What to reroll on Rucksack. Marauder Sentry DMG.

Demon Hunter
Can someone correct me or confirm my calculations are correct?

I have been trying to work out overall damage when using the Marauder set. Particularly, I was interested in stat I should reroll for the Rucksack, which is between +XX% Sentry and +XX% Cluster Arrow damage. I have read a post that sort of clarifies some numbers but this post is from 2016. The link to the post:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20742474552#post-5

I was wondering how the numbers work in patch 2.6.1 and seazon 14. I tried to do calculations but they are suspiciously high (O_o)! I considered how +DMG would be applied, e.g. M6 bonus, M4 Bonus, +100% sentries DMG, etc. I deliberately ignored CHD, CHR, +% Elemental DMG, +% from granades.

If you are through the numbers, it looks that the damage when +100% sentry dmg is rerolled on Rucksack is higher: 907,100% vs 887,400%. Sentries also do twice as much damage and this is important factor when wiping trash is concerned, which is important factor in a group.

Can you tell me what you think about it?

Thanks.

I. Overall damage with +100% Sentry on Rucksack and +30% Cluster Arrow on items.

1) Damage done by all 5 Sentries:

- +850% by Cluster Arrow (Loaded for Bear)
- +30% of CLuster Arrow from items (Boots, Head)
- +300% of Cluster Arrow from Manticore
- +100% of Any skill casted by a Sentry
- M4 bonus of a sentry 400%

DMG by SENTRIES =
. = CA_DMG * CA_ITEMS_BUFF * MANTICORE * SENTRY_XX% * M4_BUFF * NO_SENTRIES
. = 850% * 30% * 300% * 100% * 400% * 5
. = 850% * (1 +30/100)*(1 + 300/100)*(1 + 100/100)*(1 + 400/100)*5
. = 850% * 1.3 * 4 * 2 * 5 * 5
. = 850% * 260
. = 222,000%


2) Damage done by a player:

- +850% by Cluster Arrow (Loaded for Bear)
- +30% of CLuster Arrow from items (Boots, Head)
- +300% of Cluster Arrow from Manticore
- +3000% M6 bonus per sentry

DMG by PLAYER =
. = CA_DMG * CA_ITEMS_BUFF * MANTICORE * M6
. = 850% * 30% * 300% * 3,000% * 5
. = 850% * 1.3 * 4 * 155
. = 850% * 806
. = 685,100%


3) Total damage:

DMG_BY_SENTRIES + DMG_BY_PLAYER
= 222,000 + 685,100 = 907,100% (Cluster Arrow Loaded Bear)


II. Overall damage with +45% Cluster Arrow damage on all items.

- +850% by Cluster Arrow (Loaded for Bear)
- +45% of CLuster Arrow from items (Boots, Head, Rucksack)
- +300% of Cluster Arrow from Manticore
- M4 bonus of a sentry 400%

DMG by SENTRIES =
. = CA_DMG * CA_ITEMS_BUFF * MANTICORE * SENTRY_XX% * M4_BUFF * NO_SENTRIES
. = 850% * 45% * 300% * 0% * 400% * 5
. = 850% * (1 +45/100)*(1 + 300/100)*(1 + 0/100)*(1 + 400/100)*5
. = 850% * 1.45 * 4 * 1 * 5 * 5
. = 850% * 145
. = 123,250%


2) Damage done by a player:

- +850% by Cluster Arrow (Loaded for Bear)
- +45% of CLuster Arrow from items (Boots, Head)
- +300% of Cluster Arrow from Manticore
- +3000% M6 bonus per sentry = 15,000%

DMG by PLAYER =
. = CA_DMG * CA_ITEMS_BUFF * MANTICORE * M6
. = 850% * 45% * 300% * 3,000% * 5
. = 850% * 1.45 * 4 * 155
. = 850% * 899
. = 764,150%


3) Total damage:

DMG_BY_SENTRIES + DMG_BY_PLAYER
= 123,250 + 764,150 = 887,400% (Cluster Arrow Loaded Bear)
A lot of numbers. Don't understand much. Your basic question was if you should roll 100 sentry to 15 CA in a standard M6 build (not N6/M4) - right?

CA damage can be on Boots, Head - 30%.
Sentry damage can be on Chest, Shoulder (30%) and 100% on rucksack.

So let's simplify it a little bit - we don't need manticore or other factors that are the same in both scenarios. Makes it just more comlicated.

M6 base is 5x3000%+5x400%.
Or 5*31+5*5=180

Standard setup would be
5*31*1,3+5*5*2,3*1,3=276,25

Now roll 100% sentry to 15 CA
5*31*1,45+5*5*1,3*1,45=271,875

Is that correct or did I miss something?

