often resulting in more frequent character death. To address this, we are reworking this rune to no longer cost Discipline, but have a 20 second cooldown.


LOL

Let me Fix it for you.

Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves spamming CA. ...and ..wait for it ...it was broken even tho the DH couldn t 1 shot the elites on T6 like the WDs do.

This is what happens when you try to balance things out based on data on not by playing the damn class.

The problem with the Dh was always the hatred generation/ regeneration. But you didn't fix that..no.. you just went so far and made the DH have 4 hate base regen instead of 5 like it was before RoS. Our generators are a joke damage wise. beside the 6 hatred rune all of them are useless. That its what was bad and made players rely on preparation.
with this change you just kill the last control we have over our resources. That was the fun. to think about how much discipline you converse to dps but still have some to use vault or smoke screen.
Not the use of preparation made DHs die but the bad defense the DH gets/got from dodge. never seen an DH complain how he was dieing cause of preparation use but I ve seen lots that complained about dodge. With this change you kill strafe build for low T and also the CA build. I really hope you are not letting us just with the no brainer 6 mara build which btw is the only T6 viable build we have.. and you do give use equally strong alternatives.
DH keeps getting nerfed, constantly. Even with 5 sentries spaming CA we're not even close to a WD Jade DPS. And we're still being nerfed again.

Before we had two "efficient builds" (I know there are others, dont go telling me you have the same efficiency though, I wont believe you, tried them all myself, they are all really fun, but dont bring them in T6 unless you got the best gear ever a character half as well geared as you would have the same efficiency, anyway...), now that change to Punishment just made the Fire CA build not worth it, so we will all swap to sentries build.

Sigh... I'd really like other elements to have just A CHANCE to be as efficient as fire, and some DH skills should definitely get a chance because besides CA, we have litterally no damage compared to other classes, and lets be honest, CA is not even close to earthquake barbs and jade wds.

Im feeling like Blizzard hates us DH since they nerfed Nether Tentacles back in the first days of the vanilla version haha.

Anyway, lets play with a sentry build. Last one standing.

Edit : Oh and btw, I used to be playing DH because they needed skill and a lot of mobility/awareness to be played well. Now its press a button, fall asleep, wake up, pick your loot, repeat. Please... n.n
I was finally having fun in Diablo again with my Demon Hunter. With burst damage and then moving fast to the next pack and killing them. With the help of the new gear, Preparation (Punishment) and the passive Night Stalker, I was able remove my hatred generators and use multishot to gain hatred instead. What a cool way to play!!!

And now with this nerf, its back to the drawing board or maybe sadly to just put the DH to rest like i did with my Barb...

I can only see one thing that could fix this nerf, its to lower the cost of the hatred spenders. DH should be fun, fast and bursty to play. Not waiting for the hatred all the time or go with the mandatory marauders set...
I have Hate cost issues even WITH Preparation-Punishment, can you imagine how it is without this skill? (Cluster Arrow of course, what else ;) )
The build was OK, besides the constant ressource cost issues it was fun. But it seems after the patch I need a new buld, no way to feed Cluster arrow with that nerf, even with the "Reaper's Wraps" Bracers. And I talk only about T1 but I guess the nerf will be due various T6 24/7 gamers that abuse every game mechanic so normal player have to suffer. Ok, that's not a D3 only issue (stuff like that happens basicly every patch in Path of Exile for Example) but it's sad that you have to trash an entire build. Hm, anything else valid for DH's besides Cluster Arrorw?

...and since when are Sentries viable? Did I missed something O.o"
18/06/2014 14:38Posted by FusionPower
various T6 24/7 gamers that abuse every game mechanic so normal player have to suffer


Wow, its super easy to play in T6, just needs a bit of dedication, dont blame good geared people. We're even like the most hit by these nerfs, as it might force us to make a completely whole build while players that are not T6 yet didnt finish it yet, less frustrating.

18/06/2014 14:38Posted by FusionPower
...and since when are Sentries viable? Did I missed something O.o"


Are you a dinosaur or sth ? Sorry... Get a full Marauder set with a RoRG if possible and Tasker and Theo. Then get fire damage on whats left (amulet, bracers, SoJ) and use sentries with CA - loaded for bear and Multishot - arsenal.

