Diablo 3 - The road NOT taken

General Discussion
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Is there gold sinks in real life? No. How is a bow in a game not "created out of thin air"? Are you saying games can create real money? How come greece is bankrupt? Why dont they just make a money creating game?

lol u kid, greece is in bankrupt cuz they have been spending more then they produced thats it.
In real life u have money sinks, its called "Energy" money transfered to energy we burn, electricity, gas, oil, food, heat. And guess what?! The demend of the global population is rising constantly! So you dont need "dollars bills sinks", actually all economics are doing is printing enough money as close to the demending of the human population supply/demend.
And its related to so many factors u cant even got a clue what ur talking about!

As far as I can see, Diablo community doesnt grow, and surely cant burn energy.
And next time you see a conpany bankrupt, plz tell me again there isnt real money sinks, after US "deleted" trillions of dollars back in 2008.

And thats exactly what u see here, we produce gold, items and gems. And there is no sink, so soon enough, that stocks will be worth nothing
I agree on some points but...
Success/fail chance for socketing and upgrading items is a feature in Aion and it is the main reason most people (including me) quit that game.
I haven't played Diablo 3 for a while now and if Blizzard introduces success/fail chance to socketing or upgrading, it will just give me another reason not to go back. I am a casual gamer and I expect fun and rewarding gameplay from a game (which Diablo 3 certainly lacks), not hundreds of mindless grinding for nothing.

That is just an idea, read my last post a post or two above your one, it explains the reason behind it. It's a good sink in order to get TOP gems but the mid lv gems will have low-zero fail rate (no problem for the avg player).

As for items, really low fail-rate and this area will be accessible after passing very hard trials, things a normal player won't be able to do and the people who hold the economy will.

Is this theory or did you actually see such a Barb? I really don't think even 500mil barbs can survive in MP10 without moving.

Yea, saw few posts of this guy on the general forum don't remember exactly.
My friend has one too, around 7mil EHP unbuffed, 3% hp gained per second when under 20% hp he takes 65% less dmg (barb skills)...
i started a similar thread before reading this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5847957726?page=1#7
which was about the gold sink problem - so I agree there.

I also liked the idea of ubers for upgrades and chance to fail

Benboske is schooling everyone.
BenBoske, you should stop casting pearls before swine, people are just not strong enough to imagine what a randomizing programming routine is, instead they call it "weird mojo" and "bullsh1t". Honestly I'd never thought the mind can be so under curtain. This is like explaining aerodynamics to a savage with an ax.

As another plus to your arguments, people often reported two or even more identical RARE item drops each one short after the first, in same game, posts can be found on these forums. Barb belts for example...

Which would be fine and all, if you looked through the auction house, or diabloprogress and saw copies of multiple items (as in a pair of items for several items, the majority even) instead of multiple copies for a handfull of items.

What aerodynamic has to do with that i cannot fathom, but carbon copy items dropping in short sucession rather proves the duping theory. And its not like probability is complicated either, or if its hard to look up items on the auction house to see just how differently each unique rolls.

What you are doing is overcomplicating an issue that is not complicated at all, with easy to prove facts and math on a highschool level. You are trying to disprove it with something the general observations speak against, thats illogical to implement etc.

I like arguing for the sake of an argument, dont mind ad hominem and so on, but at least think your facts through.

I dont think money sinks would help the market any. What we are observing, is that generally more and more people are able to farm act 3, so the influx of mediocre items is getting more and more, and the value is thusly dropping. Godly items on the other hand, as unlikely as they are to drop are still in the billion gold range.

What we are seeing, is a deflation in item value, rather than gold value. (even tho gold is worth nothing either, due to bots selling it for minimum value in the RMAH) Its a normal development that cant really be stopped.