Difference is very small - sentries might be away and not doing anything. On the other hand 5 sentries will proc more AD hits. I'd say it doesn't matter.
And getting a perfect rucksack where you can reroll sentry damage - good luck.
Variant 2 is probably stronger - although it has less paper damage. Because in the end you have to deal the damage - sentries just add a nice bonus.

Besides that - M6 vanilla is a weak build right now. N6/M4 will get ~15 levels higher.

N6/M4 does:
3500%x5x400%+3500%.
36*5*5+36=936

With sentry + CA bonus:
36*5*5*2,3*1,3+36*1,3=2737,8
~10 times more damage^^

One level higher is about 16% more enemy life.
So 1,16^15 - ~9,2 times more damage needed. May be not exact -could be 14-17 levels or so. Dunno. Maybe it is just 15% more enemy life per level. But that isn't the point.Vanilla M6 is just very weak and just a fun build or for t13 speeds if you run N6/M4.
Yes, I meant standard M6. My numbers are slightly different, even though I exclude CA bonus (850%) and extra damage from Manticore but it does show sentry would give "slightly" more damage, in theory at least.

And thanks for point out N6/M4. I came across this build a couple of times but have never considered it. It looks like N6/M4 mix gives more damage and toughness comparing to standard M6. Perhaps it is time to try it :)
I think you forgot this:

23/07/2018 23:31Posted by Kindergarten
Sentry damage can be on Chest, Shoulder (30%) and 100% on rucksack.
OK. I collected all pieces for N6/M4 and tested on 90-95.

I find it as hard as standard M6. 94 is when I am lucky to complete GR on time but I definitely hit the wall while doing 95. I can see the damage would be alright but, as to M6, toughness is still the problem for me. I am testing it on seasonal char and chose Fire over Cold due to gear I have but I don't think it should change much. I am wondering about this build because people claim this build to be GR 115+ etc. On youtube, one of the streamers completed 100 without major problems.
Run Cold! It is way easier! And it will change a lot.
Even with less elemental damage you'll get higher with Cold.

Fire works only in certain levels with the right mobs - you need huge pulls so that grenades do damage (you probably should use grenade passive then - dunno). Needs a lot of player skill to herd the enemies correctly, know when to skip and how to pull into open areas. And probably more AD on gear. You can't also be that far away as you need to be closer for herding.

Cold freezes enemies a lot - so surviving isn't that hard. Just stay as far away as possible (Zeis) - you can even be on the next screen. Rockets autohit. You don't even have to aim correctly, as long as sentries can hit and are not behind a wall/in another room. If you still struggle you can use Garwulf (ideally cube FB). It is not far from old autoshot sentry build. Place sentries correctly and stay away to not get hit.

And ignore those 110+ dudes. Look at LB 500-1000 players. True for most builds/classes. Get at least in the LB and then you try the push variants. Have seen this on UE MS too. People struggle with 80 and run stricken + Fullbroadside - because #1 does so or guides copy the top 10 players, while 99% play the build differently.

Cold is way more reliable. If you want to waste hundreds of keys to push into topranks, you can use fire. That can make sense - if you can clear 105+ and you can't advance in the LBs anymore, as your gear is close to max, augments are close to max and you have tried it several times.

Here is a 107 GR, which shows how it works. Gear is far from perfect (RoV on Nat Slayer) and the player wrote it was his first 107 try - not fishing for that. Level isn't that great, just 105 gems and 95-100 augments. More paragon and sheet damage than you - but you can do 100 with your gear (maybe a few changes needed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKKmhL73Sdo
I changed to cold and you right in saying it works better but still I can't go beyond 96. I must still be doing it wrong :p Garwulf gives a lot more toughness but i think i need more bonus on ancients to go further. I'll watch the video again.
Thanks a lot for your comments and help.
Why do you have PE equipped? Use trapped! PE does nothing in this build.

Frostburns are also really strong - there is some bug and they double dip in this build - so they add 2x20 cold damage and also add nice freeze.

If you do 99 without augments - you are on the right track. Learn how to play the build and start with augmenting.

And use diamonds - not emeralds in gear.

Make that up with augments. Huge toughness buff so you don't need Garwulf. Zoey - a high leg roll is needed (especially if you run Garwulf). 8,9-9,0 or so. Ok to use a non ancient instead if your ancient is so bad. Most of your gear is pretty good. Augment it and you'll do 105 in the season.
29/07/2018 22:56Posted by Kindergarten
Why do you have PE equipped? Use trapped! PE does nothing in this build.

Oooo O_o thanks for pointing this out. Somehow I meant to equip a gem to increase pet damage!

29/07/2018 22:56Posted by Kindergarten
If you do 99 without augments - you are on the right track. Learn how to play the build and start with augmenting.

I am getting better at least in not dying as often :p and also getting to understand the build. It still feels like a lack of enough damage to pass 97. Probably this is something to do with selecting wrong packs. I am going to keep practising this build. I like it. Thanks.
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