Sweeping Wind damage calculation (AS/Crit)

Monk
I did not find a statisfying answer anywhere on the forums so i ran some tests today and it turns out that Sweeping Wind does indeed scale with attack speed and crit chance/crit damage.
(If you just want the formula to calculate your own Sweeping Wind Dps output and don't care about about the math simply skip to the end.)

For all interested or doubting here is what i did:
I bought two low level weapons with the same Dps but different attack speeds.
- 1h Fist Weapon: 17,5 Dps / 1.40 AS
- 2h Staff: 17,5 Dps / 1.00 AS

I then took off all equipment that increases attack speed because AS on armor impacts Dps more on fast weapons than it does on slower ones. No other equipment affix scales differently depending on weapon AS afaik.

Thus equipping either of the two weapons resulted in the exact same Dps of 219,08 in my character sheet, while i had an attack speed of 1.40 with the fist and 1.00 with the staff.

I then proceeded to "Old Tristram Road" in act 1 Hell where i pulled a single "Risen" mob with 8347 Hp and and let myself be hit by him (I was not wearing thorns gear so he was harmed by nothing). then i activated Sweeping Wind with the Blade Storm glyph and waited until it expired (6s) after which i noted the new HP value of the mob. I did that 16 times for the fist weapon and 15 times for the staff.

Staff:
-Total damage (during 15*6s of Sweeping Wind): 3926
-Average damage per SW activation (6s): 261,7333
-Average Dps: 43,6222
-Average damage Per "Tick": 21,8111 (The Game shows a tick over the enemy every 0,5s)

Fist:
-Total damage (during 16*6s of Sweeping Wind): 4250
-Average damage per SW activation (6s): 265,625
-Average Dps: 44,2708
-Average damage Per "Tick": 22,1354

The difference between the Dps values of the Staff (43,6222) and Fist (44,2708) is merely 1,465%! This negligible difference obviously is a result of measurement inaccuracy being created by fluctuations in the actual damage output. I would guess that these fluctuations are a result of the min-max damage ranges of the weapons and/or by hidden critical hits of Sweeping Wind.

Going by my results i am actually pretty convinced that Sweeping Wind damage is affected by your critical hit chance and critical hit damage. During my tests i had a critical hit chance of 14% and critical hit damage of +50% which statistically would increasy my damage output by 7%.. Since we know that the the formula of the Dps value shown in the character sheet is: [(WeaponLowerRange+WeaponUpperRange)/2]*[WeaponBaseAS*(1+WeaponPercentASBonus)]*[1+(Dex/100)]*[1+(CritChance*CritDamage)]And since we also know for sure that Weapon Dps, Weapon AS and Dex affect Sweeping Wind Dps directly we can simply take 20% (because i was using the 20% rune) of the Dps that was shown in my character sheet during these tests and the result would be the Dps of a Sweeping Wind that does scale with crits. Lets see:
219,08*0,2=43,816
Now lets compare that to the average Dps of my tests:
(43,6222+44,2708)/2=43,9465
Seems really close to me. Would crits not scale with Sweeping Wind, it's Dps would have been 7% lower at the value of about 40,1 and thus i take this as proof that it does scale.

Whether hidden crits happen or whether your crit values are just factored in multiplicative to the periodic damage i can not say (though i think it's the latter). But it does not matter because even if it had hidden crits, those would not be counted as crits by skills that proc on crit and because of the periodic damage output nature of Sweeping Wind individual crits would barely be noticed and thus the critical values can as well be factored in multiplicatively for the sake claculating it's average Dps.

As a conclusion here is the formula which i am fairly sure of calculates Sweeping Wind damage accurately:
[(WeaponLowerRange+WeaponUpperRange)/2]*[WeaponBaseAS*(1+WeaponPercentASBonus)]*[1+(Dex/100)]*[1+(CritChance*CritDamage)]*[SWPercentDamage*SWStackCount]
(SWPercentDamage is 20% for the Blade Storm rune and 15% for all other runes.)

For all those less inclined to theorycrafting here the simplified version: Just multiply the Dps shown in your character sheet with 1,6 if you are using Blade Storm rune or with 1,45 if you are using any other rune and the result will be the Dps output of Sweeping Wind at 3 stacks.
Thank you for sharing this with us!
If you want to test out SW damage, it might be best with a low damage weapon with enough Min damage to make a fixed damage range, like 25-25 or something.
This is going to sound dense, but can SW crit? Since I play with WotHF, I get dozens of numbers flying on my screen and it is hard to where the crits come from.
if you look at the tooltip for Sweeping Wind you can see that the % damage adjusts accordingly to your weapon(s). Seems like increases/lowers depending on your weapon speed so it balances out to aprox the same damage.
Does it?