I agree on all the other points tho.
Much have been said in the past about the things you wrote. Yea, the game needs a real endgame and lots of ideas have been given in the past only so blizz would ignore them. upgrading items for gold was one of those ideas and many supported the idea. I do thing it's a good idea including the fail part but I disagree with item is gone upon fail. I think the upgrade should cost a significant amount of gold and when it fails the gold is gone - that would hurt enough.

I think that the bigger problems are the RMH, rollbacks and dupes - people scam with the rollbacks and i've seen many videos in the past about this. I have no idea how people get hacked unless they try to cheat in some way and they get scammed. if that's the reason than it's the player's fault and blizz shouldn't roll him back - I'm sure that 99% of all "hacks" are because of that and it's also made by scammers who say they got hacked while they gave all the items and gold to a friend or moved it to another account they have only to dupe the items. all the dupe, bots and other cheats are a huge problem in the game because they can make real money out of it.

as for your section 3 I think it's BS - no class is OP in this game. every class in this game has a build that can make you play MP 10 solo all you need to do is gear up accordingly and learn to play. to say that you can gear up a barb for 50 mil and do MP 10 with ease is a joke. looking at your numbers you clearly have no clue about how things work - not even how DH work and it's obvious that you bought your items in stead of playing the game normally as most people do. maybe its another reason to why you are so bored in such a short time.

it would be great if blizzard would listen and use the ideas the players suggest because this game can be so much more than it is now. it would also be great if they fix all the lag issue and FPS drops so we could play hardcore because for many people it's not even an option even tho we have a stable connection (outside of D3 servers).

it would be great if they'll add another act (huge map) or an expansion that will have a huge tower with 10-15 floors in it. each floor will have tons of elites and packs and an end boss. there will be no white mobs only unique mobs so it will be very hard to pass and lots of them in each floor. right now most people don't farm whole acts because it's boring, you need to run a lot without killing things in the middle so a place that is filled with top monsters will be really nice and challenging.

An ID is typically auto-generated by the server.

If I managed to make the server belief that item X, whose ID is 1, dropped again, the server would insert it under ID 2 with the same stats, thus it would acquire legitimate virtual existence.

Wrong: the minute a duplicate would be created the snapshot would give an error in the consistency table.

be that by programming error or on purpose.

We talk about checking the consistency. D2 is not consistent in this case.

Wrong: You have no idea how they dupe or were duping so you can't say that the guy you quoted is wrong.
I would like to point out that when they rolled back the asia server they stated that there were less than 0.01% duplicate items and that their system cant stay stable with duplicates present.
It clearly seems like they can track the duplicate items in the database and if ignored it would result in a system failure.

That leaves us with only account rollback as the reasonable explanation for 10+ duplicates of the same high end gear.
I would like to react on your last point about upgrading an item, which, I think, is a very good idea. This system is also present in an old MMO called Last Chaos (probably more, but this is the only one I've played). As you level up your item it will get stronger, but also changes in appearance, i.e. gets bigger, emits a bigger glow, changes color etc...

You could use stones to upgrade the item. The higher level your upgrade stone (Heaven Stones) were the higher chance the item will remain intact after using it.

This is what we would like to see. Diablo III is a gear driven game and I would like to see some more player control over the items we wear. Not just playing the game and HOPING for a better item. There should be more features which distinguish this game from all the other MMO's out there.
BlackPenguin - RIGHT ON!
I do not agree with the OP.
14/11/2012 00:45Posted by Antaress
I do not agree with the OP.

Care to explain?
12/11/2012 13:45Posted by Shoshi
50mil barb can stand in unlimited amount of monsters + elites in MP 10 and stay full health without moving or attacking at all.

Show me a barb with 50 mil gear who can do mp10 and i`ll give you 50 mil... and if duping a item was posible why 15? is 15 a magic number? why not 21 or 53?
50mil barb can stand in unlimited amount of monsters + elites in MP 10 and stay full health without moving or attacking at all.

Show me a barb with 50 mil gear who can do mp10 and i`ll give you 50 mil... and if duping a item was posible why 15? is 15 a magic number? why not 21 or 53?

