WW & Sprint RLTW tick frequency mechanics

Barbarian
I´ve just tested it and it´s actually pretty easy. I have +12% movement speed and can get a 5th. Just try to run around a waypoint in a circle that is a bit larger than the waypoint, try to chain sprints and you´ll see 5. You don´t have to chain sprint, but you should run in a circle/pentagonal shape.

You´ll be using that kind of Sprint in real battles if the group´s not too big. The thing is, the fifth tornado spawns in the last moments of the first. I don´t think it is possible to have up 5 at the same time for three seconds, that´s why it´s not that important to get max movement speed for tornado build. You´re fine with +12% boots. It´s more important how you sprint to maximize the hits on foes (and of course, if you achieve weapon tick breakpoints through IAS).


My whirlwind barb died and currently i am leveling another one.

I do not know why but this one can get 5 tornados even while running strait ahead. not always but often.

i fail to see a pattern here. he does not even have 12% movement boots. Maybe ias or dual wielding is a factor for this?

My other barb (which wasnt able to get 5) was had 1.3 sec attack speed with a shield.
You can get a 5th even with no bonus to movement speed. I think if you run already and then use sprint you have a better shot at it rather than from standing still. It´s kind of random. Tornadoes spawn depending on the distance you covered and are unaffected by attack speed. Attack speed increases the frequency at which tornadoes tick (do damage).

Note that even with WotB up and +12% boots 5 tornadoes are not 100% sure to spawn.
Thanks alot of this topic.

Building an MF gearset for Act-3 farming (Aiming around 120% MF with enough stats to farm Act-3, found some good bargains but getting higher than 120% passive MF without stacks is kinda impossible with my limited budget :P).

I've got a pair of godly boots without Movement Speed and 12% not being mandatory is a huge relief. Would have gimped myself so much with a pair of budget 12% speed boots (Current ones have no MS% but 70AR 50FireRes 200str 120vit 120armor ^^)
Whirlwind Fury cost scaling with aps. It´s actually pretty simple. There´s a set fury cost (in average 5.4-5.5 fury) per whirlwind tick and the faster you hit -> the more ticks -> the more fury.

Here´s the fury cost sequence from 120 max Fury (Animosity):

tick # - fury pool - sequence cost - tick cost
#1 - 114/120 - 6 - 6
#2 - 109/120 - 11 - 5
#3 - 103/120 - 17 - 6
#4 - 98/120 - 22 - 5
#5 - 93/120 - 27 - 5
#6 - 87/120 - 33 - 6
#7 - 82/120 - 38 - 5
#8 - 77/120 - 43 - 5
#9 - 71/120 - 49 - 6
#10 - 66/120 - 54 - 5
#11 - 61/120 - 59 - 5
#12 - 55/120 - 65 - 6
#13 - 50/120 - 70 - 5
#14 - 45/120 - 75 - 5
#15 - 39/120 - 81 - 6
#16 - 34/120 - 86 - 5
#17 - 28/120 - 92 - 6
#18 - 23-22/120 - 98 - 6
#19 - 17/120 - 103 - 5
#20 - 11/120 - 109 - 6
#21 - 5/120 - 115 - 6

Another thing I tested:

Mighty Weapons Master applies proc coefficients! This means that you only have a 20% chance to gain 3 Fury per Tornado tick (and 13% chance per Whirlwind tick). The other 80% of the time you get 0 Fury with tornadoes from Mighty Weapons Master.
Nice work, marked.
Is this a good offhand for the build then or is the DPS too low?

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6267/b0cb0160b47a4a2a8d370a7.png
Well, you got 3 nice affixes on it - almost max life on hit (952/959), +73% CH damage (73/100) and a socket, which means another up to +100% CH damage (173/200 total). An ideal off-hand would also have a lot of strength (strength + str/vit affix). I´d say it´s usable, but if you find one with the similar affixes and strength, go for that.

If you use that weapon, don´t be surprised if you see really low whirlwind ticks half of the time. You´ll do a lot damage with sprint tornadoes though if you have a high dps (base damage) main hand.