Blade is always 20% for me. :/
10/06/2012 17:12Posted by Bitterness
If you want to test out SW damage, it might be best with a low damage weapon with enough Min damage to make a fixed damage range, like 25-25 or something.


Sadly i am positive that weapons with Min=Max damage can not exist. I read a dataminers thread where he explained that most likely no such affix/min-max combination is possible. I also did a thourough search on the AH just now and was unable to find anything closer than "4-5 dmg". A Min=Max dmg weapon is also not really neccessary since if you want to have more accurate results you just have to increase the number of repititions which will lead to the average of all test results approaching the actual dps infinitely. I was just lazy and did the test in a few minutes, if you think that my results are inaccurate please feel free to test with more repititions yourself and share your results afterwards, there can never be enough theorycrafting. =)

10/06/2012 17:33Posted by Fenris
This is going to sound dense, but can SW crit? Since I play with WotHF, I get dozens of numbers flying on my screen and it is hard to where the crits come from.


SW does not actively crit since it appearently has no individual hits but rather "drains" the enemies life at a certain speed, the game just displays a tick every 0,5 seconds above the enemies heads that sums up how much damage they have taken from SW during the last 0,5 seconds. That is atleast what i am convinced of since it can be seen if you closely look at the enemies health numbers as they do not get lowered in "ticks" but rather constantly spin like crazy at the first digits. This is supported by my observation that the SW ticks displayed by the game do NEVER crit (no yellow numbers). Though my tests indicate that crit increases SW damage. How it does that exactly i can not say but since SW deals periodic damage anyway you can simply multiply your crit chance/dmg with your SW damage. example: you have 10% crit chance and 200% crit damage then your SW damage is increased by 20% flat.

To clarify even though crit does affect SW it cannot proc any effects like "Has a chance to do X on crit/hit", because effects like that can only be procced by skilles that have a LoH coefficient and said "chance" mentioned is in fact exactly the LoH coefficient of that skill. But SW does not proc LoH and does not have such a coefficient.

if you look at the tooltip for Sweeping Wind you can see that the % damage adjusts accordingly to your weapon(s). Seems like increases/lowers depending on your weapon speed so it balances out to aprox the same damage.


I think you are referring to the rune Backlash of Mantra of evasion. I have Diablo 3 open this moment and changing my AS or Crit does not change the values displayed in the tooltip that pops up if i hover my mouse over the skill Sweeping Wind. Maybe you have a different localisation or i missed a patch/hotfix?
Hm, ill check it later. But im pretty sure it was SW since ive never used backlash. Guess I can run a crit test as well since im running 30% + crit
Sadly i am positive that weapons with Min=Max damage can not exist.


There's a poster on these boards using one to test damage calculations.
There's a poster on these boards using one to test damage calculations.


Thanks for pointing that out it would indeed make testing alot easier, i was merely positive and not entirely sure since i based my opinion on a thread of someone claiming that and on a personal search on the auction house. Do you know what type/ level weapon that is, what affixes it has or whether weapons of that kind are available on the auction house/can be farmed easily?
You need 3 things :

- lvl 54+ Character of the class you want to test
- an amulet with the prefix "of destruction" (+min damage) // dirt cheap on AH
- a white weapon (usable with the skills you want to test) with damage range smaller than the amount of +min damage you got from the amulet ... ( normal difficulty is a good place to find such weapons - nighmare 2h hammers also work but monk might not be able to use them)

EDIT -of destruction - can spawn on lvl 53+ level rings also

As long as you remove any other source of +max damage from your equipped items (Effective_Weapon_DamageRange has min damage= max damage) ALL YOUR ATTACKS WILL DO CONSTANT/CONSISTENT DAMAGE making testing various skill interactions trivial...

------

on topic - Sweeping Wind (wizard disintegrate, ray of frost) is not trivial yet because is not simply percent of weapon damage - it also involves weapon speed ...
10/06/2012 18:33Posted by Mizz
Hm, ill check it later. But im pretty sure it was SW since ive never used backlash. Guess I can run a crit test as well since im running 30% + crit


Maybe it was Mantra of Conviction with Submission rune - it does adjust depending on your attack speed - higher attack speed more damage per second.
10/06/2012 17:33Posted by Fenris
This is going to sound dense, but can SW crit? Since I play with WotHF, I get dozens of numbers flying on my screen and it is hard to where the crits come from.