So if duping is not possible why are there 14+ copies of like 2-3 echoing furies out of thousands?
Dont be ignorant.
You nailed the whole situation. Hopefully, Blizz will finally listen to its customers and actually make the whole game better and more fun for all of us. I'm not sure why haven't they done anything about it yet, it makes their profit a whole lot lesser. Making the game and its economy better means more customers for them and more usage of the RMAH. Both end up filling their pockets. *wonders away puzzled*
did you ever think about why the weekly maintenance window is so large? Ever wonder why the battle.net account management AND the game itself is put offline at the same time?

It is all too easy to issue a query to check for exact duplicates (it could be time consuming though). It's not that easy to check how each appeared and take appropiate action but can be done. It obviously takes time and I'm pretty sure the bulk of those maintenance hours is spent on tasks like this.

On another note: all of your proof is based on querying diabloprogress which is based on periodically querying web profiles - which are lagging behind and are also buggy, sorry. I routinely check my web profile and it usually show inconsistencies, like my stats reflect some item changes but the actual items shown are the same.
Fight Cheaters harder. Botter, Spammer multiboxers, fight thoose greedy bastards
Why do people mix hack'n'slash games with RPG's?

There is no endgame content in Diablo, and to note, there never was. It's a grindfest with the sole purpose of obtaining the best gear possible for your character to have, while having the chance to do PvP with it. It all comes down to the PvP in Diablo, and that's your motivation for farming the high end gear, to have a smaller chance of being killed by other players who are doing the same thing as you are doing - grinding gear for PvP. Now the problem is that D3 didn't release the PvP patch yet, hence people getting bored and want more PvE content. That's not how the game works, and it never should work like that. Another fair point is the AH/RMAH, which completely changed how the game works. Sure, there was trading in Diablo 2, but it went to a certain extent. In D2, you traded items for items, whether it were runes, actual items, or what not, as gold really didn't matter as it does here in D3. Even the white weapons with 5-6 sockets/ethereal affix were highly valued, and here you don't pick them up because there is no reason to. D3 is a completely different game to what Diablo stands for, but my point being - diablo should never have RPG characteristics. I just hope Blizzard will be fast on releasing the PvP patch so people actually get motivated to play the game as it was supposed to be.
I think the upgrading items using savaging stuff has interesting potential: Not only it creates a gold sink, it also protects the economy from further gold income via vendoring items. We could have an enchantment for each affix, which would replace a RANDOM one present. That would give the chance to risk the typical "OMG, if only it had vit/primary/crit/whatever" and, maybe turn it into a good item. Of course, the risk of destroying one good affix would be there. Just an idea.
Why do people mix hack'n'slash games with RPG's?

There is no endgame content in Diablo, and to note, there never was. It's a grindfest with the sole purpose of obtaining the best gear possible for your character to have, while having the chance to do PvP with it. It all comes down to the PvP in Diablo, and that's your motivation for farming the high end gear

The idea of ENDGAME is that once you finish the game, there is something interesting and challenging for you to do. For me PvP does enter this realm, PvP IS endgame content but as it seems PvP is far from done, and from looking at Jay Wilsons old interviews it seems that PvP will be a minor part of the game and the main interest should be PvE in which case there is nothing interesting to do once you finish Act 4 Kill Diablo for the 4th time.

Show me a barb with 50 mil gear who can do mp10 and i`ll give you 50 mil... and if duping a item was posible why 15? is 15 a magic number? why not 21 or 53?

Read again, didn't say do MP10 i said survive MP10 without doing anything - big difference.
As for duping..

If it wasn't a dupe or a specific rollback multiple times on the same item - then you would at least see 2 more manticores with 1295.2 dps with 183% crit dmg 234 dex and 2 sockets.

But no, there are no other double manticores in the system, only 30 of EXACTLY the same one and none other

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