Updating the dual-wield weapon breakpoints table, which now includes weapon IAS (on the weapon itself). I´ve calculated only the Dagger breakpoints so far.

DAGGER (+15% dual-wielding IAS)

no weapon IAS = 1.50 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.725 aps = 5.67 ticks per second (tps)
-> +7% IAS = +22% total IAS = 1.83 aps = 6 tps
-> +19% IAS = +34% total IAS = 2.01 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +34% IAS = +49% total IAS = 2.235 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +52% IAS = +67% total IAS = 2.505 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +76% IAS = +91% total IAS = 2.865 aps = 10 tps

2% weapon IAS = 1.53 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.7595 aps = 5.67 tps
-> +4% IAS = +19% total IAS = 1.8207 aps = 6 tps
-> +16% IAS = +31% total IAS = 2.0043 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +31% IAS = +46% total IAS = 2.2338 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +49% IAS = +64% total IAS = 2.5092 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +72% IAS = +87% total IAS = 2.8611 aps = 10 tps

3% weapon IAS = 1.545 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.77675 aps = 5.67 tps
-> +3% IAS = +18% total IAS = 1.8231 aps = 6 tps
-> +15% IAS = +30% total IAS = 2.0085 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +30% IAS = +45% total IAS = 2.24025 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +47% IAS = +62% total IAS = 2.5029 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +71% IAS = +86% total IAS = 2.8737 aps = 10 tps

4% weapon IAS = 1.56 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.794 aps = 5.67 tps
-> +2% IAS = +17% total IAS = 1.8252 aps = 6 tps
-> +14% IAS = +29% total IAS = 2.0124 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +28% IAS = +43% total IAS = 2.2308 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +46% IAS = +61% total IAS = 2.5029 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +69% IAS = +84% total IAS = 2.8704 aps = 10 tps

5% weapon IAS = 1.575 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.81125 aps = 5.67 tps
-> +2% IAS* = +17% total IAS = 1.84275 aps = 6 tps
-> +12% IAS = +27% total IAS = 2.00025 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +27% IAS = +42% total IAS = 2.2365 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +44% IAS = +59% total IAS = 2.50425 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +67% IAS = +82% total IAS = 2.8665 aps = 10 tps

*note: this weapon only needs 1% IAS to achieve the first breakpoint but 2% IAS is the minimum value you can add in the game

6% weapon IAS = 1.59 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.8285 aps = 6 tps
-> +11% IAS = +26% total IAS = 2.0034 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +26% IAS = +41% total IAS = 2.2419 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +43% IAS = +58% total IAS = 2.5122 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +65% IAS = +80% total IAS = 2.862 aps = 10 tps

7% weapon IAS = 1.605 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.84575 aps = 6 tps
-> +10% IAS = +25% total IAS = 2.00625 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +24% IAS = +39% total IAS = 2.23095 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +41% IAS = +56% total IAS = 2.5038 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +64% IAS = +79% total IAS = 2.87295 aps = 10 tps

8% weapon IAS = 1.62 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.863 aps = 6 tps
-> +9% IAS = +24% total IAS = 2.0088 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +23% IAS = +38% total IAS = 2.2356 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +40% IAS = +55% total IAS = 2.511 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +62% IAS = +77% total IAS = 2.8674 aps = 10 tps

9% weapon IAS = 1.635 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.88025 aps = 6 tps
-> +8% IAS = +23% total IAS = 2.01105 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +22% IAS = +37% total IAS = 2.23995 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +38% IAS = +53% total IAS = 2.50115 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +60% IAS = +75% total IAS = 2.86125 aps = 10 tps

10% weapon IAS = 1.65 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.8975 aps = 6 tps
-> +7% IAS = +22% total IAS = 2.013 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +21% IAS = +36% total IAS = 2.244 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +37% IAS = +52% total IAS = 2.508 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +59% IAS = +74% total IAS = 2.871 aps = 10 tps

11% weapon IAS = 1.665 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.91475 aps = 6 tps
-> +6% IAS = +21% total IAS = 2.01465 aps = 6.67 tps
-> +19% IAS = +34% total IAS = 2.2311 aps = 7.67 tps
-> +36% IAS = +51% total IAS = 2.51415 aps = 8.67 tps
-> +57% IAS = +72% total IAS = 2.8638 aps = 10 tps

