free to play problem

General Discussion
19/12/2018 20:33Posted by khisana
I think there is: stop giving everyone full dust value, but only for those people, who actually crafted the cards. then give all crafted key cards of a deck that was heavily impacted by the nerfs the full dust refund.

19/12/2018 21:34Posted by khisana
my point is that I don't think that people should get a refund for a card they didn't craft because they didn't spend any dust for a card that's now changed and in essence there is nothing they need to be recompensated for.

I fundamentally disagree with this approach. The main reason is, that it goes against common logic. Let me say an example. When there is new expansion released, people could have their already theory crafted decks in mind, but with release, they do not go to craft their dreamed deck right from start, they first open their packs with hope of luck to open parts of that deck. Or even they may get their wished legendary gifted on release day (recently there is always 1 random gifted legendary with new release) If they would not get that card from packs or gift, they would crafted it anyway.

Now the point is, that purpose of refund is to give player option to get partially back from their investment and do something somehow different. Players who crafted card, will get relevant dust back and they still have things they opened from packs. Players, who did not craft those cards, but opened them in pack or were given the card, have neither of that; would not get dust back and would not have different card being opened instead. Point of this problem could be a little difficult to grasp, so I will try to magnify the scale, so it will be better visible, just like when microscope is used to better see problem, which may not be well noticed without them.

(overexaggerated example on purpose) Imagine hypothetical situation, when there is expansion with only 2 legendary cards with only 2 possible decks to be built, where in both cases, respective legendary is key component of respective deck. Imagine, that one of those decks will be adjusted and refund will be applicable only to people, who did craft legendary card in it and also, that this adjustment will mean, that such deck is much less playable than other one with other legendary card. Those people, who have got adjusted legendary, will not have other unchanged legendary and will neither get refund for changed legendary. Those people, who got other legendary and crafted changed legendary will get refund back and they will still have their originally given legendary to continue with the other deck. I hope, that my point is well visible now, even that with actual HS, where is much bigger number of cards and decks, the problem described there is not so much impactful as in this hypothetical case.

Summary of this is: such suggested approach would strongly affect players, who wanted to have deck with cards, which were later changed, but long before change, those players wanted to have those cards to play with and if they would not open them, they would have crafted them anyway. In the end, they would be "punished for being so unlucky, that they opened their the most desired card from expansion".

19/12/2018 21:34Posted by khisana
of course you're right that netdeckers profit more from that idea, although I'd argue that the non-netdeckers are less dependent on the nerfed cards (again: my speculation and based on prejudices)

That is another reason, why I strongly disagree with such approach. I personally think, that using decks of others (aka so called netdecking) is root cause for one of the most impactful problems of HS, which is ultra harsh environment for beginners and casual players, which even required multiple reactions from Blizzard side and two the most recent ones of them are new players experience (ranks 50-26) and rank 20 floor for players who ever reached rank 15+. I am absolutely fundamentally against any support of players, who are adding to even tougher HS environment and those are exactly people, who are "blindly" crafting decks of others.
20/12/2018 07:29Posted by Ixnay
So playing the netdeck gets me full dust on the cards I crafted for that deck. Playing my own creation gets me nothing for the cards I crafted, sounds like a punish for being creative to me.
now I don't know which part you're criticizing: that only crafted cards get full dust refund or that some cards that weren't nerfed get a dust refund as well?
Motylek, I disagree with your exaggerated example because I feel it isn't relevant here. However your post made me realize that I assumed something which shouldn't be assumed and which potentially would make it abusable (which was mentioned by Ixnay before this whole sub-discussion even started): that people could/would start crafting before opening packs, which would make it a gamble for getting the 'right' cards that later on are nerfed.

I totally didn't see this coming. So my reasoning is likely too naive.
I’m criticising the fact that your plan is that if card A gets nerfed and blizzard deam cards B C and D are effected you wanna give dust for crafted cards A-D but not the rest of the alphabet. Even though that deck has been destroyed as well, it’s just gone from T3 to unplayable rather than T1 to T3 (rough example).
I would like to say one thing. 2 months ago I created shudderwock deck for 16000+ dust from packs bought for REAL money and it is dead now. It was my only deck. And I hope everyone agrees that if you pay a lot and end up having nothing it is not a normal nothing. Of course I can spend a lot of money again to stay competitive but I do not trust this company any more.
20/12/2018 14:45Posted by Ixnay
I’m criticising the fact that your plan is that if card A gets nerfed and blizzard deam cards B C and D are effected you wanna give dust for crafted cards A-D but not the rest of the alphabet. Even though that deck has been destroyed as well, it’s just gone from T3 to unplayable rather than T1 to T3 (rough example).
ok understood.
OK, here's my first "Hearthstone is P2W" comment:

If you felt you needed to play one particular deck, and now you don't want to continue with it because after an update the winrate might change, F2P probably isn't ideal for you. Buy packs until you have what you need.
If you don't invest money, you'll always lack cards to simply copy netdecks. The cool thing in HS is, every archetype has a set of cards that are mandatory, the core. For the rest of the deck you can try to find replacements. So the way find something viable as F2P player is:

1) Care less about winning and ranks, and enjoy playing meme decks that may sometimes work and sometimes not. Never underestimate your advantage of taking the opponent by surprise. Netdecks are strong, but also predictable.

2) Let fate decide what classes you play. Look through deck recipes and netdecks until you find something you don't lack many core cards for. Craft only those and replace others with cards you own anyway. Usually there are 3-5 pretty good decks per expansion that you can build only spending the gold from daily quests.

3) After the release of a new expansion, be patient. Whizbang can help a lot during that time. It takes a few weeks to see what cards are really good. Prefer neutral legendaries: Cards like Lich King, Keleseth, or Baku are versatile and can be used in a whole bunch of different decks.

4) Keep an eye on the metagame and use cards that counter as many popular decks as possible. There are many tech cards that can be great or awful at different times - e.g. Spellbreaker wasn't really a good card for quite a long time, but since the introduction of magnetic mechs and reusable (echo & minions that return them to your hand) buff cards you may even have two of them in a deck today. THE tech card of 2017 and early 2018, Skulking Geist, is almost useless today.

The art of playing HS for free is mainly figuring out what you can do with the subset of cards that luck gave you and yes, that will compromise either your win rate or the variety of decks you can play. There's no way around building your own decks, sometimes with huge differences to the netdecks/recipes you based them on. If you can enjoy tinkering with your collection, F2P is an awesome challenge. If not, invest money.

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