Why else should there be a "cyclone" rune. Gosh guys stop copying builds and test some builds.. if you don#t even know that rune is there... no wonder so much qq
11/06/2012 02:56Posted by DoOmTrAin
Why else should there be a "cyclone" rune. Gosh guys stop copying builds and test some builds.. if you don#t even know that rune is there... no wonder so much qq


Your assumption is wrong, the existence of the Cyclone rune has nothing to do with the crit behavior of Sweeping Wind. Sweeping Wind does NOT crit nor does it proc any "Has a chance to do X on Crit/Hit" and it also does not Proc its own Cyclone rune this i have tested extensivley and you can read it in my post above.

Also i fail to see how this turned into an argument about "copying builds". Please don't be condescending towards people that ask legitimate questions about the topic while giving them wrong answers based on mere assumptions and then even demand from them that they should "test more themselves".
Sorry to bump this old thread, I just want to continue this discussion because Sweeping Winds and Submission mechanics just seem awkward to me.

First of all, can we assume that Sweeping Winds does its 15% (or 20% with rune) weapon damage per second? So basically the tooltip should say that it ticks for 15% (20%) weapon damage per second, since right now it doesn't specify any time at all.

Secondly, why doesn't it work like this with Submission?

Look, I have 219.63 DPS in the tooltip. My char is naked other than Dex/AS gloves, rings and amulet, totalling 520 Dex. Attack speed of the weapon itself is 1.2 (21.6dps spear from a Normal mode vendor), with all the AS from gear it ends up being 1.92.

I pull a mob and activate Sweeping Winds/Blade Storm on him once. In those 6 seconds, it deals 263 damage, so 43.8 dps. That's almost exactly 20% of 219.63, this result was expected.

Now, I pull another mob of the exact same type, activate Mantra of Conviction/Submission, activate timer at the same instant, type down the mobs max hp, wait until Submission kills him, stop timer. With this, Submission deals 593 damage in 20.2 seconds, hence its dps was 29.3. In the tooltip it says that Submission deals 23% weapon damage per second (tooltip scales with IAS). However that's only 13% of 219.63, and this isn't even taking into account that Mantra of Conviction itself increases damage (as well as the first 3 seconds boost to this effect).

I did this test another 5 times and got the same result every time (within ~0.2 difference in dps).

I really don't understand why are these skills so different? What am I missing?
Ah, I think I figured it out.

Took off all the IAS/Dex gear. 1.2 attacks per second, 63.54 DPS. Submission tooltip now says it will deal 14% weapon damage per second.

Sweeping Winds/Blade Storm: 77 damage in 6 seconds = 12.8 dps, as expected.
Mantra of Conviction/Submission: 434 damage in 51.1 seconds = 8.5 dps, expect number was 8.8 dps but this is close enough. I believe with 1.0 attack speed it will be spot on.

So basically, the way Submission scales with IAS is not good enough.
Thaya,

I believe I have figured out why you are seeing the difference and that the numbers you have posted are correct.

From your example above: you have 63.54 dps at 1.2 aps for weapon dmg of 52.95.

Submission does 12% of dps. (The tool tip changes with attack speed but it references weapon dmg) => (.12) * (63.54 dps) * (1.12 mantra dmg bonus) = 8.539 (consistent with the 8.5 you reported)

This can also be calculated using what the tool tip states (14% (really 14.4% as its 12%*1.2) * (52.95 weapon dmg) * (1.12 mantra dmg bonus) = 8.539 the same as the first method.

The net result is that submission does account for attack speed at the proper amount but your original calculation applied the attack speed bonus twice and neglected the mantra dmg bonus.
made this build making sweeping wind the main dmg dealer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0pP_EbINEw&feature=youtu.be
I want to ask how is the CYCLONE damage count?

Do weapon speed affect the damage? (it says 20% weapon damage)

As I use 2 hand weapon, i think higher weapon damage should be stronger, so fewer cyclone but higher damage.

But after watch the above sweeping wind damage, seem the sweeping wind only count main hand DPS...If that is the truth, same DPS + high speed = more wind = higher damage?

Is that the reason for MONK to have as highest speed as possible?

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