Notes:
- weapon IAS means increased attack speed on the weapon itself, which multiplies the base attack speed of a weapon resulting in a new weapon aps
- the new aps of the weapon then gets multiplied by the sum of all IAS bonuses from gear and skills
- IAS from gear:
dual-wielding (+15%)
amulet +(2-9%)
rings +(2-9%)
gloves +(2-9%)
helm: Andariel's Visage (+6%), Mempo of Twilight (+6%), Tzo Krin's Gaze (+6%)
bracers: Lacuni Prowlers (+6%)
chest Armor: Tal Rasha's Guardianship (+6%)
mighty Belt: Pride of Cassius (+6%)
boots: Boj Anglers (+6%), Zunimassa's Journey (+6%), Asheara's Lock (+5%)
- IAS from skills:
Wrath of the Berserker (+25%)
Focused Mind (+3%)

----------------------------------------------------------

Related note: a 7% weapon IAS dagger in off-hand with the highest possible dps mace that has 1.20 aps (highest possible base weapon damage at 1.20 aps), has the highest possible damage potential with tornado ticks including the time you pop WotB. You don´t need any more gear/skill IAS for this.

scenario 1
1.20 aps mace +15% dw IAS = 1.38 aps = 4.33 ticks per second
1.50 aps dagger +7% weapon IAS = 1.605 weapon aps +15% dw IAS = 1.84575 aps = 6 ticks per second

scenario 2: let´s pop Wrath of the Berserker
1.20 aps mace (+15% dw IAS + 25% WotB IAS) = 1.20 * 1.40 = 1.68 aps = 5.67 ticks per second
1.50 aps dagger +7% weapon IAS = 1.605 weapon aps (+15% dw IAS +25% WotB IAS) = 2.247 aps = 7.67 ticks per second

Tick frequency improvements:

scenario 1
a) swinging with the mace before sprinting will result in 4.33 ticks per second tornadoes
b) swinging with the dagger before sprinting improves the tornado frequency (and thus damage as well) by 38.46% (18/13 or 6/4.33).

scenario 2
a) just popping WotB and swinging with the mace before sprinting improves your tornado tick frequency by 30.77% (17/13 or 5.67/4.33) compared to unboosted mace tornadoes (scenario 1a), but unboosted dagger tornadoes (scenario 1b) gave you 5.89% more ticks than WotB boosted mace tornadoes (18/17 or 6/5.67).
b) popping WotB and swinging with the dagger before sprinting improves your tornado tick frequency by 27.78% (23/18 or 7.67/5.67) when compared to unboosted dagger tornado frequency (scenario 1b) while improving your tornado tick frequency by 35.29% (23/17 or 7.67/5.67) when compared to WotB mace frequency (scenario 2a).

Note that you can achieve the first scenario with a 6% weapon IAS dagger, but you wouldn´t achieve the dagger breakpoint with WotB in the second scenario, thus you need a 7% weapon IAS dagger.

If anyone finds a better combination that would deal more tornado damage, let me know.
So how much of a benefit would I see switching from mace offhand to a dagger offhand with similar stats? Currently have mace + mace, no other IAS.

I would go from 4.33 tps to 5.67 tps if I'm interpreting the post correctly. How much of a benefit is this? Enough to sacrifice other stats like strength?
Did I really understand correctly that it can use the damage from one weapon and the speed of the other weapon??
so if my main hand is 2000 damage at 0.5 aps (1000dps) and my off hand is 500 damage at 2 aps (also 1000dps) the dps of the tornado scales with 2000 damage at 2 aps (4000 dps)?

Im aware thats only every second strike, the others are still only based on 1000dps, the average output benefits from having uneven weapon speeds.

Edit: maybe I should have read the post to the end before posting, since this was clearly confirmed ;)
Very nice detailed post, good work! :)

You do realise that as soon as anyone digs into and posts useful information in how to maximise the effectiveness of a class - blizzard just use that information to direct the next major nerf?