Reminds me of one time I was talking on someone on Skype and soloing a rift in T6, set my sentries, and alt-tab'd to talk. Did that many times, the most funny part was when I came back and saw the guardian had spawned and died. :')

But yeah, that build is completely retarded, DH are meant to be mobile and skilled, not immobile and asleep. My DH just feels like ANYTHING but a DH atm...
18/06/2014 14:38Posted by FusionPower
...and since when are Sentries viable? Did I missed something O.o"

Well the marauders set with the senteries build is an ok build and it works just great, but why should there only be one good build out there. Nerfing Preparation (Punishment) will make all other good builds disappear and only keep one build viable unless they come up with something insanely good...
18/06/2014 14:56Posted by Kulan
18/06/2014 14:38Posted by FusionPower
...and since when are Sentries viable? Did I missed something O.o"

Well the marauders set with the senteries build is an ok build and it works just great, but why should there only be one good build out there. Nerfing Preparation (Punishment) will make all other good builds disappear and only keep one build viable unless they come up with something insanely good...


Man, that insanely good build is Sentry build. The other good build is CA and it's getting nerfed

18/06/2014 14:38Posted by FusionPower
...and since when are Sentries viable? Did I missed something O.o"


Welcome to 3 months ago
DH should now be renamed as "engineers". As all we're gonna use are sentries anyway.
A wave of stupidness has come to Blizzards D3 hq's please call a doctor.
18/06/2014 14:55Posted by Shaa

Are you a dinosaur or sth ? Sorry... Get a full Marauder set with a RoRG if possible and Tasker and Theo. Then get fire damage on whats left (amulet, bracers, SoJ) and use sentries with CA - loaded for bear and Multishot - arsenal.

Yes, I'm old. ^^"
I know this set of course but I don't have it. I do not even have found a single Grandeur Ring yet by the way. It's not like you can have set items in the minute you need them, right? ;) I do not farm that much so I guess it will take a while to get this set comple. I already want Tasker & Theo for my WD since months! Of course nothing drops (from Kadala). At least I have Cindercoat as a gift from a friend. Not that such good Items ever drop for me.
With the right Items, everything is of course much easier in D3. But until you have them, you need to deal with the stuff you've found. So no Über-Sentry-Build for me right now and no Multi-Wolf-pets too.
With all the recent buffs on droprates, its not hard to get full marauder at least. Tasker & Theo are a bit harder ofc, like a Calamity. And the ring... Oh well... Farming cache-only legendaries is the most frustrating thing they ever brought to this game, after these DH nerfs, obviously.
I really think you need to address the fact that our hatred generators simply do not generate enough hatred to be worth a spot on the skill bar in many circumstances.

This is why you find players abusing mechanics like preperation and punishment, because its a much faster and more efficitient way to generate hatred. Infact, as it currently is it doesnt feel broken, it feels correct!

You might also see players stacking crazy amounts of resource cost reduction just to be able to shoot our hatred spenders enough to feel "normal".

Then comes along the Sentry builds with 6 Mara set.... this is where we all have ended up to deal enough damage on higher Torments. As mentioned above, its a cool build, but we dont have a lot of variety at this level and this change to prep/punishment steers us in the direction of ONLY using this build at higher torments...

I think you need to look into the real problem and not just one symptom... We are avoiding hatred generators because they are not good enough in general...

I did write about this in my comprehensive BETA review of the DH... i'm not saying you should always listen to me and i'm always correct, but i'm just saying ive been chatting about this problem long long before this and now you still don't truly understand the "problem".

DH is a great class, and hell, we're much better now then where we were in D3V.... but we still have many things that need tweaking that could make the DH much better.

Sorry for rambling :P
18/06/2014 10:01Posted by Vaneras

We know this changes builds and the gameplay pattern for some Demon Hunters. We’re also working hard to adjust other skills as well as introduce Legendary items both in this patch and constantly in the future in order to continue opening up new and exciting ways to play.
How about you introduce something that is an "exciting way to play" and isn't yet another fire Cindercoat build? How is it for example that there are zero ranged legendary weapons that add + elemental skill?

I know everyone loves to kill stuff while yelling BY FIRE BE PURGED but how come we have a world where Cindercoat and Magefist exist and nowhere near as good legendaries for other elements?

Also do you plan to add enough Poison / Cold abilities for DH to be able to craft a build out of it? Because if not maybe it would be better to convert them all to Fire / Lightning / Physical to just open a few more options for other builds, if you don't plan to support full Poison or Cold.
now "that" is the real punishment..
This change will make DH total garbage!!!
Whoever is responsible for this idea should be demoted to janitor as he has no idea about the game nor DH class, pls quit your job. This change will destroy Cluster Arrow build which is the only reasonable way to play DH on T6. Sentry build is bad alternative as it is stationary DMG. Without CA DH will not be able to speed rift and will be useless to any GOOD group.
I really wish to think that a human being can't be unintelligent enough to think that nerfing prep-punishment will give us T6 builds other than M6, even though prep-punishment is completely unrelated to a typical M6 build...

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