Post this kind of thing on another web site - NOT ON HERE!


You are pretty naive if you don't think Blizzard employees read other websites with information about their games.
4. When dual-wielding, the number of tornado ticks depends on the attacks per second value of the last weapon swung, it does NOT solely depend on main hand aps.


Wow never knew about that, thanks!

bump
very useful thanks a lot :D
Hey guys currently shopping around for a offhand

atm I have a 1.3 aps axe for my MH

I just a bit confused as what would be better

as in

a dagger with 680 dps - 1.5aps

or

a sword with 780 dps - 1.4 aps

both have same stats

just not sure wether to neglect a lower dps dagger for the speed

Would the sword be better for WW damage or would the dagger still bet more dps?

ive tried some calculaters but not sure if its giving me accurate info due to the build

keep in my im talking Offhand only
the dagger would potentially tick more often if it was the last weapon swung - check the tables to see if you meet the weapon speed breakpoints

the sword would increase your overall dps by a lot more and is almost as fast.

i would always use that sword instead of the dagger for the offhand.
the dagger would potentially tick more often if it was the last weapon swung - check the tables to see if you meet the weapon speed breakpoints

the sword would increase your overall dps by a lot more and is almost as fast.

i would always use that sword instead of the dagger for the offhand.


ok thanks maybe ill try get this sword im after
Great post - extremely informative - very nice work, Nubtro
Thx for the info. Amazing work. requested sticky :)
Please request a sticky, there is no thread on the barbarian forums more important than this.
Thanks Lorenze. The problem is I don´t think if there´s ever been a topic that got stickied...but we can at least try, right?

Reposting new data from the US part of the forums.

Thanks to Twister and the gear he gave me on the PTR plus some stuff I bought, I was able to research two other tornado tick frequency breakpoints.

3.34-3.99 attacks per second = 36 ticks over 3 seconds = 12 ticks per second
4.00 and more attacks per second = 45 ticks over 3 seconds = 15 ticks per second


The highest aps I got to was 4.386:
1.50 aps main hand dagger
18% weapon IAS (->1.77 aps)
+0.24 aps echoing fury (-> 2.01 aps)
+0.03 enchantress
9% andariel´s visage
9% lacuni prowlers
9% gloves
9% amulet
9% ring
9% ring
9% tal rasha´s relentless pursuit
6% pride of cassius
6% zunimassa´s journey (legacy)

I did not have a 9% witching hour (6% cassius instead) nor inna´s temperance (9%) so I was only 12% IAS off of max aps but noone in their right mind would ever use a white dagger like I did, more like 11% weapon IAS dagger should be considered as max:

(1.665 + 0.25 echoing fury + 0.03 enchantress) * 2.27 = 4.41515 aps

I was also able to finally understand how + attacks per second from echoing fury works. It´s a direct weapon aps increase that also gets boosted by IAS from gear. If there´s also IAS on the weapon itself, EF gets added after the initial weapon IAS calculation, so the formula looks like this:

attacks per second = ((base weapon aps * weapon IAS) + (attacks per second from legendaries and enchantress)) * (gear IAS + skill IAS + dual wield IAS)

Updating the first post.

Also note that in 1.0.5 there´s an additional Whirlwind fury cost change other than the 16->10 reduction. In 1.0.4, there´s a flat fury cost (5.4-5.5 fury) per tick no matter what aps you have. In 1.0.5, this changes. Base fury cost is 3 per tick for the lowest aps weapons and the more aps you have the less fury WW costs per tick (for example 2.25 fury per tick on average with 1.77/2.04 aps weapons).
Very nice work :). I'm using it in my spreadsheet to calculate dps and healing from ww/rltw with the proc nerf in mind. Nice to see the update with higher ias.

Some questions though: Even though Frenzy does not affect the stats on the char sheet (for w/e reason), it does definitely affect rltw tornados. Did you not consider this, or why didn't you use Frenzy to get to higher aps levels? It's a bit of a pain to play/test with, but it does seem to help dps quite a bit.

Lastly: what's with the aps-hole in between 2.98 and 3.34? I suppose the previous one should just be extended to 3.34?

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